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Season 4 Episode 14 - "The Grove" [AMC] [SPOILERS]

24

Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Melissa McBride deserves a lot of credit (Chad Coleman too I guess) because she basically carried that episode. This was Carol's story really: I always figured the two girls had become her surrogate daughters and you could see how a lot of the guilt and grief over losing Sophie had evolved into protecting Lizzie and Mika, she seemed utterly determined that they would learn & survive. To then find herself losing another set of children, this time in even more gut-wrenching circumstances, that required the actor to really sell the emotion of it all & McBride definitely delivered.

    The pace of the first half didn't annoy me as much as others, because you could see they were building to something with Lizzie; they had kept her obvious psychosis in the background for much of her last few appearances (bar the horrible Judith suffocation scene) & given how it suddenly became the focus of this episode I suspected things were afoot.

    I wasn't wrong. God-damn that was all very grim, arguably the darkest the show has been since day 1. It's all very well playing with the notions of how civilised adults might abandon their humanity in the face of oblivion, but it's quite another thing to show how a child's mind could become so warped when surrounded by these new concepts of normality. More than most episodes you'd legitimately ask the question of why it's worth carrying on when even the innocent have become corrupted. I suspect Carol, when she confessed to Tyresse about murdering the infected back in the prison, was hoping he'd pull the trigger; that Tyresse chose to forgive her was a small chink of light in an otherwise pitch-black story.

    My only quibble was they really, really oversold the relative innocence of Mika; the hunting scene was particularly poor & just felt like an overly blunt, unsubtle way of underlining the horror of Lizzie's eventual actions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,404 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    Fans of the comic have been waiting for this scene for awhile, they changed it around a little bit but was still very well done.

    Next episode should be awsome with David S Goyer directing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Fans of the comic have been waiting for this scene for awhile, they changed it around a little bit but was still very well done.

    I'm a fan of the comics and was still surprised when it happened. The girl actor was very good and made it even harder. I hate any story where kids look as if they might or do get hurt.

    Yip, at that stage eating a bullet would start to look attractive.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭kaisersuzy


    What's this the little house on the prairie? get them kids killed quick ....doing my head in :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,735 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    i was hoping she was going to shoot herself


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 810 ✭✭✭fiacha


    Another boring episode that could have been edited down to 20 minutes. The death of the two girls was predictable, but I had incorrectly assumed that Lizzie was going to get her sister killed by a walker.

    Nothing shocking in it at all (i think the Internet may have broken me :D)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭DoozerT6


    Wow. That really was execution-style, wasn't it. The wide camera shot of the two of them, just before Carol pulled the trigger....chills. Doubly chilling as it was a (clearly disturbed) child. However as they mentioned earlier in the episode, there was no medication or mental help available to her, and she was clearly (!!) a danger to others.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,520 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    Look at the flowers, just look at the flowers....

    I was expecting it from the comics but never thought they would do it. Great episode, much much better then darryl and your wan looking to get wrecked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Liamalone


    Enjoyrf that episode which makes a nice change, changed the story rightly from the comics but did it fairly well, didn't even mind the slow first half.

    A solid 4/10 :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭mrkiscool2


    They have done a lot of the stuff from the comics that people wouldn't have expected (the beheading, this). I think this is actually one of the rare things that was done better than the comics. In the comics
    Carl kills the brother who killed his brother, just like Lizzie killed Mika
    so the way the killed Lizzie was a lot more disturbing but yet made perfect sense. I actually found the pacing really good in this episode, they built to that moment quite well! Also, the start and end of the episode (Fallout reference at the start) were also both suitably chilling for a very dark and grim episode.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,201 ✭✭✭Jofspring


    The first half bored me to death. People are saying you could see it leading somewhere but with the Walking Dead that isn't always the case. There have been so many slow episodes that have lead nowhere that it could have easily just been another one of them up to the half way point. Glad they tied it up in this episode cause was dreading them dragging out Lizzie going cuckoo into another episode. The same with the Tyreese/Carol situation. They just about saved the episode from half way onwards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭pookiesboo


    Don't read the comics but was this really compared to the red wedding? !Not bad but hardly deserving of the glowing endorsement that some have given it.
    I think it would have been more shocking if the two girls were prominent characters and in more episodes than they were rather than a couple of lines here and there.

