Do you find "do-gooders" or overly "right on" people annoying?

Soft Falling Rain · 28-03-2014 05:41PM

I have no problem with "do-gooders" as you could probably call me one (I volunteered to a cause for quite a while).

I do, however, have a problem with two types of do gooder:

1) The ones who feel that the only way to make their point is to be loud and obnoxious to those who disagree with them, and

2) The ones who are "politically correct" on every subject you can imagine, as that's the only way they can stay a member of the cool kids gang.

I mean don't be afraid to have your own opinion instead of acting like you're on autopilot.

padd b1975 · 28-03-2014 05:41PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Heard a texter complain on a radio show (the Global Village on Newstalk....their heart is basically in the right place, but they don't half talk some rubbish) that it was so hard being the only one in her family/circle of friends with an interest in social justice, everyone else wasn't interested, but she would soldier on regardless.

Nearly crashed the car guffawwwing. How much in love with yourself do you have to be think that you're the only one you know interested in helping people!!

I'm pretty sure good ol' Dil would find some empathy.

She honestly believes there was no such thing as social justice in Ireland until she mooched her way onto the airwaves.

She's pretty much a classic example of the type of loon the OP describes.:cool:

suicide_circus · 28-03-2014 05:59PM

in my experience, many of these amateur sociopolitical activist groups (socialist youth, pro/anti abortion types, anti war, save the whales, nuke the whales, jihadists, student unions etc.) are meccas for friendless social oddballs and generally crusty weirdos who dont actually give a **** about the issue at hand, they just crave acceptance and a soapbox so that someone will finally notice they are alive. if ones presses them to elaborate on their "beliefs" you find that their knowledge is superficial at best. sad.

GalwayGuy2 · 28-03-2014 06:07PM

Meh, these sort of people are more interested in their own self-worth/validation/superiority than actually solving any problems.

Also, they're the sort of people who would hate a group of people just because it's popularity. I was watching an Interview with Ryan Mcklemore and I can't help but think he's that sort of person.

metaoblivia · 28-03-2014 06:11PM

I consider myself a liberal and a feminist, but I know what you're talking about. Probably because I'm on tumblr, and I follow some of these social justice blogs. It's sort of a love-hate relationship. Sometimes, there's a good point in there. But many times, it's just one sided rants with most of the facts taken completely out of context. And to watch them rant against stereotypes and generalizations against minority groups while at the same time doing the very same to privileged groups (usually cis white men, but really, any white people) is something to behold. There's a very special disconnect there.

And I find that a lot with social justice people. There's just a disconnect. I have a friend who's really into it. She was up in arms about the US figure skating team selection because it was racist that they chose the white girl who finished 2nd over the Asian girl who finished 3rd. She's removed all "ableist" language from her vocabulary. She was offended by all of those Harlem shake videos because it was white people appropriating African American culture.

And yet, at a small get together I had a few weeks ago, she told us her childhood neighborhood had been nice until the black people started moving in. That's exactly how she said it. And she meant it. As if that alone wasn't awful enough, there was a black guest at the party, and she made no attempt to apologize to him for what she said (which had clearly offended him even though he didn't make a big deal out of it). It was just shocking to hear that come from someone who supposedly makes such an effort to be language sensitive. Disconnect.

WakeUp · 28-03-2014 06:25PM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

2014- gay marriage and Panti Luther King is their buzz

2013- Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning are their heroes. The NSA and Obama are the root of all evil.

2012- They supported Occupy. The movement against nothing in particular.

2012- Let's raise FB awareness about Kony!!!!!!! KONY!!!!! KONY2012!!!!

2008- Go Obama go! The hero of the world* (see 2013 for comparison)

2003- Protested against the war in Iraq, because it was cool. They might like to forget it but every major left leaning paper in the UK repeated the WMD claims as unchallenged fact in the run up.

2000- Rocking the oul charity bracelets to raise "awareness", whatever that means.

Throughout the last 14 years- goes to any legalise cannabis/ abortion march you can find.

I swear if kicking puppys to death became fashionable next year the same folks would be on it.

Theres so much wrong with this post where to even begin. Doesnt look like you engaged your brain much before posting perhaps you are too busy and consumed with more important things like splitting the atom. Actually on second thoughts maybe not.

