Another US School Attack.

artanevilla · 09-04-2014 05:08PM

There should be a US school attack megathread.

MadsL · 09-04-2014 05:08PM

artanevilla wrote: »

There should be a US school attack megathread.

Oh, are they all identical?

SharpshooterTom · 09-04-2014 05:10PM

MadsL wrote: »

Oh dear...

Oh really, so you think the average person can inflict the same number of deaths with a knife compared to a gun or a semi-automatic (no I'm not an expert on specific guns, bare with me) but I assuming those which can fire multiple rounds rapidly can kill ultimately a lot more people than a person repeating an action swinging a knife around?

artanevilla · 09-04-2014 05:10PM

Well there's a lot of them.

MadsL · 09-04-2014 05:16PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Oh really, so you think the average person can inflict the same number of deaths with a knife compared to a gun or a semi-automatic (no I'm not an expert on specific guns, bare with me) but I assuming those which can fire multiple rounds rapidly can kill ultimately a lot more people than a person repeating an action swinging a knife around?

A semi-auto will fire loudly at best 12-15 rounds per minute before overheating. In a crowd (as happened here) this kid stabbed 20 before anyone really had a clue what was happening.

That said I don't dwell on the most efficient way to kill lots of people, I leave you to that.

DeVore · 09-04-2014 05:18PM

All the same, it would appear no one was killed. If he was armed, that would probably not be true of 20 casualties...

MadsL · 09-04-2014 05:18PM

artanevilla wrote: »

Well there's a lot of them.

There are a lot of repeated topics on AH too, do you want a traveller mega-thread, etc.

MadsL · 09-04-2014 05:20PM

DeVore wrote: »

All the same, it would appear no one was killed. If he was armed, that would probably not be true of 20 casualties...

95% of people shot recover if receiving medical treatment swiftly. Surprising huh?

Stab wounds in the stomach are nasty things to treat however.

dark crystal · 09-04-2014 05:20PM

MadsL wrote: »

In Europe? Whilst there has been no shootings in a school in Ireland, there have been several in the UK with even more restrictive gun laws than Ireland. Your statement doesn't make any logical sense.

It just doesn't make any logical sense to you because you don't agree with stricter laws for gun control, but what I stated was true. You can't even compare the amount of mass shootings in the UK to those in the US - it's nowhere near.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10516913/Interactive-graphic-the-23-US-mass-shootings-since-Sandy-Hook.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/10216955

Anyway, I'm not getting drawn into this argument with you, as it will inevitably be a pointless one given your hardline stance on the issue.

MadsL · 09-04-2014 05:27PM

dark crystal wrote: »

It just doesn't make any logical sense to you because you don't agree with stricter laws for gun control, but what I stated was true. You can't even compare the amount of mass shootings in the UK to those in the US - it's nowhere near.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10516913/Interactive-graphic-the-23-US-mass-shootings-since-Sandy-Hook.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/10216955

Anyway, I'm not getting drawn into this argument with you, as it will inevitably be a pointless one given your hardline stance on the issue.

Your argument is that gun control prevents school shootings. Which is patently untrue and illogical. Examples in Germany and Finland already provided to you demonstrate that.

What is 'hardline' about logic?

SharpshooterTom · 09-04-2014 05:28PM

MadsL wrote: »

That said I don't dwell on the most efficient way to kill lots of people, I leave you to that.

Oh nice, so because you politically disagree with me on the use of guns (I'm not advocating banning all guns btw, only those which cause most deaths quicker than others and thus are probably unecessary for public use) you equate me with somebody who has an interest in seeing massacre's?

Well yeah, if a lunatic is preparing to kill people, I would want him, as a dangerous member of society, to have restrictions on what he possibly can attain that would prevent him from killing as many people as possible and lowering any potential fatalities. Wouldn't that not be sensible?

Wompa1 · 09-04-2014 05:29PM

MadsL wrote: »

In Europe? Whilst there has been no shootings in a school in Ireland, there have been several in the UK with even more restrictive gun laws than Ireland.

How about mass shootings?

The most persuasive argument against gun control I have heard is that you are taking the guns out of the hands of the regular Joe and basically un-arming them while the criminals will be armed. But then I don't see why the answer is that everybody should have guns....it just means get the illegal guns off the streets. It's impossible? No, it's very, very difficult and would take years and years and years but it could be done if people wanted it...people don't want it.

The only argument against gun control that would be legit is, I want my gun and I don't care who has to die for me to keep it.

If it's about the perceived Freedoms of living in America, I'd call BS on that too.

Where I live people don't have to wear helmets when riding a motorcycle. Yet, it's the law to wear a seatbelt in a car.

It's perfectly legal to play the lottery each week or even go to a track and bet but it's illegal to play online poker. You don't see pubs with slot machines or fast food places.

There's so many inconsistencies with policies and this idea of freedom. At some point people need to realize that freedom is a myth, no matter what country you live in. Policies don't have to be seen as evil, they can be shaped to protect the masses and ensure a higher standard of living. In the US people get f**ked beyond belief. It's a pressure cooker which also just happens to have ample prescription drugs being prescribed by crooked doctors and plenty of weaponary available.

The American people work so hard, they deserve much, much better

Gringo180 · 09-04-2014 05:30PM

MadsL wrote: »

Because school shootings never happen in normal countries like Germany or Finland,
.

As your link proves the vast jority of these incidents happens in the states. Out of the top 40 massacres 16 of them have happened in the U.S.

srsly78 · 09-04-2014 05:31PM

Wouldn't have happened if the soldiers had guns.

mikom · 09-04-2014 05:33PM

MadsL wrote: »

Because school shootings never happen in normal countries like Germany or Finland,

Interesting........
The largest ethnic group in the U.S. are German-Americans.

