We Need To Talk About Slow Play

FixdePitchmark · 02-04-2014 01:37AM #1

Watching Golf Central - the last time that somebody got a slow play penalty in PGA was 1995.

Interesting that Sunday has caused a panic amongst US golf - I think it was Loupe taking 90 seconds over a putt.

I've seen a worrying development of amateurs - copying pros- long pause over shot - 5 , 7 practice swings.

What is your views and what should we do.

scrubber72 · 02-04-2014 07:20AM

Batter them.
No seriously we should man up and let people know in our own groups that they are slow. Also if rangers are in clubs they should be more active and not just drive around in buggies. Its a thankless job but that's what they are paid to do.

TrapperChamonix · 02-04-2014 08:37AM

Pro's: We should expose and ridicule slow play on the professional tour (Keegan, Na, Langer, Furyk etc etc). If they are on the clock and penalised it should be by deducting shots cause a few thousand bucks either way doesn't make any difference. I'm not sure exactly what went on with Na recently and I don't agree with calling out during his shot but if he was getting heckled outside of that for excessive slow play then GOOD.
The most disturbing thing I heard recently from a player (can't for the life of me remember who it was) was that his coach had instructed him to slow his walk down between shots.

On a personal basis, 2 pet peves;
Playing in strict rotation: There is far too much bulls*** that goes on with people deciding who's away on a hole or who's honour it is. Its a custom but not a rule and I'm normally happy to abide by it but it the round is heading for 4.5 hrs plus then I can do without it. When ever I am in a group that is lagging behind the group in front, the 1st thing I suggest is that you play when ready. I can't abide 3 people on the green waiting for the 4th to chip AND then cause he's furthest away, waiting for him to walk on to the green and line up his putt and only then hit your own. Similarly if you are at the tee 1st and its not your honour then just get up and hit the ball.
Searching for lost ball: Another example is when someone has lost his ball and his partners are looking for it, there is no reason that 3 people can't look for the ball while the 4th is playing theirs then join the search while freeing up another to play their shot. At the end of the five minutes search all the other players should have played their shots while at the same time 3 people will have been looking for the ball for the allocated 5 mins.

heebusjeebus · 02-04-2014 08:49AM

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

The most disturbing thing I heard recently from a player (can't for the life of me remember who it was) was that his coach had instructed him to slow his walk down between shots.

I remember reading that too:

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/some-faster-players-are-getting-slow

snaphook · 02-04-2014 08:51AM

I recall Brandel Chamblee commenting that it is actually Jim Furyk that is the slowest player on tour and not Kevin Na. The tv producers are fully aware of the quirks and pauses that form part of Furyk's pre-shot routine and will only cut bak to Jim once he is ready to go forming the impression in the viewers mind that he is not that slow.

Na has been consistently at the top of the leaderboard in recent months so we get to see more of his slow play as a consequence.

I remember the Setanta's coverage of the Masters last year and Ernie Els had just hit to the 16th. Steve Stricker tee'd his ball up and took what must have been 2-3 minutes to hit his shot. It was agonising to watch without the luxury of a tv producers editing.

slave1 · 02-04-2014 08:54AM

Be ready to take your shot is the main one for me...

On the tee, if you're up then tee it up without delay, if someone else from your group reaches the tee box first then let them off and relinquish the "honour".
Through the green, be ready to take your shot, if you are on one side of the fairway and a partner is a good bit away then get to your ball, take your distance or whatever your pre-shot routine is and be ready to hit as soon as your partner has played (whilst keeping an eye on their ball), I often hit immediately after my partner and we've two balls in the air on shots where I have the general feeling his ball is safe e.g. short approach.
The green, mark, repair the green, clean the ball and line up whilst other players are doing the same and we're not in the Ryder Cup so when I say it's okay to stand in my line for your tap-in then just do it as marking when it's a tap-in is just a waste of time.

I won't rush around though, I'm out to enjoy myself and as long as you keep up good pace and take your shot when it's your turn there should be no need to tear around the place...

Sometimes there are inexplicable delays, I remember a 42minute wait on the second tee box in Tullamore last year, that was a joke...

Golfgraffix · 02-04-2014 08:58AM

Slow play is going to cripple the game, young players coming in to the game are the life blood and the simple truth is that the generations coming through now don't want to spend even 4 hours on the course let alone 5. The Xbox generation want instant gratification and slow play will just turn them off a game that is already hard enough to get started at.

