We Need To Talk About Slow Play

Slicemeister · 02-04-2014 03:32PM

PARlance wrote: »

Castleknock have something like you are suggesting Slice.
Apparently it's used most days but the 2 times I played they didn't.

It's basically a GPS tag that is given out to each group. The tags are monitored from the clubhouse and if you're falling behind they send out the snipers.

Beaten to it. Wonder is it expensive or/and effective?

Rikand · 02-04-2014 03:35PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Lets face it - the minute you see a shot routine - you go this is going to be a long day.

Lads with Galvin Green normally - (joke)

Ha!

PARlance · 02-04-2014 03:36PM

Slicemeister wrote: »

Beaten to it. Wonder is it expensive or/and effective?

Never seen it in action but they've been doing it for years so it must have its merits.
Even the fact that groups know they are being monitored would be a plus.

I couldn't imagine it being too expensive to run. Maybe a hefty initial outlay though. Couldn't say really.

GreeBo · 02-04-2014 03:42PM

they should use those restaurant tags, if you are slow they make it vibrate, flash and ring!

Slicemeister · 02-04-2014 03:44PM

It's a great idea either way. Can't imagine some fellas being too impressed but if needs must...
Definitely think the solution long term is electronic. That's before any headcams for online referees ever come into existence though!!!

Axel Lamp · 02-04-2014 03:55PM

Five and a half hours around Fota last year, yes Five and a half. Cracked me up.

Ranger was on the first tee getting everyone off on time. Then he disappeared for the rest of the day as the AI hurling final was on.

A large group of colourfully attired Italian golfers held us up - taking pictures on the green, looking for golf balls, having a long break after the ninth and being woeful (7-8 shots per hole each)

But as long as Mr Course Ranger got to watch the match and get paid and not do his job, sure what does it matter.

Seve OB · 02-04-2014 03:56PM

PARlance wrote: »

Castleknock have something like you are suggesting Slice.
Apparently it's used most days but the 2 times I played they didn't.

It's basically a GPS tag that is given out to each group. The tags are monitored from the clubhouse and if you're falling behind they send out the snipers.

If you have a Society or big group going out, they might just give it to the first and last group, so you will be picked up in the middle somewhere....

I imagine, a few have made it into the boots of cars, I know mine did once, but luckily I was going back inside so they asked me for it. You just clip it onto your bag, so it's easily forgotten.

Ranger landed out with me one time with the GPS tag in his hand..... "here you go sir, you dropped this"

Rikand · 02-04-2014 04:20PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Watching Golf Central - the last time that somebody got a slow play penalty in PGA was 1995.

Interesting that Sunday has caused a panic amongst US golf - I think it was Loupe taking 90 seconds over a putt.

I've seen a worrying development of amateurs - copying pros- long pause over shot - 5 , 7 practice swings.

What is your views and what should we do.

I think teaching pros are as much to blame in this as anyone else. I remember when I was getting my last set of lessons, the pro commented that I take a long time getting to the ball and hitting it. Now I didn't think I was that slow, but he said the quicker you play your shot(within reason), the smaller amount of time there is for negative thoughts to enter your head and I have to completely agree with him.

Now I stand a few yards behind the ball, look down the fairway at where I want to put the ball, get in behind it and pull the trigger. i have noticed that there are a lot less negative thoughts getting in there and I have been hitting the ball better and more on target, away from hazards, etc...

A good few friends of mine have been getting lessons for the last number of years and I have asked some of them, does the pro make any comment on your routine, i.e. the number of practice swings and the length of time standing over the ball.

never - never has the pro said anything about it. In fact, the pro has encouraged their routine. Now I totally understand a routine being a good thing, but having a routine where you spend more than 1 minute playing your shot has to be a bad one and I know quite a number of people who have routines of this length and longer.

And for proof of my own routine just so I'm not poking fish in a barrel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSnF5Yg30zA

This is a video I posted in the swing thread recently

video is 55 seconds in total, but I spend the first 10 getting the camera setup, I begin my routine at 15 seconds and my swing and everything is completed by 40 seconds into the video. 25 seconds for the routine and shot to be played. And I would still say i could complete it quicker which my pro wanted of me.

