Is it 'wrong' for a female teacher to be with a male student?

Tokyo

Found out last night through facebook that my ex-girlfriend's sister is back in the classroom again after taking a four year 'break' from the profession.

Why am I surprised about this? Because when i was living there (australia) in 2010, and still seeing my ex, her sister had her teaching license revoked for having inappropriate contact with a student who was also a minor. Long story short, she got too close to a male student, they got involved, until the student's father walked in on them one day at an inopportune moment.

What bothered me at the time was that other than the teachers union stripping her license, there were no charges of inappropriate contact of any kind, it was kept very hush hush by both the union and her family, in fact her family was genuinely surprised that their precious daughter was punished at all. After a couple of weeks of having to listen to how their poor daughter was being victimised by the system and treated unfairly, I pointed out that had it been me, a 28 year old guy with a 15 year old girl, not only would I be losing my teaching license, but I'd be a publicly outed as a registered sex offender and quite possibly be doing a few months jail time for my troubles. My life as I knew it would be over. This of course was met with derision.

Now it seems she is back teaching again, which can only mean that she's somehow regained her teaching license, which sounds ridiculous to me.

So my question is, is it considered less serious for a female teacher to have a relationship with a male student, than the other way around? Do we somehow see it as being less wrong? And all things being equal and all, is it?

Agent Smith

Obligatory South park Reference :
"Nice..."

---

The teacher is in a position of Authority. Its incredibly inappropriate to have a relationship with the student. And She should be prosecuted, Especially if the student is a minor.

It seems to be seen as less of an offence for some reason, Like the woman last week in England who was got a 1 year sentence for sleeping with a 10 year old boy.

Sir Arthur Daley

Agent Smith wrote: »

Obligatory South park Reference :
"Nice..."

Borris Johnson - "Very Nice"

GenieOz

It is seen as less serious.
Should it be? No. But it is.

Equality.

D1stant

mike_ie wrote: »

So my question is, is it considered less serious for a female teacher to have a relationship with a male student, than the other way around? Do we somehow see it as being less wrong? And all things being equal and all, is it?

It is considered less serious. Anytime there is a case like this the majority of the comments are in the "fair play to the youngfella" vein to a greater or lesser degree depending on the attractiveness of the woman. Situation reversed and its paedophilia/rape

Its daft. Underage sex and abuse of power should not be gender-specific

Sleepy

I'm guessing the lack of charges being brought is how she's able to re-gain her license?

Honestly, I don't think she should be anywhere near a classroom but, if the boys family refused to prosecute, she's not technically "guilty" of anything so any permanent revocation of her license could be open to a legal challenge.

You're right though, the law surrounding both statutory and straight forward rape is blatantly sexist. Sure under Irish legislation, you can't rape someone unless you have a penis.

Tombi!

Yes, of course. And I'd question the maturity of anyone who says no.

That is, assuming the student is still in school; once they've graduated then it's not importat.

tritium

She's a sexual predator - abuse of power like that is pretty disgusting, especially if the lad was only 15 as you seem to imply

Her family are a bit blinkered to say the least

Someone should make sure her current school is aware of her past and are sure that she's legitimately allowed to teach

Tokyo

tritium wrote: »

She's a sexual predator - abuse of power like that is pretty disgusting, especially if the lad was only 15 as you seem to imply

Her family are a bit blinkered to say the least

Someone should make sure her current school is aware of her past and are sure that she's legitimately allowed to teach

Yes, she was 28 at the time, student was 15.

As for her family, they were an entity unto themselves. - their daughters could kill somebody, and it would still be the world's fault. Teaching association just wanted it to go away as quickly as possible as far as I remember, but the daughter had (a) been caught red-handed, and (b) had frantically told her family and other teachers in the school immediately in a blind panic.

Having said that, to her extended family and friends, she had just decided that 'she needed a break from teaching'.

GalwayGuy2

As long as it's consensual then it's grand, but stupid.

But since he's a minor, Hell no!

Btw, what sort of minor? Are we talking 18 in a 21 law, or a 14 in an 18 law?

Tokyo

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

As long as it's consensual then it's grand, but stupid.

But since he's a minor, Hell no!

Btw, what sort of minor? Are we talking 18 in a 21 law, or a 14 in an 18 law?