I was at the Leinster branch meeting last Monady week and the main topic was slow play, their research showed it was one of the top deciding factors in people leaving the game, in the 8000 people polled it came in with a very high percentage as a con for staying with the game.

I am quite happy to say it to somebody when I am playing, I won't be a dick about it but if someone repeatedly slow then I will politely ask them to pick up the pace. My pet hate is the hugely drawn out pre shot routine, I watched a guy a few weeks ago take almost a minute to hit the ball after he first addressed it, and there was only one practise swing!! I actually thought he had fallen asleep.

I don't think I am the fastest player around, infact I am quite deliberate with my putting routine but I make up for that elsewhere, I agree that this idea of playing order is not really necessary outside of match play, where it can have a huge bearing on strategy. Play away would be my moto, and if its not your turn to play then at least be ready to hit when it is.

I am sure I sound a little like Staddler and Waldorf but slow play really really bugs me, last year in Portmarnock Links I offered a visitor a tenner from my bag if he would stop looking for lost balls and I don't mean his own, he was looking in areas where he thought there might be some free balls to be found.

J

DuckHook · 02-04-2014 09:02AM

Im an advocate of playing when ready, like somebody already said if your on the green and one of the other players is chipping on whats the issue with hitting your putt if your closer when the guy is sorting himself out after having played.

Ive started doing it more and more recently when the situation allows and it frees me up to tend the flag etc so when we are all finished and the group gets off the green quicker.

TRS30 · 02-04-2014 09:04AM

When playing with mates we play 'ready golf'- whoever is ready to tee off hits, regardless of who scored what on the last hole.

My pet hates which slow play down are-

-when the group in front of you (or two groups in front) are slow and you are told you cant say anything to them because one of the group in on the committee or is ex president, captain etc.

-when one player leaves their bag on the opposite side of the green to where the next tee is. You are a member, you know where the next tee is!!

-someone telling a joke or funny story on the tee so no one is hitting while you are putting out on the green behind.

Dealerz · 02-04-2014 09:08AM

The fear of walking on someone's line... We are bloody amateurs for gods sake!!! Just walk up and hit your 1ft put into the hole.
This honour thing does my head in...if your ready then hit it!

Bag being left at the front of green by members.... You know were the next tee box is so what are you bloody doing!

Amateurs miss a putt and start looking at playing partners for words of wisdom or a hug as to why it didn't break the way they wanted it... I don't care about your miss just mark it or finish it
Just thought of another one....the deliberate pause and pose after hitting your first decent drive of the day..again I don't bloody care so pick your tee up and let's go!!

TrapperChamonix · 02-04-2014 09:16AM

Golfgraffix wrote: »

last year in Portmarnock Links I offered a visitor a tenner from my bag if he would stop looking for lost balls and I don't mean his own, he was looking in areas where he thought there might be some free balls to be found.

J

No one would judge if you wrapped a club around his neck

FixdePitchmark · 02-04-2014 09:19AM

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

No one would judge if you wrapped a club around his neck

Is funny but - a lad looking for balls.

FixdePitchmark · 02-04-2014 09:21AM

Slow walkers is a pet hate of mine.

Also lads that only speed up when you catch up with them.

The long pre shot routine then - the freeze over the ball lads.

Russman · 02-04-2014 09:26AM

Totally agree that slow play is one of the biggest issues facing the game right now.

I do think that there are subtle differences between the slow play on tour and the slow play at clubs though. Most of the pros are doing it deliberately and have been brainwashed into thinking their routine must be x number of steps long or the world will end. I'd be inclined to ask them "did you play like that when you were a junior ?" The tour could end slow play overnight if it wanted to, by simply adhering to the rules that are already there, but for some reason Timmy doesn't want to. Its a shame some of the good young players coming through are appallingly slow though, Keegan Bradley, Webb Simpson, yer man Loupy, Na, are setting a terrible example for juniors the world over. A couple of one shot penalties to marquee names and it would stop pretty sharpish, no point in doing the Chinese amateur, that's only window dressing.

