Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

csallmighty · 18-03-2014 11:01PM

Mr Williams wrote: »

You can reform a murderer you cant reform a sex beast.

Sorry to hijack your discussion but that is an absurd statement.

Can you reform this guy?

Mr Williams · 18-03-2014 11:04PM

csallmighty wrote: »

Sorry to hijack your discussion but that is an absurd statement.

Can you reform this guy?

He would be another good candidate for the death penalty. I suppose some people must think there is a chance he may be innocent ?

end of the road · 18-03-2014 11:04PM

Mr Williams wrote: »

More than Lonergan I'd say

oh dear god, how would a journalist who never had any experience of the prison system know more about that system and how it works then someone who actually ran a prison?

Mr Williams wrote: »

mountjoy was and is a wash with drugs.

so are many prisons, even prisons in america can't keep them out fully.

Mr Williams wrote: »

The jail Gilligan was in isnt far off a holiday camp.

were you in it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-03-2014 11:04PM

Mr Williams wrote: »

You can reform a murderer you cant reform a sex beast. The miscarraige of justice is a straw man argument. Do you think Larry Murphy is innocent ?

Are you saying the video is fake ?

Larry Murphy should be behind bars for the rest of his life, no argument there.

We've been down the "can't be reformed" road, as well you know. Proven conclusion was that you were spouting bull**** as you have no idea whether they can be reformed or not. You tried to strawman me by claiming I said they could be reformed (which I hadn;t) and finally admitte that you had no idea whather they could be reformed or not, so why are you still harping on about it now?

Beyond that, the only reason that the miscarraige of justice could be a "strawman" was if you were saying that miscarraiges and innocent people beign killed is irrelvant to the argument. Is that what you;re saying?

Regards the video, I'm saying that I don't beleive it to be in context or representative of life in prison.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-03-2014 11:06PM

Mr Williams wrote: »

He would be another good candidate for the death penalty. I suppose some people must think there is a chance he may be innocent ?

Now THAT'S a strawman, right there.

Mr Williams · 19-03-2014 09:51PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Larry Murphy should be behind bars for the rest of his life, no argument there.

So why not put him down? that would stop him ever being a danger to the community.

We've been down the "can't be reformed" road, as well you know. Proven conclusion was that you were spouting bull**** as you have no idea whether they can be reformed or not.

There is no way a sex beast that rapes childern can ever be reformed you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out.

Beyond that, the only reason that the miscarraige of justice could be a "strawman" was if you were saying that miscarraiges and innocent people beign killed is irrelvant to the argument. Is that what you;re saying?

Cars also kill innocent people should we ban those aswell ?

With modern dna evidence the chances of a sex beast been wrongfully convicted is about zero. If you want to save innocent lives then we need to keep these beasts out of the community.

Regards the video, I'm saying that I don't beleive it to be in context or representative of life in prison.

The video shows that prison is basically a holiday camp.

Mr Williams · 19-03-2014 09:54PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Now THAT'S a strawman, right there.

So if we know hes 100% guilty then there is no reason not to put him down.

In norway they can only keep him locked up for 17 years.

Mr Williams · 19-03-2014 10:05PM

end of the road wrote: »

oh dear god, how would a journalist who never had any experience of the prison system know more about that system and how it works then someone who actually ran a prison?

so are many prisons, even prisons in america can't keep them out fully.

were you in it?

Lonergan coundn't run a creche never mind a prison. Mountjoy was a lawless place when he ran it he let the prisoners do whatever they wanted.

The inmates see him as clown he is able to freely socialise with former inmates.

In any other country a prison governor would not be able to meet former inmates without security around them.

end of the road · 19-03-2014 10:18PM

Mr Williams wrote: »

So if we know hes 100% guilty then there is no reason not to put him down.

their is, its wrong to take a life, to preach about the wrongs of a certain and then for the state to commit the ultimate crime is hypocritical and makes no sense.

end of the road · 19-03-2014 10:22PM

Mr Williams wrote: »

So why not put him down? that would stop him ever being a danger to the community.

see my previous post

Mr Williams wrote: »

modern dna evidence

isn't fool proof and isn't perfect, anyone who thinks otherwise is delusianel, it can easily be tampered with also.

