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MMR Vaccine

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    #62
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Terry Gilliam Beard wrote: »
    Any chance you'll explain your nonsense about mercury too?

    Vaccines contain mercury.


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    #63
    Terry Gilliam Beard
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Terry Gilliam Beard


    Jumboman wrote: »
    No I don't blindly believe anyone. But I would listen to a bum on the street before I would listen to pharmaceutical rep or anyone that has financial connections to that industry.
    So you don't believe anything to do with 20th/21st century medicine? You haven't taken any anti-biotics, or given them to your kids? Have you vaccinated them against polio, or tetanus?


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    #64
    Terry Gilliam Beard
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Terry Gilliam Beard


    Jumboman wrote: »
    Vaccines contain mercury.
    All of them?


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    #65
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Jumboman wrote: »
    Vaccines contain mercury.
    Some of them do (multi-dose vials), as a preservative. Others don't. What about the ones that don't, are they still bad?


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    #66
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Jumboman wrote: »
    There is an unhealthy relationship between the medical profession and the pharmaceutical industry.

    As compared to someone who sells the "natural" cures they promote?

    Incredible set of unreconcilable dual standards you've got there.


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    #67
    Terry Gilliam Beard
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Terry Gilliam Beard


    MYOB wrote: »
    As compared to someone who sells the "natural" cures they promote?

    Incredible set of unreconcilable dual standards you've got there.
    I wish I could argue with this point, but I'm currently browsing the "ultra clean functional mushrooms"* being advertised on Natural News...

    *this is not a joke


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    #68
    Taco Chips
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Taco Chips


    Jumboman wrote: »
    Vaccines contain mercury.

    As can many types of fish. You can't just throw out 'mercury' as an argument.


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    #69
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Taco Chips wrote: »
    As can many types of fish. You can't just throw out 'mercury' as an argument.

    No point debating anything reasonable to be honest. People like Jumboman have a fixed perspective that won't change. It's incorrect and crazy, but what can you do...


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    #70
    Terry Gilliam Beard
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Terry Gilliam Beard


    Nonoperational wrote: »
    No point debating anything reasonable to be honest. People like Jumboman have a fixed perspective that won't change. It's incorrect and crazy, but what can you do...
    It's hard to resist. He's a bit like those guys who predict doomsday every couple of months, there's no point in talking to them either, but you have to try. At least you might stop them hurting other people with their idiotic beliefs.


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    #71
    GardenMadness
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭GardenMadness


    Terry Gilliam Beard wrote: »
    I wish I could argue with this point, but I'm currently browsing the "ultra clean functional mushrooms"* being advertised on Natural News...

    *this is not a joke

    Ultra clean functional mushrooms? I've been looking for those everywhere!


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    #72
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    A relative in Canada has told me that there there are outbreaks of chickenpox and measles in young adults that are causing serious health issues. Young males especially are suffering.

    All the victims were vaccinated as children so does this mean it is not life long as protection?

    Please do not ask me for links; I have minimal internet access.

    In the end al of this is parental choice after all. Many of us do not see medicine and drs as infallible and that is also individual choice.


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    #73
    trace51
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭trace51


    http://thesciencebit.net/2012/04/13/homeopathy-vaccination-autism-together-again/

    It is interesting that these same arguments against the MMR have been made since vaccines first began. I was at a lecture given by the author of the blog I linked to a few years ago, if I remember correctly he had a graph showing that as anti-vax groups become more common, uptake of vaccines reduces and outbreaks of disease increase. Uptake then increases again following the outbreaks, outbreaks decrease and anti-vax groups start their work again. It seems anti-vax groups are only effective at recruiting followers while the disease is being controlled by the vaccine!


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    #74
    Terry Gilliam Beard
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Terry Gilliam Beard


    Graces7 wrote: »
    All the victims were vaccinated as children so does this mean it is not life long as protection?
    This is an effect of the loss of herd immunity.


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    #75
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The chickenpox vaccine is a relatively recent addition to the market let alone vaccination schedules; so unless the outbreak is amongst the absolute borderline of what'd be considered "young adults" medically I suspect they weren't vaccinated as children.


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    #76
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    MYOB wrote: »
    The chickenpox vaccine is a relatively recent addition to the market let alone vaccination schedules; so unless the outbreak is amongst the absolute borderline of what'd be considered "young adults" medically I suspect they weren't vaccinated as children.

    They were vaccinated, but of course you would find a "logical " explanation:rolleyes:


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    #77
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Terry Gilliam Beard wrote: »
    This is an effect of the loss of herd immunity.


    ??? :rolleyes:

    Why did I ask!


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    #78
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Graces7 wrote: »
    They were vaccinated, but of course you would find a "logical " explanation:rolleyes:
    Graces7 wrote: »
    ??? :rolleyes:

    Why did I ask!

    I guess you asked to get an answer? Or maybe just to pick an argument.