Spending more than a minute taking your shot is bad. Being encouraged to do so by your pro is even worse!

Keano · 02-04-2014 04:28PM

The pro I see Rikand works with his lower handicapped players on being only 3 seconds over the ball. Like you said it reduces the time for negative thoughts. He's not anti-routine but that should be done while others are hitting and then get the ball and 3 seconds and it's gone

SnowDrifts · 02-04-2014 04:38PM

Rikand wrote: »

he said the quicker you play your shot(within reason), the smaller amount of time there is for negative thoughts to enter your head and I have to completely agree with him.

Keano A Legend wrote: »

The pro I see Rikand works with his lower handicapped players on being only 3 seconds over the ball. Like you said it reduces the time for negative thoughts. He's not anti-routine but that should be done while others are hitting and then get the ball and 3 seconds and it's gone

This is exactly what I was trying to highlight earlier. I just think so many players would benefit from doing what Rikland's pro suggests. Watching guys thinking about shots for an eternity and then standing over the ball for another eternity all the while building up the nerves and negative thoughts. Just grip it and rip it.

josie19 · 02-04-2014 04:39PM

Axel Lamp wrote: »

Five and a half hours around Fota last year, yes Five and a half. Cracked me up.

Ranger was on the first tee getting everyone off on time. Then he disappeared for the rest of the day as the AI hurling final was on.

A large group of colourfully attired Italian golfers held us up - taking pictures on the green, looking for golf balls, having a long break after the ninth and being woeful (7-8 shots per hole each)

But as long as Mr Course Ranger got to watch the match and get paid and not do his job, sure what does it matter.

Was that Kevin Markham dressed like an Italian?

blue note · 02-04-2014 05:09PM

I’m in two minds about the way we talk about slow play. On the one hand, lots of people need to get it through their thick skulls that they need to hurry the bejaysus up! And on the other hand, some people take it too seriously and seem to think that they need to shave every second possibly from their finishing time. The finishing time can be more important to some people than their number of shots!

When you put your hands together, you can be in a round where there’s a bunch of slow groups and you’re on course for a 5 hour round and no amount of pushing or pressure is going to get you home any faster. Yet the group behind still sprint around and end up on the tee with you before the way is clear for you to tee off. So you have the frustration of a slow round and the pressure of being hurried along.

Some of these guys seem to think that if you pressure a group on the 3rd hole that the group on the 10th who are actually slowing everyone down will hurry up. I don’t know how they think this will work, but from reading places like here some people seem to think it will. If they were near the slow group it could help or if the groups near the slow group acted like this it could help. But near the back it reminds me of people piling into a crowd leaving a match. Pushing from the back makes no difference other than to annoy the people you’re pushing.

Just on some of the earlier points – the time it takes to play a round is a huge impediment to playing the game. In the past men could get away with going off to the club for 5 hours. Now, the wives and partners are far less understanding. Particularly where there are kids involved.

And the modern course designs also slow down rounds. I don’t know any courses that have gotten shorter or easier. And longer, tougher courses take more time to play. I actually reckon the courses now compared to 20 years ago actually accounts for 20-30 minutes of a difference in rounds.

GreeBo · 02-04-2014 05:19PM

If 7 holes back there is a queue then there are multiple groups who are at fault. The group at the head and all the other groups that are immediately behind should be the ones queuing on the tee behind the slow group. Everyone else should be able to play at normal speed.
It shouldn't be possible to get to the stage where there is queueing 7 holes behind with only 1 slow group on the course.

However if the slow group dont let people through and you dont have a ranger...then you have problems.

Pushing at the back causes the people in front to push those in front, accepting slow play promotes it.

PARlance · 02-04-2014 05:20PM

Good points blue note... But just as well it's predominantly a male forum.... "Wives has become less understanding" got a laugh.
It wouldn't be due to the fact that most of them work these days compared to the good old times ?

mafc · 02-04-2014 05:22PM

4.5 & 5 hour rounds are absolutely ridiculous whether it's a 3 or a 4 ball, very good points have already been made on this thread so not much I can add.