Mr Williams wrote: »

With modern dna evidence the chances of a sex beast been wrongfully convicted is about zero.

wrong, its not perfect

Mr Williams wrote: »

If you want to save innocent lives then we need to keep these beasts out of the community.

agree, so full life sentences are the answer, the death penalty has failed as proven world wide.

end of the road · 19-03-2014 10:26PM

Mr Williams wrote: »

Lonergan coundn't run a creche never mind a prison.

oh? he still ran a prison, you haven't and never will, and the journalist you quoted never has and never will run a prison.

Mr Williams wrote: »

Mountjoy was a lawless place when he ran it he let the prisoners do whatever they wanted.

wrong

Mr Williams wrote: »

The inmates see him as clown he is able to freely socialise with former inmates.

wrong on part 1, and good on part 2, to think that former inmates and inmates have respect for a prison governor is a good thing

Mr Williams wrote: »

In any other country a prison governor would not be able to meet former inmates without security around them.

which is very unfortunate if true which i suspect maybe the case only with some.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-03-2014 11:39PM

Mr Williams wrote: »

So if we know hes 100% guilty then there is no reason not to put him down.

In norway they can only keep him locked up for 17 years.

Your point was that some people might htink he's innocent. Unless someone said that, it's still a strawman argument.

The problem is you're not going to get someone to agree or disagree with the deth penalty on one case. It's a principle, an economic matter, a moral issue, whatever you want - but it's not a single case. Give me an argument as to WHY - not WHO. Then we'll discuss who.

Mr Williams wrote: »

So why not put him down? that would stop him ever being a danger to the community.

This depends: what do you want. Do you want him to suffer? They you want recividism? Do you want economics to play a part?

There is no way a sex beast that rapes childern can ever be reformed you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out.

Again, we've discussed this. You don't have a clue whether it is or not.

Cars also kill innocent people should we ban those aswell ?

Never seen a car kill someone. Seen it used to kill someone, but not kill someone.

With modern dna evidence the chances of a sex beast been wrongfully convicted is about zero. If you want to save innocent lives then we need to keep these beasts out of the community.

You have NO interest in protecting innocent people, as has been proven. You just want blood and you dont care how.

The video shows that prison is basically a holiday camp.

I'm assuming you;ve never been in either a prison or a holiday camp, and I'll assume you're not stupid to beleive that prison is one big party 24/7. Would those be safe assumptions?

In any case, it's off topic: even if you were right (and you could be for all I know - but based on experiences of people who have been in prison you aren't) I'd simply argue that prison life should be made tougher, end of argument. The point does nothing to promote the death penalty.

Billy86 · 20-03-2014 12:05AM

Mr Williams wrote: »

There is no way a sex beast that rapes childern can ever be reformed you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out.

Nope.

With modern dna evidence the chances of a sex beast been wrongfully convicted is about zero. If you want to save innocent lives then we need to keep these beasts out of the community.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.

The Antigay · 20-03-2014 12:06AM

What if they want to be executed?

J_E · 20-03-2014 02:59AM

Mr Williams wrote: »

sex beast

ugh, can't you stop with the tabloid word vomit and at least use real life terms?

Mal-Adjusted · 20-03-2014 03:37AM

The Antigay wrote: »

What if they want to be executed?

What if they do? Assisted suicide is illegal in this country. There was a big hoo-ha about it recently.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-03-2014 10:20AM

Cydoniac wrote: »

ugh, can't you stop with the tabloid word vomit and at least use real life terms?

I know - I can't stop misreading it as this....

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

What if they do? Assisted suicide is illegal in this country. There was a big hoo-ha about it recently.

Interestign point: if you want to die, commit murder, get the death penalty, is it then illegal?

OldNotWIse · 20-03-2014 10:24AM

J_E · 20-03-2014 12:39PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Replace the clothes with tracksuits, the smooth American voices with something a little less polished, and you might have your average modern mob there.

on the river · 20-03-2014 02:58PM

Fallability.

If their is strong DNA evidence and withness statements and a history of the

defendant past crimes the dath penalty is the best solution.

