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'Smart' Responses

24

Comments

  • #32
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    cletus van damme wrote: »
    I'm less likely to invest time in the answer if the question is short or shows little investigation on behalf of the poser of the question .

    I've wasted time in the past given decent and researched advice to people who don't act on any of it (outside of the internet mostly)

    however I'll make the exception in the case of a regular poster as they have previous as people who contribute to this forum. That's how being a regular poster helps.

    I'll give pointers yes but a person needs to educate themselves and not expect be spoonfeed . which btw doesn't help anybody.

    That's exactly my line of thinking too.


  • #33
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Hanley wrote: »
    That's exactly my line of thinking too.

    My only problem with that is that alot of the time google directs people here as first port of call. Are they really gonna think "no I can't ask the question there Ill come back when I have read up enough". This kinda defeats the purpose of having the forum open to new posters to ask questions.

    I can understand people get tired of answering the same questions over and over (I know the athletics forum is similar in this regard) but surely going to the effort of making the smart comments is just as much a waste of time (both to the person who makes it as well as the OP)

    I'll be honest I have found this forum quite useful and would read a fair bit but very rarely post and would not recommend people to come here to ask questions as beginners or general novices in the area they are looking for advice from and I think this is fairly unique here in comparison to most other forums here on boards.

    (Just before I am completely blanked "Yes I do lift :D" )


  • #34
    RidleyRider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭RidleyRider


    ecoli wrote: »
    My only problem with that is that alot of the time google directs people here as first port of call. Are they really gonna think "no I can't ask the question there Ill come back when I have read up enough". This kinda defeats the purpose of having the forum open to new posters to ask questions.

    I can understand people get tired of answering the same questions over and over (I know the athletics forum is similar in this regard) but surely going to the effort of making the smart comments is just as much a waste of time (both to the person who makes it as well as the OP)

    I'll be honest I have found this forum quite useful and would read a fair bit but very rarely post and would not recommend people to come here to ask questions as beginners or general novices in the area they are looking for advice from and I think this is fairly unique here in comparison to most other forums here on boards.

    (Just before I am completely blanked "Yes I do lift :D" )

    The problem is they don't do any research at all. They don't try answer the question themselves. They look straight for the easier option and post a silly 8-10 word question easily answered by google etc..

    If you're finding conflicting information on your question and you don't know which source is better to listen to etc.. by all means start a thread, tell the forum what you've actually done to research your problem.

    Hey, you never know they might learn something!


  • #35
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    When the question is "What are the benefits of running?" the answer is "The benefits of running are..." I don't understand how there could be any other answer.
    Whenever someone asks me, or a group that I'm part of, a really basic question about something that I'd have an in-depth knowledge of, I just view it as "Someone who doesn't have the knowledge that I have" and respond in kind. It's really not difficult. :confused:

    In my personal experience, those who say "It's only the internet, grow a thicker skin" etc etc are just projecting, because they actually turn out to be the most hypersensitive of all. (I'm not including Alf Veedersane btw as they apologised and obviously didn't mean any badness - it's just this thread has some disappointing attitudes, which I thought were a thing of the past).
    RidleyRider wrote: »
    It's a bad state of affairs if nobody can have a laugh here anymore.
    Where was anyone complaining about people having a laugh? Christ, even lying being resorted to. :rolleyes:
    Theresalwaysone wrote: »
    Especially on a internet message board. Christ... what do these people do in real life?
    Not... deal with smart-ass unhelpfulness I'd imagine. I'm very confident that most of the snide, dismissive "bad-asses" here wouldn't dream of being that way in real life.


  • #36
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Jerrica wrote: »
    I'm just not a fan of being a dick for the sake of it. I guess I'm old fashioned like that.
    Get with the times Jerrica - it's fashionable and edgy and cool, especially on the internet when you can be anonymous and you're not face-to-face, and therefore particularly brave.


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  • #37
    Inspector Coptoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    RidleyRider wrote: »
    The problem is they don't do any research at all. They don't try answer the question themselves. They look straight for the easier option and post a silly 8-10 word question easily answered by google etc..