My name is URL · 28-03-2014 06:38PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Heard a texter complain on a radio show (the Global Village on Newstalk....their heart is basically in the right place, but they don't half talk some rubbish) that it was so hard being the only one in her family/circle of friends with an interest in social justice, everyone else wasn't interested, but she would soldier on regardless.

Nearly crashed the car guffawwwing. How much in love with yourself do you have to be think that you're the only one you know interested in helping people!!

The Global Village in general makes me want to drive off a steep pier. Honestly the biggest load of shite on Irish airwaves.

I reckon Denis O'Brien has it on just to take the piss of liberal lefties.

KyussBishop · 28-03-2014 06:39PM

I know the type, though not from personal experience, but almost as bad I think would be those who take those overly fake/obnoxious/unthinking 'right-on' types, and portray them as being representative of those they disagree with - generally those who fall on 'the left'.

It's something you see a lot on debates here, with protesting in general, being disparaged by associating people with the types mentioned in the OP, even when the comparison is a pure straw-man than isn't representative of the person being criticized.

In other words, the "all protesters are crusties" types, are almost equally as bad as the extreme 'right-on' types.

Muise... · 28-03-2014 06:40PM

metaoblivia wrote: »

I consider myself a liberal and a feminist, but I know what you're talking about. Probably because I'm on tumblr, and I follow some of these social justice blogs. It's sort of a love-hate relationship. Sometimes, there's a good point in there. But many times, it's just one sided rants with most of the facts taken completely out of context. And to watch them rant against stereotypes and generalizations against minority groups while at the same time doing the very same to privileged groups (usually cis white men, but really, any white people) is something to behold. There's a very special disconnect there.

oh noes, you accidentally pushed my kneejerk rightwing button. Reset! Reset!

RayM · 28-03-2014 06:45PM

My name is URL wrote: »

The Global Village in general makes me want to drive off a steep pier. Honestly the biggest load of shite on Irish airwaves. I reckon Dennis O'Brien has it on to take the piss of liberal lefties.

Oh, that programme annoys me so much. I have to say, as a straight, white, Irish male, I find it disgraceful that Newstalk only aims 99% of its programming towards me. It's a disgrace that Newstalk has no programming at all (apart from Ivan Yates, Pat Kenny, George Hook, Marc Coleman, etc) aimed towards boorish, God-fearing, right-wing, climate-change-denying, straight, middle-class, white males. Disgraceful, that's what it is.

And of course, the liberal-left-feminist-brigade-brigade will now accuse me of overreacting. They'll tell my that my hatred of a single weekly, off-peak, 2-hour show aimed towards so-called "minorities" is ridiculously irrational. They'll even have the gall to tell straight, white males that we aren't the most discriminated-against group in society.

To be honest, it's disgraceful.

fedor.2. · 28-03-2014 06:47PM

metaoblivia wrote: »

I consider myself a liberal and a feminist, but I know what you're talking about. Probably because I'm on tumblr, and I follow some of these social justice blogs. It's sort of a love-hate relationship. Sometimes, there's a good point in there. But many times, it's just one sided rants with most of the facts taken completely out of context. And to watch them rant against stereotypes and generalizations against minority groups while at the same time doing the very same to privileged groups (usually cis white men, but really, any white people) is something to behold. There's a very special disconnect there.

And I find that a lot with social justice people. There's just a disconnect. I have a friend who's really into it. She was up in arms about the US figure skating team selection because it was racist that they chose the white girl who finished 2nd over the Asian girl who finished 3rd. She's removed all "ableist" language from her vocabulary. She was offended by all of those Harlem shake videos because it was white people appropriating African American culture.

And yet, at a small get together I had a few weeks ago, she told us her childhood neighborhood had been nice until the black people started moving in. That's exactly how she said it. And she meant it. As if that alone wasn't awful enough, there was a black guest at the party, and she made no attempt to apologize to him for what she said (which had clearly offended him even though he didn't make a big deal out of it). It was just shocking to hear that come from someone who supposedly makes such an effort to be language sensitive. Disconnect.

Fcuk sake

Donkey Oaty · 28-03-2014 06:48PM

My name is URL wrote: »

The Global Village in general makes me want to drive off a steep pier. Honestly the biggest load of shite on Irish airwaves.

I reckon Denis O'Brien has it on just to take the piss of liberal lefties.

There's some definite box-ticking going on with that programme.

Have you seen the awards it has received?

