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Is it 'wrong' for a female teacher to be with a male student?

135

Comments

  • #62
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Anyone here wonder whether in some cases the legal aftermath of the act, e.g. trial/prosecution/dismissal, public condemnation, etc, might do far more damage to the student than the relationship itself?

    Are the student's views ever taken into account before proceeding with prosecutions or tribunals? They certainly should be.


  • #63
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Anyone here wonder whether in some cases the legal aftermath of the act, e.g. trial/prosecution/dismissal, public condemnation, etc, might do far more damage to the student than the relationship itself?

    Are the student's views ever taken into account before proceeding with prosecutions or tribunals? They certainly should be.

    Minors are never identified unless it's a kidnapping type case.

    I don't think it's a good idea to ask the minor's view on things, firstly if they were groomed they may not want to proceed and secondly it would not be constructive in protecting possible future victims.


  • #64
    Stainless_Steel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭Stainless_Steel


    tritium wrote: »
    Yeah...victimless.... Right.....

    If it was a male teacher would it still be victimless to you?

    If it was a female pupil would it still seem victimless to you?

    Of course not. But the lad would be delighted with himself. Fact.


  • #65
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Minors are never identified unless it's a kidnapping type case.

    Not identified in the press, it is true, but sometimes they sure as hell will be in the school and local community.
    TheZohan wrote: »
    I don't think it's a good idea to ask the minor's view on things, firstly if they were groomed they may not want to proceed...

    I'm not talking about the grooming cases, but even with them, I think the law should be on their side and put their interests first - and their views surely have to be taken into account.
    TheZohan wrote: »
    secondly it would not be constructive in protecting possible future victims.

    That's precisely my point. It should be about protecting students, and that includes protecting them from collateral damage.

    We're all on the side of justice, but for me that means putting the student first, and I'm not convinced that the law as it stands does that.


  • #66
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Legs.Eleven wrote: »
    You're an idiot.
    Leg(s)end. ;)

    <3


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  • #67
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    @Mods

    How is this thread still open?

    The OP has knowledge of a crime and knows that the person is in an environment where that crime could have a direct impact on people under than person's care.

    No names have been mentioned, but it's kind of strange that this is still up.


  • #68
    maguic24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭maguic24


    Stainless_Steel wrote: »
    Of course not. But the lad would be delighted with himself. Fact.

    Are you him? No matter if he was delighted or not :rolleyes:, he's a minor and she was in a position of authority. She took advantage of him and broke the law.


  • #69
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    maguic24 wrote: »
    No matter if he was delighted or not

    I'd say it matters to him.


  • #70
    maguic24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭maguic24


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    I'd say it matters to him.

    It still doesn't change the fact that what yer wan did was wrong.


  • #71
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    green_screen wrote: »
    Yeah, because adults having sex with kids is grand.
    Ffs. in threads like this with men as the perpetrator, people call for the man to be jailed. It shouldn't be any different because the sexual predator happens to be a woman.
    Victimless crime, my hole.
    tritium wrote: »
    Yeah...victimless.... Right.....
    If it was a male teacher would it still be victimless to you?

    THere's a thread on After Hours calling for sex offenders like this to be tortured and executed :rolleyes: I suspect very, very, very few would consider it victimless


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  • #72
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Same kinda logic as the thread about the TD who resigned: the boy would like it or wouldn't be that badly affected by it (not that that's a guarantee whatsoever) so it's ok. (In the case of the TD: it could have been worse, others did worse).

    The failure to even see how the above makes absolutely zero difference; the deed shouldn't be done in the first place by anyone, let alone someone in a position of "standing", is kinda alarming.
    Particularly when adults, even intelligent ones, aren't capable of seeing this...

    Failure to acknowledge that a boy could be sexually abused by a woman is depressing. What hope have boys who experience this?
    To me, the thought of a woman having sex with an underage boy is disgusting; even if he consents. If I had a son whom that happened to, I'd be utterly distraught. And on top of the devastation, it doesn't seem like there'd be much out there in terms of supportive attitudes... :-/


  • #73
    maguic24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭maguic24


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    THere's a thread on After Hours calling for sex offenders like this to be tortured and executed :rolleyes: I suspect very, very, very few would consider it victimless

    I wouldn't be so sure judging by some of the comments on this thread!!

    Seems like it's okay if you're a woman committing a crime but if you're a man, woah, different ball game.


  • #74
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Stainless_Steel wrote: »
    Of course not. But the lad would be delighted with himself. Fact.

    I'm sure you could say the same about many female students with a crush on a male teacher!

    A child doesn't always realise something is harmful or bad for them. Adults have a role to protect them from their lack of experience. Which is why its particularly disgusting to see that role abused by a sexual predator of any gender.


  • #75
    Mint Aero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭Mint Aero


    mike_ie wrote: »
    So my question is, is it considered less serious for a female teacher to have a relationship with a male student, than the other way around? Do we somehow see it as being less wrong? And all things being equal and all, is it?

    Men aren't the same as women.