The Diabolical Monocle · 09-04-2014 05:34PM

dilallio wrote: »

Of course the National Riflemans Association (NRA) will come out with a statement that if the victims were armed, this unfortunate incident could have been averted.

lol. didn't take long did it.

the clear solution to violence in society is to keep everyone armed.

guns for all ... and peace on all mankind.

(come to think of it ... why just guns... butcher knives for all, be it a teacher or a judge, open or concealed carry, smaller 'my first butcher knife' for the youngsters)

dark crystal · 09-04-2014 05:44PM

MadsL wrote: »

Your argument is that gun control prevents school shootings. Which is patently untrue and illogical. Examples in Germany and Finland already provided to you demonstrate that.

What is 'hardline' about logic?

I didn't say prevent, you did. I didn't say school shootings, either.

If you're unwilling to compare the statistics, I'm not going to get into an argument with you about what's true and logical and what's not, because it will be futile.

BurnsCarpenter · 09-04-2014 06:04PM

MadsL wrote: »

Your argument is that gun control prevents school shootings. Which is patently untrue and illogical. Examples in Germany and Finland already provided to you demonstrate that.

What is 'hardline' about logic?

Gun control limits the potential for a serious rampage with a high fatality rate. You can't seriously try to deny this.

artanevilla · 09-04-2014 06:11PM

MadsL wrote: »

There are a lot of repeated topics on AH too, do you want a traveller mega-thread, etc.

No but I might make the same joke in a traveller thread.

EyeSight · 09-04-2014 06:16PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

Doesnt surprise me in the slightest, America is one really screwed up country.

Yesterday there was a thread about someone in Ireland smashing a mans head in while he slept in his car. Lets now call Ireland a messed up country :rolleyes:

Tokyo · 09-04-2014 07:37PM

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

I can understand him getting away with stabbing 2 people but 20? Were people just watching him doing it? I know it's easy to say at a keyboard but surely someone could have tackled him or something.

A few years ago I was working in a police academy abroad, where the officers were undergoing training under the guidance of instructors from the US. I used to get called in now and again to play hostage, bad guy etc for various scenarios, and eventually went through the training myself because I had the opportunity and, well, it was fun.

One of the most interesting scenarios I remember was a call to a domestic disturbance, and involved an irate pregnant woman who was waving a knife about the place, standing 20 or so feet away. Who would suddenly lunge forward with the knife. 9 times out of 10, for a person not used to the scenario, the woman would get to the trainee with knife in hand before the trainee would get the gun unholstered. The scenario was to illustrate the 21 foot rule. Now take that same knife wielding person and drop them in the middle of a group of students, and I can easily see how she would stab four or five people before anybody would even notice, and slash out afterwards at a panicked crowd of people busy running for cover.

MadsL wrote: »

Just a question, but if a veteran were one of the teachers in this school and was allowed to concealed carry a firearm during his/her working day, and was present when this happened, would 20 people have been stabbed with a knife?

I used to teach, and remember the horror story about a teacher who was attacked with an axe during a meeting with a parent. Teachers are prohibited from having the means to defend themselves, even if they have been trained and are legally carrying in the State for which they hold a CCW licence. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Interesting video here about an experiment done a few years ago, where they armed students of various experience levels and simulated a school shooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s#t=27

Fact is, for the kind of crisis response you're describing, that person would have to be continuously in training. From personal experience, having seen the level of safety or lack thereof exhibited by shooters in gun ranges in the US that I've shot at, most people wouldn't have any training, even those with a CCW permit.

Hitchens · 09-04-2014 07:49PM

did anyone call for knives to be banned yet?

Lingua Franca · 09-04-2014 07:50PM

One of my friends' children was home sick from that school today, and those are some of her friends in hospital. Her mother has never been so glad to have a sick child!

All of the injured are expected to recover, thankfully.

kowloon · 09-04-2014 09:11PM

Has anyone blamed computer games yet?

MadsL · 09-04-2014 09:19PM

dark crystal wrote: »

I didn't say prevent, you did. I didn't say school shootings, either.

If you're unwilling to compare the statistics, I'm not going to get into an argument with you about what's true and logical and what's not, because it will be futile.

Are you willing to consider the population size difference, the income inequality difference and the US constitution, because otherwise your 'statistics' are pretty pointless.

MadsL · 09-04-2014 09:20PM

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

Gun control limits the potential for a serious rampage with a high fatality rate. You can't seriously try to deny this.

One word. China.

MadsL · 09-04-2014 09:23PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

As your link proves the vast jority of these incidents happens in the states. Out of the top 40 massacres 16 of them have happened in the U.S.

And the majority didn't happen in the US.

mikom · 09-04-2014 09:36PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

As your link proves the vast jority of these incidents happens in the states. Out of the top 40 massacres 16 of them have happened in the U.S.

MadsL wrote: »

And the majority didn't happen in the US.

Yes, indeed.

Probably a better way to put it would be.....

Out of the top 40 massacres, 16 of them have happened in the U.S, an area with approximately 5% of the worlds population.
.
.
.

duckman!! · 09-04-2014 09:37PM

Typical, ban guns and it will stop mass killings...guns don't kill people, people kill people!
If they don't have a gun to use then they will use a knife,
If they don't have a knife to use then they will use a baseball bat etc.

If a person wants to hurt another person they will use anything they can, so banning guns will do fcuk all!!!!!

dark crystal · 09-04-2014 09:42PM

MadsL wrote: »

Are you willing to consider the population size difference, the income inequality difference and the US constitution, because otherwise your 'statistics' are pretty pointless.

Lol, of course they are.

Another US School Attack.

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