Voice Media Award 2012, (Broadcast Category) - Headline and See Change
Certificate of Merit 2010 and 2011, Justice Media – Irish Law Society
Winner of the Broadcast Media 2011 - Media & Multicultural Awards
Certificate of Merit for MAMA 2008 – Media & Multicultural Awards

Donkey Oaty · 28-03-2014 06:50PM

RayM wrote: »

I have to say, as a straight, white, Irish male, I find it disgraceful that Newstalk only aims 99% of its programming towards me.

Hang on Ray - Global Village is definitely aimed at straight, white, Irish males.

That's the problem.

Muise... · 28-03-2014 06:53PM

KyussBishop wrote: »

I know the type, though not from personal experience, but almost as bad I think would be those who take those overly fake/obnoxious/unthinking 'right-on' types, and portray them as being representative of those they disagree with - generally those who fall on 'the left'.

It's something you see a lot on debates here, with protesting in general, being disparaged by associating people with the types mentioned in the OP, even when the comparison is a pure straw-man than isn't representative of the person being criticized.

In other words, the "all protesters are crusties" types, are almost equally as bad as the extreme 'right-on' types.

Do you mean the threads where people disagree about the need to protest, and a few people throw in personal digs at the protesters? Because this one is actually about a certain type of protester, and you're throwing in your dig at the other threads.

Also, judging protests by the protesters is more ad hominem than straw-man.

My name is URL · 28-03-2014 06:53PM

RayM wrote: »

Oh, that programme annoys me so much. I have to say, as a straight, white, Irish male, I find it disgraceful that Newstalk only aims 99% of its programming towards me. It's a disgrace that Newstalk has no programming at all (apart from Ivan Yates, Pat Kenny, George Hook, Marc Coleman, etc) aimed towards boorish, God-fearing, right-wing, climate-change-denying, straight, middle-class, white males. Disgraceful, that's what it is.

And of course, the liberal-left-feminist-brigade-brigade will now accuse me of overreacting. They'll tell my that my hatred of a single weekly, off-peak, 2-hour show aimed towards so-called "minorities" is ridiculously irrational. They'll even have the gall to tell straight, white males that we aren't the most discriminated-against group in society.

To be honest, it's disgraceful.

I'm surprised you haven't told me to check my privilege :P

btw, you seriously think that show is aimed at minority groups? lmao.. It's aimed at those who like to be offended and outraged over perceived injustices.

RayM · 28-03-2014 07:00PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm surprised you haven't told me to check my privilege :P

btw, you seriously think that show is aimed at minority groups? lmao.. It's aimed at those who like to be offended and outraged over perceived injustices.

Judging by some people's over-the-top reactions to it, I suspect a lot of people who listen to it do so because they get a kick out of being outraged and offended by views which differ from theirs.

Donkey Oaty · 28-03-2014 07:02PM

RayM wrote: »

Judging by some people's over-the-top reactions to it, I suspect a lot of people who listen to it do so because they get a kick out of being outraged and offended by views which differ from theirs.

You got it. There is no other conceivable reason.

GalwayGuy2 · 28-03-2014 07:12PM

Do you mean the threads where people disagree about the need to protest, and a few people throw in personal digs at the protesters? Because this one is actually about a certain type of protester, and you're throwing in your dig at the other threads. Also, judging protests by the protesters is more ad hominem than straw-man.

A dig at a dig of someone making a dig.

I can dig it. :cool:

KyussBishop · 28-03-2014 07:13PM

Muise... wrote: »

Do you mean the threads where people disagree about the need to protest, and a few people throw in personal digs at the protesters? Because this one is actually about a certain type of protester, and you're throwing in your dig at the other threads. Also, judging protests by the protesters is more ad hominem than straw-man.

It's a bit of both - mainly an ad-hominem, but also a straw-man by attributing naive 'right-on' views to the people protesting, and disparaging protesting because of that, rather than looking at the legitimate reasons for protesting that the poster really holds.

Sure, a lot of posters are just having a go at that particular type of protester - a lot of them also, when you press them, seem to have more of a problem with protesting itself altogether, and just use naive/obnoxious 'right-on' types (or 'crusties' as they usually label them) as a handy target, for disparaging protesting overall.

So, when you see disparagement of 'crusties' in a thread, it's often not all about just one type of protester, but about protesting itself - this doesn't apply to all people who like to label people crusties, but usually there are those (a minority I would say) who use it as a convenient proxy for arguing against protesting itself.