However people should get it into their heads that 4 hours is ample time for a 4 ball and anything over that is considered slow play,

indabunka · 02-04-2014 05:24PM

PARlance wrote: »

Castleknock have something like you are suggesting Slice.
Apparently it's used most days but the 2 times I played they didn't.

It's basically a GPS tag that is given out to each group. The tags are monitored from the clubhouse and if you're falling behind they send out the snipers.

The system that Castleknock use is called GREENi I think. It costs about 2.5k a year for the full package but can also be used with smartphones costing €1200 per year. Using smartphones obviously needs the cooperation and agreement of players.

Worth every penny if it speeds up play IMO.

BraveDonut · 02-04-2014 06:03PM

The biggest problem is awareness. Nobody admits to being a slow player. Even if someone suggests that you hurry up, you think that this is only an isolated incident. Someone will only ask someone to hurry up if they are continually slow.
We all know certain players or groups of players at our clubs that are exceptionally slow, but these are special cases.

I am slow!

I take far too long over the ball for absolutely no reason! I don't know when or why this came into my game and I don't like it but I just it can't seem to get rid of it.

I am always conscious of this and I compensate for it by being always ready when I am up. I will also literally run to my ball if I feel that I am lagging behind.

Too many players are oblivious to the fact that they are slow and will themselves happily moan about the pace of play.

Like at a poker table - if you can't spot the sucker - its you!
If you are in a four-ball and you are falling behind and you can't spot the slow player - its you!

A lot of comments here have started "I'm not slow, but...."

Oilbeefhooked! · 02-04-2014 06:35PM

BraveDonut wrote: »

The biggest problem is awareness. Nobody admits to being a slow player. Even if someone suggests that you hurry up, you think that this is only an isolated incident. Someone will only ask someone to hurry up if they are continually slow.
We all know certain players or groups of players at our clubs that are exceptionally slow, but these are special cases.

I am slow!

I take far too long over the ball for absolutely no reason! I don't know when or why this came into my game and I don't like it but I just it can't seem to get rid of it.

I am always conscious of this and I compensate for it by being always ready when I am up. I will also literally run to my ball if I feel that I am lagging behind.

Too many players are oblivious to the fact that they are slow and will themselves happily moan about the pace of play.

Like at a poker table - if you can't spot the sucker - its you!
If you are in a four-ball and you are falling behind and you can't spot the slow player - its you!

A lot of comments here have started "I'm not slow, but...."

Very refreshing to hear someone admit they are slow,and i totally agree that probably some of the people giving out on here about 4hr 30 plus rounds are also slow in certain aspects of the game also,and are unaware/oblivious to the fact that they are,and that are/part of the reason the round takes so long.
At least, if you are aware, as you are , that you are slow and are conscious you may be holding up your group. You then can look to try and change things to speed up your pace of play, but if you are unaware then you will never change as its always someone else thats the problem.
Interested in why you take so long over the ball? I know you say you dont know why, but it has to be because you are running through some kind of mental checklist in your head?
Having only recently started to come out of a slump by purely thinking less,picking a target and just committing to that target. I can vouch for
for how crippling too many swing thoughts can be for your game.
Seriously free your mind and you wont look back.
Apologies if you are very low handicap golfer, in which case what do i know :rolleyes:

Rikand · 02-04-2014 07:04PM

I wonder is there anything in the rules that state you cant bring a little stool and tie it onto your bag ?

Same in the pro game, so the guys don't have to be standing around, they can sit on a light little fold out stool

BraveDonut · 02-04-2014 07:28PM

Thanks Beef!
That's exactly the problem - too many swing thoughts. I need to just stand up and hit it without all of the negative thoughts.
Any suggestions on clearing the mind?

Dealerz · 02-04-2014 07:32PM

BraveDonut wrote: »

Thanks Beef!
That's exactly the problem - too many swing thoughts. I need to just stand up and hit it without all of the negative thoughts.
Any suggestions on clearing the mind?