    If you're finding conflicting information on your question and you don't know which source is better to listen to etc.. by all means start a thread, tell the forum what you've actually done to research your problem.

    Hey, you never know they might learn something!

    And you are an expert since........?

    You're really coming off as being very holier than thou IMO but maybe I'm reading too much into it,


  • #38
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    When the question is "What are the benefits of running?" the answer is "The benefits of running are..." Defend snideness all you like, some of you, but that is the answer. It's straightforward

    I don't agree on that point because I think someone coming in asking a question like that wants to know what the benefits of running are for them and to give a proper answer, you need a little more context or otherwise it's just a generic answer, IMO. Sure, there are certain common benefits but there are others that depend on the person themselves.

    Running 3.5km a day will quite possibly have quite a different effect for me than it will for someone else.


  • #39
    Doug Cartel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    When the question is "What are the benefits of running?" the answer is "The benefits of running are..." Defend snideness all you like, some of you, but that is the answer. It's straightforward.

    If you see an answer to a question, and you feel it isn't a great answer, you can answer the question yourself. You can do it right then and there. It is within your power.

    You don't have to go on to another thread and complain that the question wasn't answered properly. I mean you can if you want to, but you don't have to. Assuming the thread isn't closed, you can type your answer into a box at the bottom of the thread and hit "Submit".

    If you want to see good answers to these questions, he answer is not to cut back on the bad ones - the answer is to start providing more good ones. If the bad answers were coming in at high enough a rate that they were drowning out the good answers, then there might be a problem, bu I don't think we're anything near that. Start trying to cut back how people can answer and the reply rate will drop to a trickle very quickly. I've seen it happen other places before.


  • #40
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Doug Cartel wrote: »
    If you see an answer to a question, and you feel it isn't a great answer, you can answer the question yourself. You can do it right then and there. It is within your power.
    Or... this is a website with thousands and thousands of readers, and sometimes when a question is being asked by one person, others who would also like an answer to that question will read the thread to see what the answer is? Which is what applies to me. Huge assumption by you.
    You don't have to go on to another thread and complain that the question wasn't answered properly. I mean you can if you want to, but you don't have to. Assuming the thread isn't closed, you can type your answer into a box at the bottom of the thread and hit "Submit".
    Not sure I said or even implied I "had to"?


  • #41
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    RidleyRider wrote: »
    The problem is they don't do any research at all. They don't try answer the question themselves. They look straight for the easier option and post a silly 8-10 word question easily answered by google etc..

    If you're finding conflicting information on your question and you don't know which source is better to listen to etc.. by all means start a thread, tell the forum what you've actually done to research your problem.

    Hey, you never know they might learn something!

    Out of interest if you have a engine problem or indeed a computer problem do you always research internal combustion/ computer hardware/software or coding?

    In an ideal world yes it would be nice for people to become informed themselves but not everyone is wired that way and before people say that it's just laziness there are plenty of elite athletes from all disciplines who come under this bracket. Sure these lazy people are the reason why nutritionists, coaches, personal trainers, therapists etc are needed and alot of us would be out of jobs if it wasn't for this fact


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  • #42
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    RidleyRider wrote: »
    The problem is they don't do any research at all. They don't try answer the question themselves. They look straight for the easier option and post a silly 8-10 word question easily answered by google etc..

    If you're finding conflicting information on your question and you don't know which source is better to listen to etc.. by all means start a thread, tell the forum what you've actually done to research your problem.

    Hey, you never know they might learn something!

    Eh... aren't you the lad who use to start threads on here at 2am wondering why you weren't recovering from your early morning gym sessions?


  • #43
    Doug Cartel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Huge assumption by you.
    Looks like I misread your last post. I thought you were saying that you knew the answer, and that it was so obvious, you couldn't imagine how someone would give an inadequate one.