Australia, so you're considered a minor until you are 18. Age of consent in the state in question is 17. The student was 15, turning 16 at the time.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Firstly, fair play to you for speaking out and trying to show the family some sense. A lot of people would just have made sympathetic noises and played along.

Frankly it's disgusting. Apart from why any 28 year old in their right mind would want to spend time with a 15 year old, the fact that she was in a position of authority makes it completely unacceptable.

Did you say this was Australia? I know people on working holiday visas (this is about 10 years ago) who were not licenced teachers anywhere in the world, being given teaching jobs in secondary schools in Sydney. Perhaps she doesn't have her licence back....

Tokyo

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Firstly, fair play to you for speaking out and trying to show the family some sense. A lot of people would just have made sympathetic noises and played along.

I'm not going to lie - their attitudes to situations like this was a factor in me and my ex going our separate ways.

Did you say this was Australia? I know people on working holiday visas (this is about 10 years ago) who were not licenced teachers anywhere in the world, being given teaching jobs in secondary schools in Sydney. Perhaps she doesn't have her licence back....

Without giving away too much information, the school that she is starting with again wouldn't be able to take her on without a state license - I wondered about that too initially.

tylercheribini

if she is 28 and still single chances are she is kicked ugly and so desperate for her hole she will get off with 15 year old students and risk losing her job. Ive read about about quite a few of these cases in America and the vast majority of the female teachers in question were horrendous looking.

Scotty P

Tzardine wrote: »

Is she hot ?

If it was my son, this would be a big factor in me deciding if I was ok with it or not.

And if you had a daughter?

Would the teacher's good looks be a factor in how you felt also?

Gatling

So did anything physical actually happen ,
Or is it all hear say from one side or another

seamus

The entire area of sex offences is massively sexist in all regards. Although this seems to be an issue of "it only matters when it's a delicate little girl being abused by a teacher", in reality if you think about it, a 15 year old boy having an affair with a 30 year old female teacher gets winks and nods and smiles, whereas a 15 year old boy and a 30 year old male teacher will have people screaming paedo at him for the rest of his days.

This probably boils down to the ingrained idea that women are not sexual creatures and must be coerced into anything of that nature, whereas men are the opposite; insatiable sexual creatures who think about nothing else.

It's an attitude which is equally sexist against both genders, though it's men who suffer the most legally and socially because they're punished more severely and treated with more suspicion.

In reality a 15 year old girl is as likely to lead a teacher astray as a 15 year old boy, and equally a 40 year old female teacher is as capable of influencing a young student as a 40 year old male. The popular perception though would be that the latter is abusing his position whereas the former is a slave to her feelings and has just been unlucky to fall in love inappropriately.
Likewise with the children; young men are seen as sexually confident and capable of seducing a teacher, but young women are always seen as innocent flowers, vulnerable and malleable.

osarusan

Wrong, of course, where one is a minor, like in a secondary school /high/junior high school.

Wrong also when there are issues of abusing authority. I'd include university in this.

Gender shouldn't be an issue at all ,but often is.

Different story when it comes to adults taking night classes, or the like (although it might depend on what requirements a student might need to fulfill).

Festy

She should be stoned to death imo

Czarcasm

Taking these questions at face value:

mike_ie wrote: »

So my question is, is it considered less serious for a female teacher to have a relationship with a male student, than the other way around?

It is, and generally speaking the reasons for that include social attitudes that women are still the weaker/fairer sex.

Do we somehow see it as being less wrong? And all things being equal and all, is it?

Society in general sees it as being wrong, but not as wrong as the other way round, because of the reason given above.

All things can't possibly be equal because well, obviously men and women aren't treated equally all areas in society. Swings and roundabouts really- men are at an advantage in some ways, a disadvantage in other ways, and conversely- women are at an advantage in some ways, a disadvantage in others.

There will never be any such thing as true equality between the sexes, because nobody wants to give up their advantage in some areas, while fighting for equality in areas where they are at a disadvantage.

Tzardine

green_screen wrote: »

It's comments like these that add to the societal belief that women can't possibly be sex offenders.

Ah here. Think you need to buy one of these

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-w5QgzlMy_MY/TslBzt-k7cI/AAAAAAAAAiI/CjojGZ17nyQ/s1600/Sarcasm%20detector.jpg

Slicemeister

green_screen wrote: »

It's comments like these that add to the societal belief that women can't possibly be sex offenders.

