Are you a nationalist?

anncoates · 25-03-2014 09:05PM

markgisme wrote: »

A lot. Most middle class young people attend or will attend wealthy (Private) Second and Third level learning institutions and become subject to a lot of "West Brit" thinking and therefore learn and become "West Brits" themselves.

I know West Brit is a very rash term but it's exactly what most middle class people in and around Dublin are. They don't care about the greater Ireland once it doesn't affect them which is the same opinion a lot of people have these days.

I grew up experiencing this so I have some first hand experience of teachers directly influencing their students towards anti Republican and Nationalist sentiments.

"It doesn't matter to me so why should I care".

You couldn't be more wrong.

Nationalism is deleterious to class analysis as in your words, it's about a greater Ireland and not about the antagonistic social forces within that Ireland.

Fox_In_Socks · 25-03-2014 09:43PM

No, not that nationalistic. This is just another place on earth to be born. Better than many others in terms of food, health, clothing, work, freedom etc.

Foxhound38 · 26-03-2014 05:30PM

magma69 wrote: »

A monkey with a far better grasp of the English language than yourself it would seem.

Just because political ideals still have support doesn't mean they're not outdated.

Why should I care what flag is flying? How does that affect my life or society?

I care about actual issues, like poverty, crime, unemployment. Things that actually affect people's lives in a real way and not some romantic notion of freedom.

Spot on

To paraphrase Connolly: "Ireland without her people means nothing to me"

Lucena · 27-03-2014 11:27AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Spot on

To paraphrase Connolly: "Ireland without her people means nothing to me"

Sure he wasn't talking about Vienna? :P

on the river · 27-03-2014 11:38AM

magma69 wrote: »

A monkey with a far better grasp of the English language than yourself it would seem.

Just because political ideals still have support doesn't mean they're not outdated.

Why should I care what flag is flying? How does that affect my life or society?

I care about actual issues, like poverty, crime, unemployment. Things that actually affect people's lives in a real way and not some romantic notion of freedom.

Well you should care about your nation because it affects your life in everyway.

Your government , police , health service all contribute to your life in some form.

life is not clear cut as you make it out to be.

Nationalism is now a big talking point with the Russian and Ukraine crises.

Be respectful to your nation and be happy for your freedom.

Iwasfrozen · 27-03-2014 11:56AM

on the river wrote: »

Well you should care about your nation because it affects your life in everyway.

Your government , police , health service all contribute to your life in some form.

life is not clear cut as you make it out to be.

Nationalism is now a big talking point with the Russian and Ukraine crises.

Be respectful to your nation and be happy for your freedom.

One is not dependent on the other and Ukraine is proof if ever it was needed that nationalism is a dangerous and discriminatory ideology.

TheDoc · 27-03-2014 12:56PM

Probably not, I find too much stuff goes on in the name of "being Irish" that I find utterly embarrasing.

pojfexcsc · 27-03-2014 01:01PM

Ofcourse.

jimgoose · 27-03-2014 01:16PM

I happen to like having my own rock. That's not to say others aren't quite welcome to call over and even sit on my rock, but it is most certainly my rock. That's not to say either that other people's rocks aren't quite nice - I have the occasional sit on some of them myself - and they are quite welcome to them.

orangesoda · 27-03-2014 05:51PM

jimgoose wrote: »

I happen to like having my own rock. That's not to say others aren't quite welcome to call over and even sit on my rock, but it is most certainly my rock. That's not to say either that other people's rocks aren't quite nice - I have the occasional sit on some of them myself - and they are quite welcome to them.

Corkmen should not claim ones rock for himself, Cork do not own rock

jimgoose · 27-03-2014 05:55PM

orangesoda wrote: »

Corkmen should not claim ones rock for himself, Cork do not own rock

Sir, you have offended my honour and d'honour of Caaark, like. I challenge you to a tripe-and-drisheen atin' contest at dawn!

Spunge · 27-03-2014 06:43PM

markgisme wrote: »

A lot. Most middle class young people attend or will attend wealthy (Private) Second and Third level learning institutions and become subject to a lot of "West Brit" thinking and therefore learn and become "West Brits" themselves.