At club level a lot of the slowness is IMO down to stupid things like leaving your bag the wrong side of the green, not being ready to hit when its your turn or starting your "routine" only when its your turn to hit etc. Simple common sense things could easily have everyone around in well under 4 hours. We've one group of guys who literally mark their balls when they're 6 inches from the hole and wait for the others to putt, crazy stuff.
You also see guys who are so deliberate you'd wonder how they manage to play at all, do they not realise its a sport and you need to be loose ? A guy I sometimes play with tells me he goes through a checklist of about 10 things in his head while he's standing over the ball and he can't start his swing until he does !! FFS !!
Another issue at club level, and its a hard one to bring up or deal with, everyone gives out about slow play, but most of the slow players don't think they are slow and have no idea they're holding up the course.
Then there's the attitude of "I've paid my fees, I'll take as long as I like", coupled with the "never let anyone through" mentality, all adding up to the "four and a half hours is fine for a round of golf" - well I'm sorry, it's not, unless you're playing 7,500 yards and there's miles of walking.

I reckon it'll be easier to solve at tour level than club level !:D:D

Corkblowin · 02-04-2014 09:43AM

I agree with everyone and everything on the thread - shame none of the slow players are on boards!

slave1 wrote: »

I often hit immediately after my partner and we've two balls in the air on shots where I have the general feeling his ball is safe

However I think this would start to grate on my nerves - I'd be waiting for the crack of your shot in the middle of mine. Fair enough if you're with mates and you're all used to each others routines.

I've been playing with a few juniors recently and some of their routines are ridiculous - had to pull up one young lad last week with his whole demeanor - long routine, slow walking, and the 5 or 6 practise swings AFTER the shot when it wasn't to Tiger-like precision. Started off with slagging about how he couldn't keep up with the auld lads to eventually telling him we'd be timing him if he didn't get his ass in gear.

The big one, as everyone here has mentioned, is be f'ing well ready to hit when its your go, and then play out of turn if its obvious that there will be a wait for the guy whos away.

Seve OB · 02-04-2014 10:13AM

Agree with all the above.

Another one the irks me is when I hit my drive, eg. down left side and playing partners are on right, I will walk straight to my ball. If they are hitting first, I will get myself set up and as soon as their club strikes their ball, I will hit. I see it all to often though that other people would have walked up the right side with their playing partners, and only after their partner hits do they walk over to their own ball.

I don't think I'm slow at all. I may take my time over a shot (I always have a couple of practice swings), but I get to my ball quickly, I will hit out of turn if others aren't ready and I will make sure we keep up with the group in front. If we fall behind, I will say it to the lads and I will near run ahead of them to pick up the pace and close the gap.

Remember lads, your place on the golf course is behind the group in front and not in front of the group behind.

alxmorgan · 02-04-2014 10:13AM

All golf clubs should stick a sign on every tee box

"We play ready golf at this course"

Freemount09 · 02-04-2014 10:13AM

There is one fella in our club who is notorious for slow play. He pauses for atleast 45 seconds before starting his backswing, and regularly, stops on his backswing, and steps away and goes through the whole routine again !! I got caught with him once !!! If I see him on the timesheet, if I can't get out before him I'm slow to put my name down cause I know the course will be backed up !!

Think my slowest round ever was Macreddin with Boards Golf Society at just shy of 6 hours, haven't managed to get to many more after that, but I saw some comments about Esker Hills taking 5 hours recently so surely there are some culprits amoungst us ??

cgh · 02-04-2014 10:16AM

when it comes to slow play, one thing I've noticed is clubs letting four lads out in singles competitions and holding up the course and they are all out for a Sunday morning stroll.
Has put me off playing.

neckedit · 02-04-2014 10:37AM

Some great ideas on here.....
Ready golf all the time is the first and a very sensible approach to speeding up things even if takes 10 mins of a round, its a start. If every club trialed it and as Alex suggested put a few signs up saying "We are a Ready Golf Club", I feel we would see it picking up the pace. Signs also approaching greens or on the score card, the ones that show the green, showing the player were to leave bags for the most convenient access to the next tee box. We all need to police our own groups also, if we have a slow player let them know.
Finally I feel there should be a 20 second rule or something like it, i.e. you reach your ball on the fairway you have 20 secs to pull the trigger, I know this would be hard to police or enforce and under what kind methodology might be used, but something drastic needs to be done.