  • #76
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    Same kinda logic as the thread about the TD who resigned: the boy would like it or wouldn't be that badly affected by it (not that that's a guarantee whatsoever) so it's ok. (In the case of the TD: it could have been worse, others did worse).

    Hmmm, you kind of lost me there?


  • #77
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Back in the late '80's/early '90's every female teacher in my secondary school was a hound, with no exceptions. One of them had even done 15 years in prison, FFS.
    I do remember going on a school trip though, and a few days later my mother asked me if I noticed anything between a certain male teacher and a certain female student. I knew nothing as it happened, and quickly forgot about it at the time.


  • #78
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    Hmmm, you kind of lost me there?
    The reception to both is "It's not that bad, therefore little or no wrong done", which is irrelevant, seeing as neither should have happened at all.


  • #79
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    The reception to both is "It's not that bad, therefore little or now wrong done", which is irrelevant, seeing as neither should have happened at all.

    It's totally relevant to the question the OP asked though, which was "Do you see it as being less wrong?"


  • #80
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    The reception to both is "It's not that bad, therefore little or now wrong done", which is irrelevant, seeing as neither should have happened at all.

    Hmmm, Okay.


  • #81
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    "Hmmm". :)


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  • #82
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    What's wrong with my Hmmmm :(


  • #83
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    what happened my post at the start of this thread?:confused:


  • #84
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    demanufactured wrote: »
    Give that kid his "Luckiest Boy In Australia Medal"

    Sorry deman, you're not allowed to consider or even have any opinion on the possibility that it didn't deeply traumatise him. You must take it as a given that he will be screwed up for the rest of his life.

    Edit: sorry, I'm not trying to be nasty here, just realistic. Bob Geldof had sex at the age of 13 with a much older woman, and he doesn't consider himself to have been a victim. I'm sure there are others.


  • #85
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Sorry deman, you're not allowed to consider or even have any opinion on the possibility that it didn't deeply traumatise him. You must take it as a given that he will be screwed up for the rest of his life.

    Edit: sorry, I'm not trying to be nasty here, just realistic. Bob Geldof had sex at the age of 13 with a much older woman, and he doesn't consider himself to have been a victim. I'm sure there are others.

    There may be. Male and female. That doesn't make it less wrong to sexually exploit a minor and abuse a position of trust. Yet for some reason certain posters who would have the pitchforks and burning brands out for a male teacher having sex with a female pupil seem to have a massive double standard when the gender roles are reversed.


  • #86
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Sorry deman, you're not allowed to consider or even have any opinion on the possibility that it didn't deeply traumatise him. You must take it as a given that he will be screwed up for the rest of his life.

    Edit: sorry, I'm not trying to be nasty here, just realistic. Bob Geldof had sex at the age of 13 with a much older woman, and he doesn't consider himself to have been a victim. I'm sure there are others.
    All people are saying is that it shouldn't be assumed it's always ok/enjoyable for a boy, and that it's wrong women face far, far lesser consequences than men would.
    Nobody's saying it's never enjoyable for a boy (or a girl) but a teacher still shouldn't be doing it.

    There's the Geldof story, then there's the author John Irving whom a woman in her 20s had sex with when he was 11 (stupid bitch) and he had difficulty dealing with it later on, even though he says it did feel good physically at the time. Emotionally/psychologically though, it has been a difficult one to process. Worse again when the attitude is "Waheeeeeey, lucky young fella!"


  • #87
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    tritium wrote: »
    massive double standard when the gender roles are reversed.

    It's true. Society doesn't treat these things as equal.

    When was the last time you heard about a man complaining of sexual harassment in the workplace by a woman? It's not taken seriously, simply because - for the most part - men would be really flattered by it, and if they weren't, they wouldn't be taken seriously.


  • #88
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Oh god, flattered by it. I'd assume a guy would not enjoy being groped in the workplace or have sexually provocative comments made to him. Surely the latter would just make anyone feel awkward/uncomfortable unless there's some form of prior agreement? (I'm not talking about bawdy banter that's just a bit of a laugh between workmates, but very invasive comments).
    And the former is putting your hand on someone intimately without invitation, which is obviously just wrong. :confused:


  • #89
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    All people are saying is that it shouldn't be assumed it's always ok/enjoyable for a boy

    You're saying that, and any reasonable person would surely agree.


  • #90
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Oh god, flattered by it.

    Mostly, yes, in my experience. It would be laughed off as embarrassing maybe, but it wouldn't have the threatening overtones that it would for the gender reversal.

    You can pick some extreme examples to prove your point, but it's crazy to say that men react in exactly the same way as women in these situations.

    They generally don't.


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  • #91
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    It's true. Society doesn't treat these things as equal.

    When was the last time you heard about a man complaining of sexual harassment in the workplace by a woman? It's not taken seriously, simply because - for the most part - men would be really flattered by it, and if they weren't, they wouldn't be taken seriously.


    You know that sounds remarkably like the way sexual harassment of women was viewed in the fifties when we look at shows like Mad Men -sure they like a little slap on the ass and all that crap

    Would you care to join us in the 21st century any time soon?


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