I know West Brit is a very rash term but it's exactly what most middle class people in and around Dublin are. They don't care about the greater Ireland once it doesn't affect them which is the same opinion a lot of people have these days.

I grew up experiencing this so I have some first hand experience of teachers directly influencing their students towards anti Republican and Nationalist sentiments.

"It doesn't matter to me so why should I care".

This is outrageous. You're claiming people being more enlightened than their peers is a fault and not a desireable trait. And the best education institutions in Ireland cost the same for everyone. I hope you're joking, could be coz im stoned.

pojfexcsc · 27-03-2014 09:27PM

Spunge wrote: »

This is outrageous. You're claiming people being more enlightened than their peers is a fault and not a desireable trait. And the best education institutions in Ireland cost the same for everyone. I hope you're joking, could be coz im stoned.

Are you saying getting taught anti-nationalism in school make's you more enlightened??

Iwasfrozen · 27-03-2014 09:47PM

pojfexcsc wrote: »

Are you saying getting taught anti-nationalism in school make's you more enlightened??

Not pushing nationalism on children makes them more enlightened.

Spunge · 27-03-2014 09:56PM

pojfexcsc wrote: »

Are you saying getting taught anti-nationalism in school make's you more enlightened??

Im saying its ridiculous to claim that people learn to think through education and develop educated beliefs is a bad thing, that post implies that basically. No strawman.

hjkl · 27-03-2014 10:02PM

I expected the poll to be a bit more even than 58/42 against nationalism.
No doubt the 'not nationalist' side will grow as the years go on and the world becomes more integrated.
There is already a generation of teenagers and young adults year who have grown up knowing only peace and cooperation between people in Ireland, and between Ireland and Britain. Add that to the rise of internationalism and the atmosphere for nationalism really isn't there anymore.

I voted Yes I am nationalist btw.

pojfexcsc · 27-03-2014 10:38PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Not pushing nationalism on children makes them more enlightened.

Your man said it was anti-nationalism being pushed on kids not neutral teaching so the same logic applies, they are not "more enlightened" whatever end of the scale they are taught.

Spunge wrote: »

Im saying its ridiculous to claim that people learn to think through education and develop educated beliefs is a bad thing, that post implies that basically. No strawman.

He never said that though did he? he's observed children getting educated with a west brit bias not attacking the fact they are apparently more educated than state educated students.

Whatever opinion they go on to have I couldnt care less.

I do remember when I was doing history for my leaving the book we used looked at the conflict in the north as fact and listed actions and atrocities on all sides without any leaning, I read the book my pals were using in their class and the partitionist slant on the book was unbelievable, using words like "so-called struggle" and "so-called demands".

I imagine if someone learnt the majority of their Irish history through that paticular book and never looked up things for themselves I wouldnt be surprised if they turned out anti-nationalist.

whats newxt · 27-03-2014 10:56PM

Roughly 50/50 it's a bit sad that in this day and age we still have people that call themselves nationalist

pojfexcsc · 27-03-2014 11:04PM

whats newxt wrote: »

Roughly 50/50 it's a bit sad that in this day and age we still have people that call themselves nationalist

Are you on the wind up? not as if its white nationalism or anything thick like that.

whats newxt · 27-03-2014 11:08PM

would you go out and get shot for your country if we were at war?

Iwasfrozen · 27-03-2014 11:15PM

whats newxt wrote: »

would you go out and get shot for your country if we were at war?

For my country? No screw Ireland.

For my family, my friends and my home? You bet I would.

pojfexcsc · 27-03-2014 11:16PM

whats newxt wrote: »

would you go out and get shot for your country if we were at war?

Would you ride a donkey to save your ma?

What is with the escalation

What is your perverse problem with Irish nationalism, your nonsense up there would probably have looked a little bit better if the question was "are you a republican"

whats newxt · 27-03-2014 11:24PM

pojfexcsc wrote: »

Would you ride a donkey to save your ma?