mike12 · 02-04-2014 10:43AM

Played with a high handicapper who had lessons so he had a full minute of a pre shot routine, he then duff's it infront of him and goes thru it again next ball OB drops one and goes thru the pre shot routine again. 3/4 mins and he hadn't moved.
To be honest the small things add up in a round, when I play in my regular 4ball I am the fastest so I play out of turn almost every hole. Small things like marking short putts, bag on the wrong side of the green waiting for the last person to mark their ball after they have chipped on someone should mark it for them if they have to move their bag around to the correct side of the green, putt out of turn if you are ready.
Things that delay the group 20 or 30 seconds 2 or 3 time a hole will add up to 20 plus minutes over a round.
Another big one is watch the ball sometimes it is hard to keep an eye on your own ball with a low sun and you see groups and not 1 of them have a clue where the ball has gone.

Boskowski · 02-04-2014 10:45AM

People are copying what they see on telly especially kids. That's why I hate the carry on with slow play in golf and simulating and mouthing to ref in football. Kids see it and in 10 years it's all we gonna see on telly.
No surprise the slowest people on our course are the juniors. They play practice rounds and imitate the pros. You see them standing discussing the shot they're going to play and take ages for everything. A good cobbler could also put new soles on their shoes while they're walking so fkn slow they are.
It's awful.

DuckHook · 02-04-2014 10:47AM

mike12 wrote: »

Played with a high handicapper who had lessons so he had a full minute of a pre shot routine, he then duff's it infront of him and goes thru it again next ball OB drops one and goes thru the pre shot routine again. 3/4 mins and he hadn't moved.
To be honest the small things add up in a round, when I play in my regular 4ball I am the fastest so I play out of turn almost every hole. Small things like marking short putts, bag on the wrong side of the green waiting for the last person to mark their ball after they have chipped on someone should mark it for them if they have to move their bag around to the correct side of the green, putt out of turn if you are ready.
Things that delay the group 20 or 30 seconds 2 or 3 time a hole will add up to 20 plus minutes over a round.
Another big one is watch the ball sometimes it is hard to keep an eye on your own ball with a low sun and you see groups and not 1 of them have a clue where the ball has gone.

This does my head in..so often people bend down and pick the tee up when they should watching their slice land instead of expecting other people to watch their ball.

neckedit · 02-04-2014 10:48AM

Boskowski wrote: »

People are copying what they see on telly especially kids. That's why I hate the carry on with slow play in golf and simulating and mouthing to ref in football. Kids see it and in 10 years it's all we gonna see on telly.
No surprise the slowest people on our course are the juniors. They play practice rounds and imitate the pros. You see them standing discussing the shot they're going to play and take ages for everything. A good cobbler could also put new soles on their shoes while they're walking so fkn slow they are.
It's awful.

Not so sure about this, I agree some of the young lads n lassies do try to emulate the Tour Players, but I don't think the issue has anything to do with generation.

Sorry, I mis-read, I didn't see the "our Course" bit...........but i stand by my point.

Dealerz · 02-04-2014 10:51AM

Freemount09 wrote: »

There is one fella in our club who is notorious for slow play. He pauses for atleast 45 seconds before starting his backswing, and regularly, stops on his backswing, and steps away and goes through the whole routine again !! I got caught with him once !!! If I see him on the timesheet, if I can't get out before him I'm slow to put my name down cause I know the course will be backed up !!

Think my slowest round ever was Macreddin with Boards Golf Society at just shy of 6 hours, haven't managed to get to many more after that, but I saw some comments about Esker Hills taking 5 hours recently so surely there are some culprits amoungst us ??

5 hours for any round of golf is inexcusable tbh- does everyone know that it's a stable ford comp rather than strokes, so just pick your ball up when you can't score, and that experienced guys point this out to possible new people to the game? What other reason is there for 5hr+ rounds in a society?

I was in first group out in esker hills and standing on 17th tee the second group out behind us hadn't reached the 16th tee which was a par 5.

alxmorgan · 02-04-2014 10:55AM

Dealerz wrote: »

5 hours for any round of golf is inexcusable tbh- does everyone know that it's a stable ford comp rather than strokes, so just pick your ball up when you can't score, and that experienced guys point this out to possible new people to the game? What other reason is there for 5hr+ rounds in a society?

I was in first group out in esker hills and standing on 17th tee the second group out behind us hadn't reached the 16th tee which was a par 5.

