If there were a referendum tomorrow, would you leave the EU?

wretcheddomain · 06-04-2014 06:38PM #1

Over the past few weeks there have been several debates in the UK between the UKIP leader Nigel Farage and the Lib Dem's Nick Clegg over membership of the EU. I think Farage makes some excellent points and the debates are certainly worth a watch if you haven't seen them already.

Based on this, I think the European project has gone too far in every political respect; whether it comes to refusing to accept referenda results, installation of unelected politicians as leaders of Europe, gradual siphoning off democracy, and many other obvious but equally important shortcomings.

All other things being equal (assuming a normal economy etc.), would you relinquish membership of the EU if you had a referendum due to its encroaching political effects?

My name is URL · 06-04-2014 06:41PM

No.. that would be an utter disaster for Ireland

wazky · 06-04-2014 06:44PM

My name is URL wrote: »

No.. that would be an utter disaster for Ireland

Because everything at the moment is peachy.

wretcheddomain · 06-04-2014 06:45PM

Well, to be fair, the example I raised is meant to focus on the political implications of leaving or staying in the EU.

Yes - tomorrow wouldn't be ideal from an economic standpoint, but the reference to "tomorrow" was meant in an exaggerated way to focus on the political aspects which will be here a lot longer than any economic effect.

STEINBERG · 06-04-2014 06:54PM

My name is URL wrote: »

No.. that would be an utter disaster for Ireland

would you care to explain why? because if you ask me it would be the best decision ever made

Rothmans · 06-04-2014 06:55PM

Things are finally starting to look up, so lets leave the EU and potentially cut off a significant bulk of international trade and foreign direct investment.

Makes sense

My name is URL · 06-04-2014 06:55PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Well, to be fair, the example I raised is meant to focus on the political implications of leaving or staying in the EU.

Yes - tomorrow wouldn't be ideal from an economic standpoint, but the reference to "tomorrow" was meant in an exaggerated way to focus on the political aspects which will be here a lot longer than any economic effect.

Leaving the EU would also mean that we'd lose the protections afforded to us under EU laws and its courts. The economical ramifications of leaving is just tip of the iceberg stuff.

wazky wrote: »

Because everything at the moment is peachy.

What's your point? I never suggested things were perfect or even close to it. Do you think we'd be better off we were not part of the EU?

longhalloween · 06-04-2014 06:58PM

No because I like being able to work and travel unrestricted in the EU.

STEINBERG · 06-04-2014 06:58PM

Rothmans wrote: »

Things are finally starting to look up, so lets leave the EU and potentially cut off a significant bulk of international trade and foreign direct investment.

Makes sense

why do you think that all that trade would be cut off? of course it would''nt people seem to think that because we are part of the EU that it is like some special club where we cant do anything outside of it.... complete bull... if anything international trade and investment would increase

06-04-2014 06:58PM

No, personally living in Austria it would make no sense for me to vote for either Ireland or Austria to leave the EU (not that I could vote anyway)

Rothmans · 06-04-2014 06:59PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Well, to be fair, the example I raised is meant to focus on the political implications of leaving or staying in the EU.

Yes - tomorrow wouldn't be ideal from an economic standpoint, but the reference to "tomorrow" was meant in an exaggerated way to focus on the political aspects which will be here a lot longer than any economic effect.

It's a bit ridiculous asking would we leave the EU, but to completely disregard the primary reason why the EU was formed in the first place though.

longhalloween · 06-04-2014 07:00PM

STEINBERG wrote: »

if anything international trade and investment would increase

Why?

Banjoxed · 06-04-2014 07:00PM

Yay to Ireland leaving the EU - that is of course if you want Ireland to have a toilet currency and selling everything off to the Russians and Chinese in a firesale.

A carpetbagger's wet dream.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 06-04-2014 07:00PM

I actually think the European project hasn't gone far enough yet. We need a full federal states of Europe in to the future. Those of us who lived pre Common Market days would hate to see Europe not achieve it true potential.

wretcheddomain · 06-04-2014 07:01PM

Rothmans wrote: »

It's a bit ridiculous asking would we leave the EU, but to completely disregard the primary reason why the EU was formed in the first place though.

You've missed the point. The point of this debate is meant to focus on the formation of a political élite who, year on year, are absorbing yet more powers that curb away at our sovereignty.

The point of the example is to assume economic stability for one moment - and focus on this encroachment and whether or not people are satisfied with it.

Rothmans · 06-04-2014 07:02PM

STEINBERG wrote: »

why do you think that all that trade would be cut off? of course it would''nt people seem to think that because we are part of the EU that it is like some special club where we cant do anything outside of it.... complete bull... if anything international trade and investment would increase

Of course it would.

The EU has essentially brought down all barriers to trade among member states. If we were to succeed, then those barriers would be brought back up again, making trade with Ireland nonviable among many EU member states.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 06-04-2014 07:02PM

STEINBERG wrote: »

why do you think that all that trade would be cut off? of course it would''nt people seem to think that because we are part of the EU that it is like some special club where we cant do anything outside of it.... complete bull... if anything international trade and investment would increase

That's the most twisted and misinformed logic I have heard in a long time.