That's ok where people can see those comments for what they are(sure that poster posted in jest), reality is there's people educating themselves on tripe like this from the internet the world over.

catallus

Sometimes the truth of the matter is so clear, and so obvious, that one simply cannot see the wood for the trees. The ability to recognise the truth is made more difficult because we have been indoctrinated for more than two generations to believe (no matter what the evidence is to the contrary) that men and women are totally the same in their hearts and minds.

The actual reality is that women must be deemed less responsible for their actions in the sexual realm; this has been known since the dawn of time: the myth of the apple being plucked from the forbidden tree of Truth and Knowledge by Eve was a warning that was interpreted throughout history as necessitating the separation of women from moral responsibility (the righteousness of this does not fit well with modern thinking) so when in today's world where equality is rightly being put forward as a good and modern thing, when a woman breaches a taboo it is seen less as a moral sin and is more readily recognised as a forgivable stumble by one who cannot control themselves. Now, a double standard that may be, but it is one which we all must live with because change takes time.

One of the best and most lauded films of all time, The Godfather, put it succinctly: "Women and children can be careless, a man must be responsible."

Femme_Fatale

^^^ Lol

OP, a search will bring up the opinions you seek many many many times.

freethearmy wrote: »

nothing wrong with a bit off ass banging a teacher 6-7 off us gave our french teacher a right doing in 99.........OHHHH WHAT A YEAR!!!!

Sure thang.

tylercheribini wrote: »

if she is 28 and still single chances are she is kicked ugly and so desperate for her hole she will get off with 15 year old students and risk losing her job. Ive read about about quite a few of these cases in America and the vast majority of the female teachers in question were horrendous looking.

That's... that's it yeh. The entire complex issue just boils down to looks.

Sigh...

Zebra3

mike_ie wrote: »

Found out last night through facebook that my ex-girlfriend's sister is back in the classroom again after taking a four year 'break' from the profession.

Why am I surprised about this? Because when i was living there (australia) in 2010, and still seeing my ex, her sister had her teaching license revoked for having inappropriate contact with a student who was also a minor. Long story short, she got too close to a male student, they got involved, until the student's father walked in on them one day at an inopportune moment.

What bothered me at the time was that other than the teachers union stripping her license, there were no charges of inappropriate contact of any kind, it was kept very hush hush by both the union and her family, in fact her family was genuinely surprised that their precious daughter was punished at all. After a couple of weeks of having to listen to how their poor daughter was being victimised by the system and treated unfairly, I pointed out that had it been me, a 28 year old guy with a 15 year old girl, not only would I be losing my teaching license, but I'd be a publicly outed as a registered sex offender and quite possibly be doing a few months jail time for my troubles. My life as I knew it would be over. This of course was met with derision.

Now it seems she is back teaching again, which can only mean that she's somehow regained her teaching license, which sounds ridiculous to me.

So my question is, is it considered less serious for a female teacher to have a relationship with a male student, than the other way around? Do we somehow see it as being less wrong? And all things being equal and all, is it?

Do you plan to contact the authorities in Australia or their media about this?

Ray Palmer

Anybody who thinks this is fine needs their head examined. There are plenty of stories of this happening to young teenage boys and it seriously messing up their lives.

The strange part of our law actually means if that 15 year old boy had sex with a 15 year old girl he could be prosecuted. Their is no age of consent for males in a heterosexual relationship.

WE also don't have a law about "positions of power" in the country. In the UK if you have sex with a consenting party and you are considered in a position of power/responsibility over the child you can be charged. So a teacher 22 and a pupil is 18 and you have sex you have broken the law and rightly so.

No matter how mature it is very easy for somebody of that age to be manipulated by somebody who is just 4 years older. Of course you could both just be attracted to each other but the rules apply to stop the predators. You can always wait.

Haven't you ever seen Home and Away? It takes less than a week to be allowed to teach in Australia.

Maximus Alexander

Speaking from my own perspective, at 15 I'd have punched my ma in the face to have a stab at a particular teacher of mine. I think it's really weird that she would want to be with a 15 year old, but I also think it is different than if it were the other way around. I don't think a 15 year old lad is likely to be damaged by having a fling with a hot teacher.