What is with the escalation

What is your perverse problem with Irish nationalism, your nonsense up there would probably have looked a little bit better if the question was "are you a republican"

I only asked a question what's wrong with that? you never answered any of them either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FMNFvKEy4c

Femme_Fatale · 27-03-2014 11:29PM

I'm not at all talking about mad rabid nationalism, but most people feel an affinity with kin and with the place they grew up in, so there's nothing wrong with feeling a bit of that towards the country you're from in certain contexts.

RobbingBandit · 27-03-2014 11:34PM

This country no longer has a national identity I would see myself happy to embrace, the idealism of a free united independent Ireland is so far out of reach anyone still clinging to it is delusional.

atilladehun · 27-03-2014 11:59PM

Great thread. It can really lead onto lots of discussions. I'm a history teacher and I'm goingto steal it for our class site.

Back on topic i voted no but now I want to say yes.
I'm a nationalist in the sense that I want a fully functional country. I want good schools, hospitals, transport and legal systems etc with fair taxation and top quality representation. I want people to be able come to Ireland and enjoy it. I want fulfilling lives for everyone here in work, culture and family.

I have no thoughts on ni, and no hate for anyone inside or outside of the country.

hjkl · 28-03-2014 12:06AM

atilladehun wrote: »

Great thread. It can really lead onto lots of discussions. I'm a history teacher and I'm goingto steal it for our class site.

Back on topic i voted no but now I want to say yes.
I'm a nationalist in the sense that I want a fully functional country. I want good schools, hospitals, transport and legal systems etc with fair taxation and top quality representation. I want people to be able come to Ireland and enjoy it. I want fulfilling lives for everyone here in work, culture and family.

I have no thoughts on ni, and no hate for anyone inside or outside of the country.

How is that nationalism?

Mountainlad · 28-03-2014 12:17AM

I am very proud of where I'm from both in a sense of County and Country. I think it's important we can identify with where we are from through out our lives.

In terms of being a nationalist, it depends on what meaning you derive for the term. If it's a matter of loving the Country than chalk me down as a Nationalist. I don't believe in exclusion though, although that said I'd like us to keep our identity.

The preservation of language, music and heritage are very important to me and I feel like society in general is making a constant effort to leave them all behind. Think it's important to remember what our ancestors dreamt of and what we are lucky to have today, to celebrate it appropriately and be thankful for it.

One more point is that I think being Irish should be open to anyone born on the Island, no matter their religion or County of birth (in fact it is open to everyone given those in the North are entitled to a passport) and that nobody should be allowed take it away from someone born on the Island. The only true way to have a united Ireland is one united in spirit and identity, no matter what differences there maybe with political and economic governance.

Spunge · 28-03-2014 04:04AM

pojfexcsc wrote: »

Your man said it was anti-nationalism being pushed on kids not neutral teaching so the same logic applies, they are not "more enlightened" whatever end of the scale they are taught.

He never said that though did he? he's observed children getting educated with a west brit bias not attacking the fact they are apparently more educated than state educated students.

Whatever opinion they go on to have I couldnt care less.

I do remember when I was doing history for my leaving the book we used looked at the conflict in the north as fact and listed actions and atrocities on all sides without any leaning, I read the book my pals were using in their class and the partitionist slant on the book was unbelievable, using words like "so-called struggle" and "so-called demands".

I imagine if someone learnt the majority of their Irish history through that paticular book and never looked up things for themselves I wouldnt be surprised if they turned out anti-nationalist.

I was referring to anti-nationalism as a concept, not anti-irish. There was some confusion i hope........

Green Giant · 28-03-2014 12:15PM

I love my country and I'm proud to be Irish. On an international Internet forum I make no secret of my nationality and, when I travel abroad, I always take an Ireland jersey and my county colours - although this is usually more effective in connecting with other Irish people at said location than anything else.

However, I'm not one for automatically rejecting anything non-Irish. For example, I'd listen to international pop and indie music more than rebel music or trad. I'd watch Sky and BBC far more often than RTE, TV3 or TG4. I take more of an interest in the English Premier League and European soccer than club or county GAA.

In a nutshell, proud to be Irish but not a total nationalist by any stretch.

Are you a nationalist?

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