    Are you actually looking for what the benefit of running is? Have you tried putting the question "what is the benefit of running" into google and looking at the results? I'm not saying this to be smart. Take a look at the articles that come up - see how long they are. All those different points - it's not actually that straightforward a question to answer.

    You'll notice that there was one "smart" answer and straight away the follow up was "Are people being a bit smart here?" The "smart" answer was actually saying something valid, just not phrased in a way that a beginner would realise the point being made.

    So people want others to volunteer to give them detailed answers to open ended questions, and if they put a foot wrong straight away there's threads about how rude they are. That's not a great incentive to contribute anything, is it?


  • #44
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,377 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    It's quite strange that some people who were initially complaining about smart answers have resorted to smart answers and little digs at other posters.
    The internet is a strange place.


  • #45
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    The forum is more if a mixed bag right now than it's ever been, since I started posting here anyway. There are a lot of good discussions but then there are a lot of questions being answered by snappy one liners which are attempts at humour, I think.

    Is there a problem? - yes
    Is it a new problem? - no

    I think the answer is simple: can everyone just try to be a little nicer? Especially when the OP is obviously clueless. Let's be more welcoming, eh?

    I don't agree at all that posters should be off doing independent research before the ask a question. This forum is for asking questions. It's not a talking shop for people who think they have all of the answers.

    Anyway , I blame G'em for leaving.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #46
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Mod note: can we please refrain from having digs at individual posters. Let's keep things as general as possible. Thanks.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #47
    Theresalwaysone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭Theresalwaysone


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Not... deal with smart-ass unhelpfulness I'd imagine. I'm very confident that most of the snide, dismissive "bad-asses" here wouldn't dream of being that way in real life.
    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Get with the times Jerrica - it's fashionable and edgy and cool, especially on the internet when you can be anonymous and you're not face-to-face, and therefore particularly brave.

    I'm assuming you don't mean me. I don't think I've ever been rude or dismissive to anyone new here. Obvious trolls aside.

    I also think I'd be fairly consistent with how I treat people here compared to real life.


  • #48
    Worksforyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Worksforyou


    Here is a thread I started on this forum a short while ago: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057173449

    The first person that replied tried to help but then the 2nd person in post 5 was the first 'smart' response I got. The next person recommended a place also but it didn't suit so I thanked them and explained why it didn't suit. I then got 3 'smart' responses in a row before someone with a helpful post replied.
    Strange that Panda Turtle read the exact same thing the others did but the others couldn't seem to understand plain English. I'm nowhere near an expert on all of this so I thought maybe it was my fault so I apologised in the next post and tried to make myself clearer. After some posts talking with Panda Turtle, I got called a dick for some reason. I fail to see where I was a dick in that thread anywhere.
    I thanked people for their help and apologised for not being clearer. I told this poster it's okay not to post if you have nothing worth saying and it was nothing but helpful posts there after. Why could some of the posters that replied to me offer helpful advice, while others were anything but helpful? If they didn't understand the question they could have asked nicely for me to explain it or just not post at all!


  • #49
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Worksforyou wrote: »
    Here is a thread I started on this forum a short while ago: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057173449

    The first person that replied tried to help but then the 2nd person in post 5 was the first 'smart' response I got. The next person recommended a place also but it didn't suit so I thanked them and explained why it didn't suit. I then got 3 'smart' responses in a row before someone with a helpful post replied.
    Strange that Panda Turtle read the exact same thing the others did but the others couldn't seem to understand plain English. I'm nowhere near an expert on all of this so I thought maybe it was my fault so I apologised in the next post and tried to make myself clearer. After some posts talking with Panda Turtle, I got called a dick for some reason. I fail to see where I was a dick in that thread anywhere.
    I thanked people for their help and apologised for not being clearer. I told this poster it's okay not to post if you have nothing worth saying and it was nothing but helpful posts there after. Why could some of the posters that replied to me offer helpful advice, while others were anything but helpful? If they didn't understand the question they could have asked nicely for me to explain it or just not post at all!

    To be fair, the majority of people tend to want somewhere in a smaller area so I didn't read the post you tagged as the first smart one as being an actual smart answer. Just seemed like the poster felt like you weren't helping them to help you.

