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Atheists can be assholes too sometimes

1235

Comments

  • #122
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    So you're not disputing that the US military doesn't provide Christian crosses as headstones in graveyards in the US. Yet you expect apologies for something that you don't agree with?

    Unless you're standing 2 feet from a headstone, you'd have no idea of the religious affiliation of any soldier. They all look the same rather than highlighting which are Christian by use of Christian crosses as a graveyard marker.
    You wouldn't need to be 2 feet away to see this cross in Arlington ...

    http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/visitorinformation/MonumentMemorials/CanadianCross.aspx

    ... and apolgy is certainly now due to Ardmacha.


  • #123
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,035 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    You wouldn't need to be 2 feet away to see this cross in Arlington ...

    5199748871

    https://www.google.ie/search?q=photo+of+cross+of+scrifice+in+arlington&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gws_rd=cr&ei=j68oU7fDFZDxhQewuYCICw

    ... and apolgy is certainly now due to Ardmacha.

    a gift from the Canadian government.
    This large granite cross was donated by the Canadian government in 1927 to honor all those Americans who fought with Canada in the early part of World War I prior to U.S. entry into the war.

    So the American government didn't build the cross. It was a gift of goodwill from the Canadian government.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #124
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    a gift from the Canadian government.



    So the American government didn't build the cross. It was a gift of goodwill from the Canadian government.
    ... and the cross erected by that poor lady to her son (that the Secularists want to take down) was also a gift from her.

    Guys I'd suggest that ye would stop while ye are behind ... and before ye go further behind.


  • #125
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,035 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... and the cross erected by that poor lady to her son (that the Secularists want to take down) was also a gift from her.

    Guys I'd suggest that ye would stop while ye are behind ... and before ye go further behind.

    There's a difference between a foreign government and a private citizen. Also between a graveyard and the side of the road.

    If the womans son had been interned at Arlington, she wouldn't be allowed put a Christian cross as the tombstone. Yet the gift from Canada was allowed. Clearly there's a difference that you don't understand.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #126
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    There's a difference between a foreign government and a private citizen. Also between a graveyard and the side of the road.

    If the womans son had been interned at Arlington, she wouldn't be allowed put a Christian cross as the tombstone. Yet the gift from Canada was allowed. Clearly there's a difference that you don't understand.
    It's all about respect ... for grieving people (of all faiths and none) ... and their dead.


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  • #127
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,035 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    It's all about respect ... for grieving people (of all faiths and none) ... and their dead.

    and what's disrespectful with how Arlington currently runs with regards to headstones? :confused:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #128
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    and what's disrespectful with how Arlington currently runs with regards to headstones? :confused:
    Nothing at all ... its the Secularists who want to tear down crosses in the name of banning religious symbols from public property that I disagree with.


  • #129
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,035 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    Nothing at all ... its the Secularists who want to tear down crosses in the name of banning religious symbols from public property that I disagree with.

    so you think that religious people should be exempt from local law regarding construction of religious items on state property?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #130
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    That doesn't imply that that god is the Christian God!!!

    And "In god we trust" is a ****ty motto (thankyou Ike, one of the many ****ty things you did as president). E Pluribvs, Unvm (supposedly gotten from Virgil's poem in praise, and recipe for, Caesar salad. How hardcore is that?)is far superior


  • #131
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Trying to ban crosses from graveyards now lads?! For shame!


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  • #132
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,035 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    catallus wrote: »
    Trying to ban crosses from graveyards now lads?! For shame!

    It's a cross on a public road:confused:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #133
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Didn't the Romans have crosses on the roads that they built? Granted they put them to civic use in pursuit of Justice and the common good. Who are we to argue with the Romans (either the ancient or the modern)?


  • #134
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    And "In god we trust" is a ****ty motto (thankyou Ike, one of the many ****ty things you did as president). E Pluribvs, Unvm (supposedly gotten from Virgil's poem in praise, and recipe for, Caesar salad. How hardcore is that?)is far superior
    I'd prefer if it was in Jesus they were trusting ... but there you go.


  • #135
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,247 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    The Romans fed the Christians to the lions.

    Who are we to argue with the Romans?


  • #136
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    J C wrote: »
    I'd prefer if it was in Jesus they were trusting ... but there you go.

    Weren't most of the guys who framed the U.S. Constitution a bunch of bible-thumpers?


  • #137
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    The Romans fed the Christians to the lions.

    Who are we to argue with the Romans?

    I'm sure the Christians will get their turn to be persecuted again, but I'm told there's a bit of a queue!


  • #138
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    J C wrote: »
    I'd prefer if it was in Jesus they were trusting ... but there you go.

    Jesus isn't God?


  • #139
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Jesus isn't God?

    Ah here, here, Heresy!

    Of course he is!


  • #140
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,151 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    catallus wrote: »
    Weren't most of the guys who framed the U.S. Constitution a bunch of bible-thumpers?