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Speaking from my own perspective, at 15 I'd have punched my ma in the face to have a stab at a particular teacher of mine. I think it's really weird that she would want to be with a 15 year old, but I also think it is different than if it were the other way around. I don't think a 15 year old lad is likely to be damaged by having a fling with a hot teacher.

Of course not, girls and women are delicate.

Agent Smith

Agent Smith wrote: »

It seems to be seen as less of an offence for some reason, Like the woman last week in England who was got a 1 year sentence for sleeping with a 10 year old boy.

what???????:eek:
excuse my ignorance but is this even possible?
10 year old?

Maximus Alexander

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course not, girls and women are delicate.

Wait, what?

Penny Tration

bubblypop wrote: »

what???????:eek:
excuse my ignorance but is this even possible?
10 year old?

He was eight when it started.

And yup, entirely possible if he had a precocious puberty.

Tokyo

Zebra3 wrote: »

Do you plan to contact the authorities in Australia or their media about this?

While I don't personally like it, I have no reason to think that it's not above board - I doubt she's sneaking back into the school system with no license.

Scotty P

bubblypop wrote: »

what???????:eek:
excuse my ignorance but is this even possible?
10 year old?

Yup.. and he wasn't ten (from the get-go at least): he was 8.

Ray Palmer

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I don't think a 15 year old lad is likely to be damaged by having a fling with a hot teacher.

Well I am going to assume you have no medical background nor have done any research. Be rest assured it does, primarily leading to a person very confused at the appropriate age of sexual contact. Some have gone on to do similar with young people themselves. It completely robs the child of a normal growing up experiences of dealing with a relationship.

Maximus Alexander

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Well I am going to assume you have no medical background nor have done any research.

Damn it! I keep forgetting that we're supposed to upload our degrees and employment history before we post in After Hours!

Guys, we can close the thread now, the doctor has spoken.

Legs.Eleven

I have to say and I'm open to be being banned or whatever but the amount of fcuking imbeciles (small minority) that post on Boards is doing my head in.

Legs.Eleven

tylercheribini wrote: »

if she is 28 and still single chances are she is kicked ugly and so desperate for her hole she will get off with 15 year old students and risk losing her job. Ive read about about quite a few of these cases in America and the vast majority of the female teachers in question were horrendous looking.

You're an idiot.

John Cherry

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I have to say and I'm open to be being banned or whatever but the amount of fcuking imbeciles (small minority) that post on Boards is doing my head in.

Well said.

Ray Palmer

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Damn it! I keep forgetting that we're supposed to upload our degrees and employment history before we post in After Hours!

Guys, we can close the thread now, the doctor has spoken.

No you just aren't expected to be an idiot who thinks their opinion trumps actual research. You can always educate yourself

orangesoda

I would gladly have intercourse with 20 of my old teachers, its a big fetish of mine

Scotty P

tylercheribini wrote: »

if she is 28 and still single chances are she is kicked ugly and so desperate for her hole she will get off with 15 year old students and risk losing her job. Ive read about about quite a few of these cases in America and the vast majority of the female teachers in question were horrendous looking.

Well then, how do you explain Hummer Mom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtSs39a3Rw

Maximus Alexander

Ray Palmer wrote: »

No you just aren't expected to be an idiot who thinks their opinion trumps actual research. You can always educate yourself

Ah would you stop. As I said:

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Speaking from my own perspective

Nowhere did I claim my opinions "trump actual research", but you're having a laugh if you think that I'm going to do hours of research before having a chat in After Hours.

If you disagree with my opinion, I'm happy to have a chat about that, but don't appeal to authority and put words in my mouth. Wind your neck in.

efb

Yes. Wrong professionally, ethically, socially and legally

Greenmachine

The most shocking thing about cases like this is how many of these cases are being reported about now. There seems to be something particularly subversive about it. I is beginning to look like a long held secret is unraveling. Are there in fact more female sexual offenders than men. Is there some kind of a taboo that the victim won't be believe. Do people not think it is credible that women do this sort of thing. Something similar happened with the churches cover ups.

Stroke Politics

This thread does not make any sense to me at all.

There is no such thing as a teaching licence in this country. There is a fairly ineffective Teaching Council, which all teachers must be registered with to get paid. That is the only power that they have, and you did not have to be a member of the T.C. until recent legislation enacted last year by Min. Quinn.