    But this happens all the time...the tone often gets picked up wrong. Not always, mind you, but there are occasions when an aswer is being misinterpreted as smart because it's text.

    Which is how this thread came to be...


  • #50
    RidleyRider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭RidleyRider


    Inspector Coptoor wrote: »
    And you are an expert since........?

    You're really coming off as being very holier than thou IMO but maybe I'm reading too much into it,

    I'm not an expert. I never claimed I was. I said people are lazy and don't want to to anything for themselves.


  • #51
    Worksforyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Worksforyou


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    To be fair, the majority of people tend to want somewhere in a smaller area so I didn't read the post you tagged as the first smart one as being an actual smart answer. Just seemed like the poster felt like you weren't helping them to help you. But this happens all the time...the tone often gets picked up wrong. Not always, mind you, but there are occasions when an aswer is being misinterpreted as smart because it's text. Which is how this thread came to be...
    I had put the specific area but edited it because I didn't want to restrict any advice forthcoming. I take your point though. However, that doesn't explain the other posters, some of who have thousands of posts. I don't read these forums often but I've noticed it in plenty of other threads. Why post at all if you're have nothing helpful to add?


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  • #52
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Worksforyou wrote: »
    I had put the specific area but edited it because I didn't want to restrict any advice forthcoming. I take your point though. However, that doesn't explain the other posters, some of who have thousands of posts. I don't read these forums often but I've noticed it in plenty of other threads. Why post at all if you're have nothing helpful to add?

    That's fair enough but, like I said, most people looking for somewhere to train have a much smaller area in mind.

    But I think your thread would have been very different if you'd kicked off with the info you gave in Post #14.

    Things get 'lost in translation' so tone is often misinterpreted and by the same token that you might think someone was being smart, they might have seen you as being overly vague.


  • #53
    Essien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Essien


    Worksforyou wrote: »
    I had put the specific area but edited it because I didn't want to restrict any advice forthcoming. I take your point though. However, that doesn't explain the other posters, some of who have thousands of posts. I don't read these forums often but I've noticed it in plenty of other threads. Why post at all if you're have nothing helpful to add?

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with anything in that thread other than you not being clear enough initially.

    The expensive gyms were mentioned before you gave a budget. Why should posters assume your budget is 80 when you're describing, as Hanley said, a premium service?

    Budget is relative to the individual. If I went into the motors forum asking for recommendations on a new Mercedes, it's not unreasonable to assume my budget is higher than most, even if I suggest it's relatively low.


  • #54
    Doug Cartel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    Worksforyou wrote: »
    Why post at all if you're have nothing helpful to add?

    Possibly because the forum doesn't actually revolve around answering beginners questions. (Though it sure looks like it sometimes.)

    This is a place where people into health and fitness can chat with each other. A side effect of this is that quite a bit of the stuff they discuss will be helpful. However you can't demand that 100% of what they post be helpful. If the responses were abusive, or the volume of "smart" responses was drowning out the good posts, there would be a problem, but I don't think we are close to that at all. The posters are not being paid or anything; some are here to network and help promote their fitness business, but most are here just here for a bit of fun. If people feel they can't have a bit of fun here they'll just stop posting, and then you'll get no responses, smart or otherwise.

    The charter says to be specific when asking for advice. You however chose to be vague. This made it difficult to help you, but some people chose to try anyway. You got three suggestions for places in the first page - I think that was pretty good going.

    It's a two way street, the quality of the answers you get is proportional to the quality of the question you ask. You're also going to get some noise in any thread, that's just the way things are. If someone calls you a dick, then flag the post as abusive, but beyond that you have to accept that not every answer is going to be helpful.


  • #55
    Worksforyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Worksforyou


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    That's fair enough but, like I said, most people looking for somewhere to train have a much smaller area in mind.

    But I think your thread would have been very different if you'd kicked off with the info you gave in Post #14.