I've often wondered why society rounds in general take longer. My guess would be:
* Not knowing the course
* Varying levels of ability
* New golfers not au fait with what it takes to make sure you are not slow

GreeBo · 02-04-2014 10:59AM

Freemount09 wrote: »

Thbut I saw some comments about Esker Hills taking 5 hours recently so surely there are some culprits amoungst us ??

I played Esker Hills on Sunday, in a two ball, in a buggy and it still took over 5 hours. Blind shots everywhere on an unknown course do that. I wont even comment on having to search for your ball on the "fairway"...

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I don't think I am the fastest player around, infact I am quite deliberate with my putting routine but I make up for that elsewhere, I agree that this idea of playing order is not really necessary outside of match play, where it can have a huge bearing on strategy.

I'd be careful about this. I dont think you can make up for it elsewhere really. For example, it doesnt make up for being a slow putter if you walk faster than average between shots as your group will still be as slow as the slowest player, at each stage of the hole. Its no good you sprinting to your drive and then having to wait for everyone else anyway. Then they all wait for you on the green. (not saying you do btw! Hopefully you get what I mean)

Dealerz · 02-04-2014 11:02AM

Good God man, 5 hrs in a buggy in a two ball?? There are maps at the back of every tee box- what else do you need?

Oilbeefhooked! · 02-04-2014 11:05AM

Russman wrote: »

Totally agree that slow play is one of the biggest issues facing the game right now.

Another issue at club level, and its a hard one to bring up or deal with, everyone gives out about slow play, but most of the slow players don't think they are slow and have no idea they're holding up the course.

I think your spot on there,and this to me is at the very heart of the problem -
I've played with a lot of guys who are full of advise around the course and will happily share their thoughts and disgust at the slow play plague ........ and im scratching my head thinking but YOU ARE SLOW!
you only started taking your glove off and lining up your putt once the 3 others in the group had putted,your filling in the scorecard when you should be driving,your plodding up to your ball telling stories as you go,the way you only check your yardage and choose your club when its your turn from the fairway!!
My point is , these golfers, because they dont actually take an age actually playing their shot - Believe they are NOT part of the slow play problem,
when in fact they are the crux of the problem.
Yes bags on wrong side of greens,looking for balls, etc are issues - but if every golfer was aware and totally ready when it becomes there turn to play whether on the tee,fairway or green and executed said shot in 20 seconds.
Then all the other issues would fade into insignificance IMO.
ps. I also agree it needs to become more acceptable to pull someone up on it also, its easy to say you should but noboby wants to play 18 holes in a bad atmosphere if a playing partner were to take the hump at being call out.

DuckSlice · 02-04-2014 11:06AM

Slow walkers are what really annoy me, if you are wuick to your ball then you could probably take a slightly longer shot routine. I'm always quick up to the ball take my shot and off again. My trolley is always on number 7/8 out of nine so it's quite fast. A guy I play with, who is a lot fitter than me just strolls around, so annoying. But as greebo said if there is one slow person in the group it doesn't matter how quick I are to you ball you will still be waiting on them!

People who go through the back of the green going with just their wedge to chip and then having to walk back to their bags for their putters!

Guys that roll a putt one foot past or one foot short, marking it picking out a line again and going through a full routine. Hate that!

A 2 ball with that doesn't get held up should be around in 3 to 3 and a quarter hours. 4 ball should be around the 4, depends on length of course too.

josie19 · 02-04-2014 11:09AM

mike12 wrote: »

Played with a high handicapper who had lessons so he had a full minute of a pre shot routine, he then duff's it infront of him and goes thru it again next ball OB drops one and goes thru the pre shot routine again. 3/4 mins and he hadn't moved.
To be honest the small things add up in a round, when I play in my regular 4ball I am the fastest so I play out of turn almost every hole. Small things like marking short putts, bag on the wrong side of the green waiting for the last person to mark their ball after they have chipped on someone should mark it for them if they have to move their bag around to the correct side of the green, putt out of turn if you are ready.
Things that delay the group 20 or 30 seconds 2 or 3 time a hole will add up to 20 plus minutes over a round.
Another big one is watch the ball sometimes it is hard to keep an eye on your own ball with a low sun and you see groups and not 1 of them have a clue where the ball has gone.

As long as you're not playing with Slave1. He'll be hitting while your ball is in the air

We Need To Talk About Slow Play

Comments