Take up Tennis ðŸ˜œ

Oilbeefhooked! · 02-04-2014 08:02PM

BraveDonut wrote: »

Thanks Beef!
That's exactly the problem - too many swing thoughts. I need to just stand up and hit it without all of the negative thoughts.
Any suggestions on clearing the mind?

For me personally, i was swinging with different swing thought nearly every time i was out as i would read something or get a new tip.

This made me feel in my mind like i had a dozen 'different swings' as i would slightly change grip or think of a shoulder or a right knee etc, chopping and changing as i was playing poorly .

It wasnt till i was a playing with a very good golfer, and he told me my swing was fine and it looked exactly the same every time, no matter what swing thought i was employing in my mind on the day.

This made me realize FINALLY that my swing was fundamentally sound and all the thinking was just adding tension and doubt into my shots.

So have just been working hard on forming a repetitive pre shot routine (even though it is very quick i do the same thing every time) pick my target behind the ball and walk in to the ball focusing on it and just COMMIT!!

My game and ball striking has improved drastically, and i cut my handicap on tuesday.

A great tip i heard was -
A good golfer stares at his target and glances at the ball.
A poor golfer stares at his ball and glances at the target!!

Give it a go, free your mind and your pace of play will pick up easily,
Hope that of some help.

Benny Cake · 02-04-2014 08:36PM

As someone who has recently become a dad the scourge of slow play has most certainly affected my ability to play weekend golf. A 4.5 hr round of golf means being gone from the house for almost 6 hours. For this reason I now play in the earliest group possible without two like minded mates. We regularly tee off at 7am on a Saturday morning. Normally takes 3 hrs 20 mins for 18. We don't sprint around the course, simply hit when ready with no excessive pre-shot routine.

Carpo86 · 02-04-2014 09:26PM

GreeBo wrote: »

True, but there is a line, if you just accept slow play ahead then you are part of the problem IMO. You should be putting slow players under pressure if you are behind then.

Yea I think that's fair enough up to a point. If it becomes clear that the group ahead are not going to let my group through though, for whatever reason, I'm not going to keep making sure I'm right up on top of them/start hitting the second it is safe to do so. Doing so is going to reduce my enjoyment of the game without really doing any good I think.

The solution, in my view at least, is the GPS system that someone earlier in the thread mentioned Castleknock use, whereby the club are able to identify exactly who is responsible for the hold up.

Carpo86 · 02-04-2014 09:36PM

Another advantage of the GPS system is the potential awkwardness if removes. I was playing in a fourball a few weeks ago with a couple of lads I hadn't previously played with. Both nice guys but both how should I put it, 'methodical' golfers. Considering I've only been in the club a few months and am a couple of decades younger than both of these guys I'll admit I bit my lip and didn't pass any remark. Even ended up missing a couple of short putts that I rushed through myself, very conscious of the fact that, yet again, the guys in the group behind had been on the fairway ready to play for quite some time.

Seve OB · 02-04-2014 11:10PM

Carpo86 wrote: »

Another advantage of the GPS system is the potential awkwardness if removes. I was playing in a fourball a few weeks ago with a couple of lads I hadn't previously played with. Both nice guys but both how should I put it, 'methodical' golfers. Considering I've only been in the club a few months and am a couple of decades younger than both of these guys I'll admit I bit my lip and didn't pass any remark. Even ended up missing a couple of short putts that I rushed through myself, very conscious of the fact that, yet again, the guys in the group behind had been on the fairway ready to play for quite some time.

Understand that, but I wouldn't see anything wrong with a simple mention that we seem to have lost the guys in front so we need to pick up the pace and get back on their heals.

Don't think anyone could take any offence to that even if you are new blood in the club

Carpo86 · 02-04-2014 11:21PM

stevieob wrote: »

Understand that, but I wouldn't see anything wrong with a simple mention that we seem to have lost the guys in front so we need to pick up the pace and get back on their heals.

Don't think anyone could take any offence to that even if you are new blood in the club

Appreciate that and think that I probably should have found a time to go with that. Was one of those awkward ones where we were sometimes up with the group in front and seemed fine but then also dropping back at others. It was only really by about 15 or so that we had clearly lost the group ahead and were holding up the group behind.