    How come they were putting the pecans (or peecawns as they were pronouncing them ) into an electric oven? How does Carol keep her hair so short still?
    im guessing the smoke was coming from the gaff Darryl and whatshername burnt down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    pookiesboo wrote: »
    Don't read the comics but was this really compared to the red wedding? !Not bad but hardly deserving of the glowing endorsement that some have given it.
    I think it would have been more shocking if the two girls were prominent characters and in more episodes than they were rather than a couple of lines here and there.

    How come they were putting the pecans (or peecawns as they were pronouncing them ) into an electric oven? How does Carol keep her hair so short still?
    im guessing the smoke was coming from the gaff Darryl and whatshername burnt down.

    What makes you think it was an electric oven? Could have run on cylinder gas? Good catch on the fire being from Darryl. Completely forgot about that.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭kaisersuzy


    fiacha wrote: »
    Another boring episode that could have been edited down to 20 minutes. The death of the two girls was predictable, but I had incorrectly assumed that Lizzie was going to get her sister killed by a walker.

    Nothing shocking in it at all (i think the Internet may have broken me :D)

    I was shocked at how bad the acting was to be fair


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Lone Stone


    The girls flip out scene when carol stabed her walker was awkwardly bad and i thought tyrese was experiancing an earth
    Quake at the table when carol spilled the beans. Ha. Enjoyed it more than the last two episodes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    Cracking stuff. Best episode this half-series.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭bur


    Carol for leader.

    Overall it was another poor episode, actually had to fast forward a lot of it, the pacing is so slow and none of these characters are very interesting or well written to be able to prop up the structure of these episodes on their own.

    It's funny though, all through that episode i was shouting for someone to shoot that simpleton child in the head.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,735 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    in zombie apocolypse why would you leave two kids and a baby alone


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    in zombie apocolypse why would you leave two kids and a baby alone

    Plot_Device_.PNG


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Dandelion6


    pookiesboo wrote: »
    How does Carol keep her hair so short still?

    Ha! I was wondering that too.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,748 ✭✭✭✭Lovely Bloke


    That was so grim, I actually jumped up and went "Holy Shiiittt".

    Fair play to Carol, she came out of that looking a proper bad ass, she is the best adjusted person in the group, and she was right to kill Tyreese's friends in the Prison.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭StaticAge11


    Excellent episode I thought. Gave it an 8. The slow build worked really well with the ultimate pay off. Even though I knew what was coming I felt the episode was well paced and imposed a real sense of menace and general unease in the episode.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Best episode in 2 seasons in my opinion. Never seen that coming.
    I thought Carol would kill Tyreese
    after seeing the promo last week. How wrong I was.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Dandelion6 wrote: »
    Ha! I was wondering that too.

    The series is slow enough at times, never mind showing Carol hacking at her hair with a knife or brushing her teeth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    Great episode. Mika dying was really upsetting as she was a little sweetie, and was fast becoming the most sensible person in the small group, who had managed to keep her sense of fun and playfulness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭ardinn


    kaisersuzy wrote: »
    I was shocked at how bad the acting was to be fair

    ??? Really? Thought lizzie played her part perfectly, actually would go as far to say that was first class acting from a girl so young. Superb stuff!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    ardinn wrote: »
    ??? Really? Thought lizzie played her part perfectly, actually would go as far to say that was first class acting from a girl so young. Superb stuff!

    Lizzie was mostly a good actress tbf, mika or what ever ye call her was not :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Timmyctc wrote: »
    Lizzie was mostly a good actress tbf, mika or what ever ye call her was not :P

    I would have actually said that was the other way round and that generally speaking Mika was a much more believable character all along while I found Lizzie to be a bit stilted by times. However I think she played a blinder for that particular episode (they both did).


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Criticising child actors feels a bit redundant though, particularly younger ones who have yet to even hit their teens; often they simply don't have the emotional range to project in the way you'd expect an adult - or even teenage - actor. I think we should cut them some slack, they did ok considering what was asked of them.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭ardinn


    I dont think you get the difficulty level of what she did in that episode, to try and emulate a psychologically disturbed, fragile emotional wreck of a person and pull it off so well while putting her own personal spin on her characters mental state is something most actors find difficult, even impossible.

    Heath ledger in the dark knight is the last time I think I saw someone do it so well.


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