Muise... · 28-03-2014 07:19PM

KyussBishop wrote: »

It's a bit of both - mainly an ad-hominem, but also a straw-man by attributing naive 'right-on' views to the people protesting, and disparaging protesting because of that, rather than looking at the legitimate reasons for protesting that the poster really holds.

Sure, a lot of posters are just having a go at that particular type of protester - a lot of them also, when you press them, seem to have more of a problem with protesting itself altogether, and just use naive/obnoxious 'right-on' types (or 'crusties' as they usually label them) as a handy target, for disparaging protesting overall.

So, when you see disparagement of 'crusties' in a thread, it's usually not all all about just one type of protester, but about protesting itself - this doesn't apply to all people who like to label people crusties, but usually there are those who use it as a convenient proxy for arguing against protesting itself.

I don't have the time or energy to go back and parse them all, but my impression was that on those "why bother protesting" threads, most posters did not see the current socio-economic and political situations in Ireland as worth protesting against. It gets bogged down into methods and name-calling after a while, which is unpleasant if you feel strongly about it, but I think you're mixing up the message and medium here.

WilyCoyote · 28-03-2014 07:32PM

RayM wrote: »

Judging by some people's over-the-top reactions to it, I suspect a lot of people who listen to it do so because they get a kick out of being outraged and offended by views which differ from theirs.

Now you're sucking diesel RayM. Indignation - both the natural and manufactured

benway · 28-03-2014 07:33PM

RayM wrote: »

And while we're on the topic of feminists not being happy. I've always found that self-consciously anti-PC types are rarely full of the joys of spring themselves. Utterly humourless and always giving out about something... usually the fact that the imaginary PC brigade prevents them from expressing the kind of opinions that they express with monotonous regularity.

And just to add to that, the "university of life and school of hard knocks" brigade who like to bleat on about how things work in the "real world", but when it gets down to it, it inevitably becomes clear that their idea of the "real world" is gleaned from the pages of some tabloid rather than in any way being based on their own experience. Inevitably, their close connection to the "real world" is expressed through some kind of bitter tirade about how easy the rest of the world supposedly has it, from prisoners to people on social welfare. A penchant for attacking imaginary targets in brave defiance of imagined PC conventions doesn't seem to be much of an indicator of a happy life to me.

tl;dr

Angry, bitter, resentful, always ready with an attack on an easy target < naive, annoying but ultimately well intentioned

GalwayGuy2 · 28-03-2014 09:48PM

Angry, bitter, resentful, always ready with an attack on an easy target < naive, annoying but ultimately well intentioned

Tbh, the part in bold can fit the Justice folk as much as it can the right wingers.

Spunge · 28-03-2014 10:04PM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

2014- gay marriage and Panti Luther King is their buzz

2013- Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning are their heroes. The NSA and Obama are the root of all evil.

2012- They supported Occupy. The movement against nothing in particular.

2012- Let's raise FB awareness about Kony!!!!!!! KONY!!!!! KONY2012!!!!

2008- Go Obama go! The hero of the world* (see 2013 for comparison)

2003- Protested against the war in Iraq, because it was cool. They might like to forget it but every major left leaning paper in the UK repeated the WMD claims as unchallenged fact in the run up.

2000- Rocking the oul charity bracelets to raise "awareness", whatever that means.

Throughout the last 14 years- goes to any legalise cannabis/ abortion march you can find.

I swear if kicking puppys to death became fashionable next year the same folks would be on it.

Looks like a summary of reddit's front page

Mint Aero · 28-03-2014 10:09PM

They don't bother me at all, I don't agree with their views on anything generally, don't respect their opinions either so I've very little to be concerned about from leftists feminists. I love c*nts.

benway · 28-03-2014 10:32PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Tbh, the part in bold can fit the Justice folk as much as it can the right wingers.

To be fair, you couldn't say that the likes of corporate power or patriarchy are easy targets by comparison with, y'know, de uppity wimminz, de gayz, darkies, pavees, foreigners, dole bludgers .... etc., ad infinitum.

I also really don't get the same level of bitterness from the save the world crowd as from the "it's all a joke, Joe, they get away with murder" brigade, funnily enough, much as the former's earnestness might irritate at times.

So, no, I can't say I agree.