    Nope, otherwise I have a feeling that the US Constitution would have designated a state religion. Thomas Jefferson, who is seen by many as one of the main authors of the original Constitution, was what we'd call a deist nowadays.


  • #141
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    The Romans fed the Christians to the lions.

    Who are we to argue with the Romans?
    They also tortured and crucified Jesus Christ ... so I don't think we should look to Rome as a model of tolerance or anything else.


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  • #142
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    catallus wrote: »
    Weren't most of the guys who framed the U.S. Constitution a bunch of bible-thumpers?
    They were mostly Deist Masons.


  • #143
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Jesus isn't God?
    Who told you that?


  • #144
    Absolam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    J C wrote: »
    They were mostly Deist Masons.

    Ah... Maybe a third or so were Masons, and most of those would have identified themselves as good Christians rather than Deists I think...


  • #145
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    J C wrote: »
    Who told you that?

    You seemed to be drawing a distinction between "in God we trust" and "in Jesus we trust", so it seemed that you did.

    On further reflection, I guess you were just making the point that "in God we trust" is too inclusive of non-Christian religious believers who could recognise their own deities in the existing motto, so it denies Christians the smug certainty that it applies only to them.

    So yeah, "e pluribus unum" was a vastly better motto on pretty much every level.


  • #146
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Its quite possible for a christian to be in favour of a secular state. Nearly all the American colonists were christian back then, but they were also keen on setting up a state with strong secular republican ideals, along similar lines to the French.
    In Turkey most people are muslims, but there is a strong secular tradition in matters of state, going back to their own "founding father" Ataturk.


  • #147
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    recedite wrote: »
    Its quite possible for a christian to be in favour of a secular state. Nearly all the American colonists were christian back then, but they were also keen on setting up a state with strong secular republican ideals, along similar lines to the French.
    In Turkey most people are muslims, but there is a strong secular tradition in matters of state, going back to their own "founding father" Ataturk.

    Looking at a discussion on the other forum would suggest that more than a few forward thinking Irish Christians are of a similar mind.


  • #148
    CiDeRmAn
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,754 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    J C wrote: »
    They also tortured and crucified Jesus Christ ... so I don't think we should look to Rome as a model of tolerance or anything else.

    Hold on now, I think the ground swell of public support from the decidedly non roman local government in the form of Jewish authority had a hand in nailing the man to a tree for saying how great it would be for people to be nice to each other for a change.
    In fact didn't the Romans offer a get out for the rabble but they still chose to execute the man instead?
    I'm sure the Romans shook their head in surprise at this form of parish pump politics.

    Secularism has nothing to do with atheism, rather it is anxious to hand the reins of responsibility of a nations faith/s to the people and their church.
    The state business is run but run, ultimately, by officials who are voted into the role by the population, so they will share values and, hence these values will be reflected in the policies and moral position taken by the government.
    So, you get a representitive government that is only held accountable by its people, not by directly by any given church or faith, making it far more flexible in dealing with issues that affect that population, and not having to adhere to any doctrine for direction, though they will still be at the mercy of the voting public come election time.
    That said it's apparent, in the likes of Turkey say, that while you can be a good Muslim you can also be in favour of a secular society and vote for secular parties whilst still seeing your countries identity as steeped in history and as a progressive Muslim state needing no protection, instead being enhanced, here we are, a free, open and Muslim society, inclusive and the West need not fear us.


  • #149
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    catallus wrote: »
    Weren't most of the guys who framed the U.S. Constitution a bunch of bible-thumpers?

    No they were mostly either deist or secret agnostics. Hence why the wall of separation between church and state was made a cornerstone of US jurisprudence. They were mostly sick of being persecuted for their beliefs or lack thereof by the British authorities.


  • #150
    gaynorvader
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭gaynorvader


    J C wrote: »
    {...}

    ... and apolgy is certainly now due to Ardmacha.


    I don't see why, they were wrong and it was pointed out. End of story.


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  • #151
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    Hold on now, I think the ground swell of public support from the decidedly non roman local government in the form of Jewish authority had a hand in nailing the man to a tree for saying how great it would be for people to be nice to each other for a change.

    If Jesus existed, and that's a big if, because we've exactly the same evidence for Biggus Dickus as we do for Jesus, he would not have been crucified for the "crimes" attributed to him in the bible. His "crimes" were committed under Judaic law and thus were punished under Judaic law, which perscribed either hanging or stoning to death. And further to that, even if he were to be punished under Roman law, for a crime not specified in the bible, then he would only have been crucified for committing a treason against the Roman state. Think the Spartacite rebellion to see what was considered treason, a man preaching changes to the religion of a subject people doesn't even come close.

    It wouldn't suprise me if the crucifiction story was retroed into the bible as a way to associate Jesus subliminally with Spartacus, in order to have some of the latter's reputation for justice and fairness rub off on Jesus.


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