    Things get 'lost in translation' so tone is often misinterpreted and by the same token that you might think someone was being smart, they might have seen you as being overly vague.

    Things can be misinterpreted but I can't see how being called a dick can be.


  • #56
    Worksforyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Worksforyou


    Essien wrote: »
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with anything in that thread other than you not being clear enough initially.

    The expensive gyms were mentioned before you gave a budget. Why should posters assume your budget is 80 when you're describing, as Hanley said, a premium service?

    Budget is relative to the individual. If I went into the motors forum asking for recommendations on a new Mercedes, it's not unreasonable to assume my budget is higher than most, even if I suggest it's relatively low.

    I said my budget isn't that big in the very first post and i said all the crossfits I searched were expensive. I think that was very clear, 2 people then posted links to overpriced gyms, I thanked them but said I had a limited budget. What's difficult to understand about that? It was clear enough for Panda Turtle to understand.


  • #57
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Worksforyou wrote: »
    I thanked them but said I had a limited budget.

    Well , you thanked one and said "same as above" to the other.

    That same poster said you were being a dick and to some it was a bit of a dickish answer. It may not have been intended to be but it's not that big a leap for someone whose tone they don't know to think that was being a dismissive answer to your question.


  • #58
    Worksforyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Worksforyou


    Doug Cartel wrote: »
    Possibly because the forum doesn't actually revolve around answering beginners questions. (Though it sure looks like it sometimes.)

    This is a place where people into health and fitness can chat with each other. A side effect of this is that quite a bit of the stuff they discuss will be helpful. However you can't demand that 100% of what they post be helpful. If the responses were abusive, or the volume of "smart" responses was drowning out the good posts, there would be a problem, but I don't think we are close to that at all. The posters are not being paid or anything; some are here to network and help promote their fitness business, but most are here just here for a bit of fun. If people feel they can't have a bit of fun here they'll just stop posting, and then you'll get no responses, smart or otherwise.

    The charter says to be specific when asking for advice. You however chose to be vague. This made it difficult to help you, but some people chose to try anyway. You got three suggestions for places in the first page - I think that was pretty good going.

    It's a two way street, the quality of the answers you get is proportional to the quality of the question you ask. You're also going to get some noise in any thread, that's just the way things are. If someone calls you a dick, then flag the post as abusive, but beyond that you have to accept that not every answer is going to be helpful.

    If someone doesn't want to answer beginners questions then they don't have to, leave it to someone who wants to. What's difficult about that?

    If you need more detail to answer a question then you can ask, 'can we have more detail please?'. You don't even have to say please. What's difficult about that?

    When I gave more detail the people who gave all the 'smart' responses didn't have anything to say only call me a dick and thank the post that called me a dick. You say that's them just having some fun, then no wonder this thread has started.


  • #59
    Worksforyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Worksforyou


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Well , you thanked one and said "same as above" to the other.

    That same poster said you were being a dick and to some it was a bit of a dickish answer. It may not have been intended to be but it's not that big a leap for someone whose tone they don't know to think that was being a dismissive answer to your question.

    Same as above means the same thing as has been posted above. That being "Thanks but as I said in my op, I have a limited budget and their prices are far too high for me". How can you make the leap to where I'm being a dick?


  • #60
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Worksforyou wrote: »
    Same as above means the same thing as has been posted above. That being "Thanks but as I said in my op, I have a limited budget and their prices are far too high for me". How can you make the leap to where I'm being a dick?

    It's easily interpreted as a dismissive answer.

    Would have taken no extra effort to say 'thanks but it's too expensive' and then the poster who said you were being a dick might not have thought you were being a dick.

    Anyway, this thread has become about your thread rather than a general one.

    I think it's time for a forum group hug or something.



    Something less lame, perhaps.


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  • #61
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,421 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    I dont want this thread bogged down by nitty gritty arguments specific to one situation,Worksforyou, as that can tend to get a bit circular and not help. So rather than get into a back and forth about the minutiae of how your words were (mis)interpreted, can we keep the discussion more open please?


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