Bafucin · 28-03-2014 10:43PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I'm friends with an awful lot of what you might call "social justice warriors" from back in my college days. These people would be politically obsessed, generally leftish feminist types who live on a soapbox most of the time. The type that would call someone out for using the word "c*nt" on their facebook status in a derogatory manner because one must not refer to a part of the female anatomy in a negative sense because it's a microaggession or something. The type that tend to be out protesting a lot, and live their lives mostly offended by what they see around them. The type that can't seem to type a status or a tweet about anything without prefacing it with "Trigger Warning: XYZ". Politically correct to a tee, and annoyed that the world isn't as politically correct as they are.

The funny thing is, I genuinely get and accept that they are trying to make the world a better place in their own way. I might even agree with the overall thrust or message they are trying to get out. But by jaysus sometimes I find myself rolling my eyes at them!

If you make the mistake of questioning their zeal over a specific issue or trying to engage with them about this stuff, you get met with at best a passive-aggressive statement such as "it's not my job to educate you" or at worst an outright accusation that you need to "check your privilege" - and then that tends to be that, so I've sort of stopped bothering trying to engage with them on these issues. This article sort of sums up the attitude I'm talking about.

Anyone else find do-gooders on a soapbox annoying despite basically agreeing with them on many issues?

I find the opposite annoying the 'apathy is cool gang.'

Foxhound38 · 28-03-2014 11:53PM

metaoblivia wrote: »

I consider myself a liberal and a feminist, but I know what you're talking about. Probably because I'm on tumblr, and I follow some of these social justice blogs. It's sort of a love-hate relationship. Sometimes, there's a good point in there. But many times, it's just one sided rants with most of the facts taken completely out of context. And to watch them rant against stereotypes and generalizations against minority groups while at the same time doing the very same to privileged groups (usually cis white men, but really, any white people) is something to behold. There's a very special disconnect there.

And I find that a lot with social justice people. There's just a disconnect. I have a friend who's really into it. She was up in arms about the US figure skating team selection because it was racist that they chose the white girl who finished 2nd over the Asian girl who finished 3rd. She's removed all "ableist" language from her vocabulary. She was offended by all of those Harlem shake videos because it was white people appropriating African American culture.

And yet, at a small get together I had a few weeks ago, she told us her childhood neighborhood had been nice until the black people started moving in. That's exactly how she said it. And she meant it. As if that alone wasn't awful enough, there was a black guest at the party, and she made no attempt to apologize to him for what she said (which had clearly offended him even though he didn't make a big deal out of it). It was just shocking to hear that come from someone who supposedly makes such an effort to be language sensitive. Disconnect.

This - this is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about!

Femme_Fatale · 28-03-2014 11:56PM

Yeh I have no time for any extremists who won't consider other points of view to theirs, and that includes "liberal"/left-wing ones. Can't abide folks like the ULA.

ivytwine · 29-03-2014 01:39AM

One of the more formative experiences of my young years was the war in Iraq. I was a total hippy as a child, and I very strongly believed that the war was wrong (I still do, but anyway). I went to the big protest in Dublin at age 14. I thought we would make a difference. I thought all the people who had taken time out of their day in all the cities of Europe and beyond would actually stop this war.

The day America bombed Iraq was the day I stopped believing that I could change a damn thing outside my very limited sphere of influence. And that, in my opinion, is the best lesson a human being can get.

I think a lot of the people Foxtrot refers are naive in the extreme. If you ask them for an alternative they can't give one, as another poster mentioned earlier re the immigration issue. I remember asking one guy about how an alternative to capitalism would work, and he could not answer.

A lecturer of mine, lovely man, very left-wing, argued about the evils of the schooling system of the city I went to college in. And he was sending his kids to an exclusive private school. It's that kind of thing that makes you wonder.

People-on both left and right- who are extremists leave no room for human nature or emotion and that I think is their biggest failing. That's why communism never worked. In theory it works, as Homer Simpson once said. But it's human nature to take and be greedy and want more. People with narrow tunnel vision can't see that.

I think Brendan Behan sums up my viewpoint nicely:

“I respect kindness in human beings first of all, and kindness to animals. I don't respect the law; I have a total irreverence for anything connected with society except that which makes the roads safer, the beer stronger, the food cheaper and the old men and old women warmer in the winter and happier in the summer.”

Do you find "do-gooders" or overly "right on" people annoying?

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