There was also the fact that my partner had ever so slightly lost it after missing a putt a couple of holes previous as well so felt that they might have thought it was a bit rich if they were pulled up on etiquette grounds....

Goldenjohn · 03-04-2014 12:05AM

Firstly, Never gonna play a boards outing after this thread......

Secondly, i hate slow play...slow walkers, lads freezing over the ball, long pre shot routines and even worse post shot routines of loads of practise swings because they didnt hit a perfect shot when someone else is trying to hit....thats just fu(king ignorant imo and not to be stereotypical but the last point its usually young lads i have experienced this with...
Anyway i have to say i'll tolerate a reasonable tardy player but the lads who run around the course melt my head, up your hole on every shot, your walking off the green and there are balls flying around you, debatable whether pitch marks are repaired or divots replaced , they never post a score, its more important they set a record time to get around the course "Tom, Henry and Frank played sunday in 2 hours 5 minutes and 12 seconds thats how golf should be played" ...no, no its not its somewhere in between, where your allowed to score your best, have some fun, enjoy yourself and get a round in without undue delay.

Professional game is a completely different story though...unacceptably slow

FixdePitchmark · 03-04-2014 12:11AM

Some reaction to the issue here.
I basically think golf takes too long. But, when I'm out I'm out. 90 % of my games are under 3h45 - On my own I like to hit 3 hours. This is due to my own personnel circumstances. I know it is unrealistic for most - but I need to be back to kids , wife, work etc.

I think as a golfer you need to be aware that - today is going to be slow - like most society days are a social outing with many golfers who are new or of higher handicap. You have to go with a state of mind that this will be 5 hours - then it is grand , because it is really a social thing.

Daft things would do my head in and only ever said it to one friend - he was a beginner - so you should make allowance there. I don't think you should let it ruin your day - I've seen guys do dangerous stuff as a result, hitting balls early - I've pulled them up on it. A guy who keeps talking about how slow somebody is, can be very annoying too.

Also - every group and person , deserves a total **** up of a hole - that is what we do and that is why we are amateurs. Give them a break if that is the case - they are already having a bad time.

There is a daftness in some golfers, that no matter what, they blame the group in front. If you are around golf enough you should be well able to to see why it is slow.

I think it is partially education, partially selfishness and partially amateurs being unrealistic thinking they are on tour. I often look at lads that have a long routine - thinking , it most likely has little impact on the outcome. There is this lad at my club - 3 to 5 perfect swings - with a pause between each , then a pause over the ball. Even when I see him an inner anger that I didn't know I had rises.

If you got to Royal County Down or some of the big links with tourists - you could be in for a round over 5 hours. I think you have to go with a certain mentality that it will be the slowest game of your life.

I think the gps is a good idea - but a timing system with clocks at 4 - 9 - 14 - saying how far your group is behind schedule. Would be easier. You could even do it by motion detector that tells you how far you are ahead or behind groups. Maybe gave away an invention there.

I'm around the formal game a bit more now, and am still perplexed to what the GUI do - there should be a clever poster campaign - 4 hours no more - something like that. They seem to have a way too low a profile for my liking (the GUI).

I play on ladies day in my place and many men could learn from watching them. Yes they don't hit the ball far. But -
Very fast walking, No hanging around, ready to hit, no hands on head or crying about a missed putt.

After all that - a group that speeds up when you get to them and have a pride not to let anybody through - is the worst thing in golf

Rikand · 03-04-2014 01:41AM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'm around the formal game a bit more now, and am still perplexed to what the GUI do - there should be a clever poster campaign - 4 hours no more - something like that. They seem to have a way too low a profile for my liking (the GUI).

LOL the GUI.

I played in Junior Cup Qualifiers in Athlone 2 years ago. I was due to tee off at 4:30 - i didnt tee off till 5:30 and i wasn't in until almost 11 PM. Just to make sure we got in, we played the 18th hole in a 6-ball.

The GUI hasn't a notion!

We Need To Talk About Slow Play

Comments