STEINBERG · 06-04-2014 07:03PM

longhalloween wrote: »

Why?

why? because we wouldnt be tied to the rules that the EU seem to like to empower on countries....... I would love to see how Ireland would have feared if we had not joined the EU... people seem to think that ohh it was great because of this that and the other,, but it seems this that and the other has this country and half its EU counterparts in finacial ruin.. but sure its all a good thing nontheless.. stop trying to pull a fast one.

we are better off out of the EU period

Rothmans · 06-04-2014 07:04PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

You've missed the point. The point of this debate is meant to focus on the formation of a political élite who, year on year, are absorbing yet more powers that curb away at our sovereignty.

The point of the example is to assume economic stability for one moment - and focus on this encroachment and whether or not people are satisfied with it.

That makes no sense, you are completely disregarding the purpose of the 'European Economic Area'

Lou.m · 06-04-2014 07:05PM

No we would lose the right to do free trade in the Eurozone the markets would react badly to the uncertainty we would still have to pay back the guarantee etc. We would lose our currency and a new one would not have market confidence. We would lose the right to travel and work in EU countries. Our tourist industry would suffer. Many companies would leave as we would not be an EU country. We would lose the right to appeal to the EU court of justice and it is less corrupt than ours. We would have to resort to even more inter-governmentalism than we do now rather than supranationalism. Inter-governmentalism suits a small country less than supranationalism. We are not Norway we have no oil and anyway Norway had to implement most EU laws anyway to do business with them.

wretcheddomain · 06-04-2014 07:07PM

I feared this would happen - the focussing on economic arguments when the point of the debate is to discuss the viability or otherwise of the political union that's currently being played out.

As we've seen with the situation in Ukraine, the political union is becoming so strong that these élite are now determining a EU 'foreign policy'. I personally don't appreciate the concept nor do I think this trajectory is an appropriate one to take.

STEINBERG · 06-04-2014 07:07PM

Rothmans wrote: »

Of course it would.

The EU has essentially brought down all barriers to trade among member states. If we were to succeed, then those barriers would be brought back up again, making trade with Ireland nonviable among many EU member states.

Why? what purpose would that have? just because we would not be in the EU means nobody would trade with us? please man stop with the buffonery

longhalloween · 06-04-2014 07:07PM

STEINBERG wrote: »

why? because we wouldnt be tied to the rules that the EU seem to like to empower on countries....... I would love to see how Ireland would have feared if we had not joined the EU... people seem to think that ohh it was great because of this that and the other,, but it seems this that and the other has this country and half its EU counterparts in finacial ruin.. but sure its all a good thing nontheless.. stop trying to pull a fast one.

we are better off out of the EU period

Yeah, Bring back the Sugar Beet!

STEINBERG · 06-04-2014 07:08PM

longhalloween wrote: »

Yeah, Bring back the Sugar Beet!

such great insight into the discussion!! i almost feel sorry for you

06-04-2014 07:09PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I feared this would happen - the focussing on economic arguments when the point of the debate is to discuss the viability or otherwise of the political union that's currently being played out.

As we've seen with the situation in Ukraine, the political union is becoming so strong that these élite are now determining a EU 'foreign policy'. I personally don't appreciate the concept nor do I think this trajectory is an appropriate one to take.

Out of interest who are the elite? Like can you post some names?

wretcheddomain · 06-04-2014 07:09PM

Rothmans wrote: »

That makes no sense, you are completely disregarding the purpose of the 'European Economic Area'

It's not disregarding it - it's trying to park it while discussing the political union aspects of the EU and its future trajectory.

If we get bogged down in the economics, which are no doubt important and worthwhile discussing, then we're diluting the discussion on the political aspect which seldom gets discussed in my view.

Out of interest who are the elite? Like can you post some names?

I refer to those such as the former Maoist Jose Manuel Barroso and figures such as Herman van Rompuy among others.

Rothmans · 06-04-2014 07:17PM

STEINBERG wrote: »

Why? what purpose would that have? just because we would not be in the EU means nobody would trade with us? please man stop with the buffonery

Its clear enough that you don't know what you're talking about.

Artful_Badger · 06-04-2014 07:19PM

We're too far in to back out now.

STEINBERG · 06-04-2014 07:19PM

Rothmans wrote: »

Its clear enough that you don't know what you're talking about.

so would you clear to point out why?

Nodin · 06-04-2014 07:19PM

Rothmans wrote: »

Things are finally starting to look up, so lets leave the EU and potentially cut off a significant bulk of international trade and foreign direct investment.

Makes sense

1 Hold Referendum
2 Leave EU
3 ????????????
4 Profit!!!!!!!!!!!

Rothmans · 06-04-2014 07:19PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

It's not disregarding it - it's trying to park it while discussing the political union aspects of the EU and its future trajectory.

If we get bogged down in the economics, which are no doubt important and worthwhile discussing, then we're diluting the discussion on the political aspect which seldom gets discussed in my view.

Fair enough, but I don't want to be involved in this debate then.

Its like asking 'Should we join NATO, but completely disregard the effect it would have on our military'.

If there were a referendum tomorrow, would you leave the EU?

Would you vote to leave the EU? 91 votes

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