Cost (both of appeals and leaving the EU).

less cost. you are saving the tax payer money by not paying for food and
accomodation in prison. Appeals will be pointless because the individual will be dead.

Pointlessness

I think it would be better to see extreme criminals dead then
roaming the streets after only a decade or less in prison.

Their is a greater chance for these sort of criminals to reoffend which
would cost the state more in putting the criminal back in prison.

the death penalty would actually save money and more impotantly

peoples lives fron these dangerous criminals.

Amirani · 20-03-2014 03:03PM

on the river wrote: »

If their is strong DNA evidence and withness statements and a history of the

defendant past crimes the dath penalty is the best solution.

less cost. you are saving the tax payer money by not paying for food and
accomodation in prison. Appeals will be pointless because the individual will be dead.

I think it would be better to see extreme criminals dead then
roaming the streets after only a decade or less in prison.

Their is a greater chance for these sort of criminals to reoffend which
would cost the state more in putting the criminal back in prison.

the death penalty would actually save money and more impotantly

peoples lives fron these dangerous criminals.

Why doesn't it work in the US so? Why are murder rates generally higher in states that have the death penalty? Why are more and more states removing the death penalty from their statutes?

It's all well and good arguing about ideologies and the morality of it all, but the fact of the matter is that the death penalty doesn't work, has never worked and will never work. There's countless examples of countries using the death penalty past and present, please identify a single one that has been successful in reducing crime.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-03-2014 03:07PM

on the river wrote: »

less cost. you are saving the tax payer money by not paying for food and
accomodation in prison. Appeals will be pointless because the individual will be dead.

Em... you do realise that you have to feed them while their appeals are in process, right?

As for the rest of your argument, you clearly have no idea that the variable costs are of keeping extra prisoners; you clearly have no idea how much it costs appeal a death sentence; so how in the hell can you claim that one costs less than the other...?!

And the point about prison being harder/easier is not relevant to the death penalty as most people would have no problem with a harder prions regime.

Research, please, then come back to us.

loveisdivine · 20-03-2014 03:09PM

on the river wrote: »

If their is strong DNA evidence and withness statements and a history of the

defendant past crimes .

What if this is the first offence?

No Pants · 20-03-2014 03:11PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

ugh, can't you stop with the tabloid word vomit and at least use real life terms?

Wasn't this a song from Tom Jones?

on the river · 20-03-2014 03:14PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

What if this is the first offence?

a good slap on the arse and 20 years in prison.

I only arguing for the death penalty where a individual has commited

violent acts of rape and muder numerous times.

these people should be served the death penalty to protect the public.

Holsten · 20-03-2014 03:19PM

on the river wrote: »

a good slap on the arse and 20 years in prison.

I only arguing for the death penalty where a individual has commited

violent acts of rape and muder numerous times.

these people should be served the death penalty to protect the public.

But if this was the case they would be in prison for the remainder of their lives.

The public is protected if they are still allowed to live.

on the river · 20-03-2014 03:22PM

Holsten wrote: »

But if this was the case they would be in prison for the remainder of their lives.

The public is protected if they are still allowed to live.

what about the other prisoners.

Most are these criminals do get out on bail or serving short sentences.

Dublin Red Devil · 20-03-2014 03:23PM

No I disagree with the death penalty. It's not for Ireland

Holsten · 20-03-2014 03:26PM

on the river wrote: »

what about the other prisoners.

Most are these criminals do get out on bail or serving short sentences.

Give me an example of a serial murderer or rapist who is serving a short sentence?

I agree that all prisoners within the system should be able to serve their time without threats of violence.

end of the road · 20-03-2014 03:28PM

on the river wrote: »

If their is strong DNA evidence and withness statements and a history of the

defendant past crimes the dath penalty is the best solution.

less cost. you are saving the tax payer money by not paying for food and
accomodation in prison. Appeals will be pointless because the individual will be dead.

I think it would be better to see extreme criminals dead then
roaming the streets after only a decade or less in prison.

Their is a greater chance for these sort of criminals to reoffend which
would cost the state more in putting the criminal back in prison.

the death penalty would actually save money and more impotantly

peoples lives fron these dangerous criminals.

all has been proven not to be the case, the death penalty costs more, end of, your post has been debunked countless times

Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

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