The union? They (the three teaching unions in Ireland that are recognised) don't issue licences either, and I doubt very much if they would take the side of a member involved in a serious breach of child protection.

As well as that, when a teacher moves to a new school they must apply for Garda vetting all over again. If they are working temporarily in a school on any casual basis, they must have a sworn affidavit signed by a solicitor that they have no convictions.

I smell bull. here....

Legs.Eleven

Stroke Politics wrote: »

This thread does not make any sense to me at all.

There is no such thing as a teaching licence in this country. There is a fairly ineffective Teaching Council, which all teachers must be registered with to get paid. That is the only power that they have, and you did not have to be a member of the T.C. until recent legislation enacted last year by Min. Quinn.

The union? They (the three teaching unions in Ireland that are recognised) don't issue licences either, and I doubt very much if they would take the side of a member involved in a serious breach of child protection.

As well as that, when a teacher moves to a new school they must apply for Garda vetting all over again. If they are working temporarily in a school on any casual basis, they must have a sworn affidavit signed by a solicitor that they have no convictions.

I smell bull. here....

It happened in Australia.

Czarcasm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The strange part of our law actually means if that 15 year old boy had sex with a 15 year old girl he could be prosecuted. Their is no age of consent for males in a heterosexual relationship.

WE also don't have a law about "positions of power" in the country. In the UK if you have sex with a consenting party and you are considered in a position of power/responsibility over the child you can be charged. So a teacher 22 and a pupil is 18 and you have sex you have broken the law and rightly so.

Ray I can't link directly to the legislation as I'm on mobile, but just to be clear on the above two points -

Defilement of a child aged under 17 years

Section 3 of the Criminal Law (Sex Offences) Act 2006 (pdf) as amended by Section 5 of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) (Amendment) Act 2007 (pdf) makes it a criminal offence to engage or attempt to engage in a sexual act with a child under 17 years. The maximum sentence is five years, ten years if the accused is a person in authority. A person in authority means:
A parent, step-parent, guardian, grandparent, uncle or aunt of the victim, or
any person acting in loco parentis (in place of parent or parents) to the victim, or
any person responsible for the education, supervision or welfare of the victim.

The maximum sentence is greater for a second or subsequent offence.

The accused may argue that he or she honestly believed that the child was aged 17 years or over. The court must then consider whether or not that belief was reasonable. It is not a defence to show that the child consented to the sexual act.

The consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions is required for any prosecution of a child under the age of 17 years for this offence. A person who is convicted of this offence and is not more than two years older than the victim is not subject to the requirements of the Sex Offenders Act 2001. This means they will not have their name placed on the Sex Offenders Register.

A girl aged under 17 years who has sexual intercourse may not be convicted of an offence on that ground alone.

Source: Citizen's Information Website

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Well I am going to assume you have no medical background nor have done any research. Be rest assured it does, primarily leading to a person very confused at the appropriate age of sexual contact. Some have gone on to do similar with young people themselves. It completely robs the child of a normal growing up experiences of dealing with a relationship.

Good post, but Christ I hate hearing that as a justification, not because it's untrue, but because I hear it used far too often as simply an excuse to gain sympathy for the perpetrator. It doesn't happen nearly as often as is made out. A good article I always link to is this one -


"Cycle of child sexual abuse: links between being a victim and becoming a perpetrator"; British Medical Journal


And then this one -


"Misperceptions about child sex offenders"; Australian Institute of Criminology

Scotty P

Greenmachine wrote: »

There seems to be something particularly subversive about it. I is beginning to look like a long held secret is unraveling. Are there in fact more female sexual offenders than men.

I would say there are more female teachers having sex with students than there are male teachers with female ones.

There are websites dedicated to naming female teachers it's that bad.

Here is a list that was made last year:

http://www.wnd.com/2013/12/39783/

Stroke Politics

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

It happened in Australia.

There are several Australian teacher regulatory authorities with similar functions to here, but the licence certainly does not come from a union. I'd be very surprised if this is true, unless perhaps the person re-registered with a new name and address....

Ray Palmer

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Nowhere did I claim my opinions "trump actual research", but you're having a laugh if you think that I'm going to do hours of research before having a chat in After Hours.

5 seconds of thought and 2 minutes research would show how idiotic your statement is. Your choice to be ignorant not mine, I am just calling you on it.