    No vaccine is 100% effective even for those who are vaccinated. Most vaccines require a booster dose later in childhood in order to maximise protection. Protection from vaccines may wane over time, meaning those who were vaccinated as children, may lose some immunity later in life.
    All of the above are good reasons to aim for a high level of herd immunity. As well as of course being able to offer some protection to children and adults who are unable to be vaccinated due to age or medical reasons.

    So to answer your question:

    Those who got chicken pox or measles may not have been vaccinated in the first place (you have no link for the information, so I'd have to take the assertion that 'they were all vaccinated' as suspicious)

    Those who got chicken pox or measles may not have received the recommended booster vaccination.

    Those who got chicken pox or measles may not have been 'responders' to the vaccine at all.

    Those who got chicken pox or measles immunity may have waned over the years since their vaccination, leaving them again susceptable to infection.


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    #79
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Graces7 wrote: »
    They were vaccinated, but of course you would find a "logical " explanation:rolleyes:

    Evidence please. Similar attitude you have to our other "natural" troll I see.

    As an aside - do you even have the vaguest clue about when varicella vaccination became available?


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    #80
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    MYOB wrote: »
    Evidence please. Similar attitude you have to our other "natural" troll I see.

    As an aside - do you even have the vaguest clue about when varicella vaccination became available?

    If you have a problem with a post report it, accusing other posters of trolling is not allowed


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    #81
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    Jumboman wrote: »
    ...I just don't blindly believe what the media...say.

    So you say, but then...
    Jumboman wrote: »
    I remember reading that he died of an asthma attack and ...








    I think MYOB has said it most succinctly here:
    MYOB wrote: »
    ...Incredible set of unreconcilable dual standards you've got there.


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    #82
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Graces7 wrote: »
    A relative in Canada has told me that there there are outbreaks of chickenpox and measles in young adults that are causing serious health issues. Young males especially are suffering.

    All the victims were vaccinated as children so does this mean it is not life long as protection?

    Please do not ask me for links; I have minimal internet access.

    In the end al of this is parental choice after all. Many of us do not see medicine and drs as infallible and that is also individual choice.

    Yes, and that's the issue. Why should a child be at increased risk of harm because his/her parents are stupid/uneducated/crazy?


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    #83
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    locum-motion wrote: »
    So you say, but then...


    :


    I didnt read that on a mainstream news website it was from somebody who acutally knew the man who died.

    I would like to say more but I'm not allowed to have an opinion unless its supported by "peer reviewed scientific articles" (which are funded by the drug companies).


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    #84
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Nonoperational wrote: »
    Yes, and that's the issue. Why should a child be at increased risk of harm because his/her parents are stupid/uneducated/crazy?


    You will find that people who dont vaccinate their kids actually take the time to do their own research. There are far from uneducated.


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    #85
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    Jumboman wrote: »
    ... "peer reviewed scientific articles" (which are funded by the drug companies).

    Eh... No, they're not.


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    #86
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    locum-motion wrote: »
    Eh... No, they're not.

    So drug companies dont fund clinical trials ?


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    #87
    Terry Gilliam Beard
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Terry Gilliam Beard


    Jumboman wrote: »
    So drug companies dont fund clinical trials ?
    Who do you think should fund them?

    I don't know, call me stupid, but I'd swear that medical technology has come on in leaps and bounds under the current system that you think is a total fraud, as evidenced by people living longer and longer, in spite of far less healthy diets than in the past.

    It's almost like your claims fly in the face of the most obvious evidence there is. Or perhaps you think it's because we are all buying functional mushrooms and colloidal silver from your pals at Natural News?


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    #88
    Vorsprung
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭Vorsprung


    Jumboman wrote: »
    So drug companies dont fund clinical trials ?

    Of course they fund clinical trials! Do they fund all clinical trials? Of course not.

    Are there any trials in particular which you find objectionable?

    Are there any peer reviewed articles which support you point of view? Note you have been asked about before!


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    #89
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Vorsprung wrote: »
    Of course they fund clinical trials! Do they fund all clinical trials? Of course not.

    Are there any trials in particular which you find objectionable?

    Are there any peer reviewed articles which support you point of view? Note you have been asked about before!

    One word vioxx. We were told by the "experts" that it was safe and anyone else who said otherwise was part of the tin foil hat brigade.


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    #90
    Terry Gilliam Beard
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Terry Gilliam Beard


    Jumboman wrote: »
    One word vioxx. We were told by the "experts" that it was safe and anyone else who said otherwise was part of the tin foil hat brigade.
    And the fact that people are living longer than ever despite less healthy diet and exercise?

    *IGNORE*


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    #91
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Jumboman wrote: »
    One word vioxx. We were told by the "experts" that it was safe and anyone else who said otherwise was part of the tin foil hat brigade.

    So, I take it that's a "No, I don't have a shred of evidence" then?


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