Can We Not Build Infrastructure Rather than Houses?

carlmango11 wrote: »

Or to build a transport network where switching between modes is quick and painless. Something Dublin, with it's cocktail of different operators and tickets hasn't quite figured out yet.

So hang on People are fine to drive/bus to a metro station from their house. Take this to the nearest station to were they work. Then walk or get a bus to work.

But they are not happy to drive to the nearest train/luas. Get that to the nearest station to were they work. Then walk or bus to work ?

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

It also has 50 miles of light rail and 91 train stations.


What's your point?

That it does not have a Metro system was that not obvious

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

And? What does that have to do with Dubin?


Forget Metro, it's DART Underground that's more important. MN is still important.



You seem to be under the impression that the whole of Dublin all live in one house, work in one building and that all train, Luas, bus and Metro lines would line parallel to each other.

Can you try and make sense a little bit? That would be great.

Hmmm thought I was in saying why not commute to the services we already have rather than building a massive underground metro system. The services we have can be improved and upgraded.

carlmango11 wrote: »

That post confuses me. I don't remember saying that people are happy getting a bus, then a train, then a bus? I also don't remember saying that they are not happy to drive to the nearest train or luas?

Most people don't like buses. They're uncomfortable, get stuck in traffic, are slow, stuffy, the list goes on.

People like trams and trains. Luas and DART have proved this. Trams and trains are the only form of transport which would entice people to leave the comfort of private cars. (Or saving money, however with the price of Dublin transport, that's not applicable)

North Dublin and the Airport need a solution to deal with current transport issues. Local bus services aren't cutting it. It takes the guts of 90 minutes to get from Swords to town. It's not even a long journey. The journey is unreliable and often buses become full and stop collecting passengers before they reach the city centre. Once they do hit the city centre they drop to glacial speeds.

Our heavy rail network also needs a solution to deal with massive capacity issues in the city centre. It also needs a way of joining up two rail lines that run into the city. Connecting these two lines would open up massive parts of the city.

This is why I believe Metro North and DART Underground are necessary. Capital might not be available right now, but the projects are still needed.

How do they get to the nearest metro station ? that's what I was pointing out. If people are happy to drive to the metro why are you not happy to drive to say the Luas/dart near them.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm sorry but what kind of stuff are people smoking when they say Dublin needs a Metro system... Dublin has less people than Manchester and that city does not have a Metro. I thought the Celtic tiger madness thinking had gone ?

In the long term a metro or any public transport keeps wealth inside the country. This is a way that e.g., Netherlands or Germany keeps a lot of money within it's own borders that in Ireland is pissed away by buying cars and importing petrol.

Wealth is finite. If someone has 30k, and buys a car, pretty much immediately e.g., Germany gets 15k extra into their country and the other half stays in Ireland. Everytime a litre of fuel goes in, more money goes off to Shell in the Netherlands or Statoil or whoever. Sure, a chunk a stays in Ireland, but there is a contsant stream of wealth/money/bazookabucks leaving Ireland on account of car dependency.

If that same person kept the 30k in the bank, had a bike, and a train ticket for unlimited travel yearly (around 3-4k judging by UK, NL, DE standards), the banks are kept stable, more money is earned internally by the wealth being loaned out internationally. This is why rich countries are staying rich.

Ireland's free for all liberal left-wing nonsense means any wealth is socialised away into the rest of the sensible world. The UK relies on the City to maintain wealth but is as piss poor as Ireland is once you leave central London.

So yes, a long lecture, but it is of massive importance to long term stability particularly economically that whatever wealth is in the country stays in the country as much as possible.

This stream or flow is the same when people on welfare spend the money on mobile phones from Samsung or Apple. Government taxation takes it in, back out, into the hands of a Korean or American company. It's the ultimate in wealth relocation and Ireland is like a teenager who hasn't learned the value of money.

There is very little in Ireland that is generating wealth coming in, taking it from other countries and people. That is against liberal doctrine. Instead we have a social churn to impoverish anyone with money, and a system that almost encourages a flow of wealth out to Germany, Netherlands, Korea, Japan or the US. The companies based there get the income, and then pay taxes to their own country's government, which then builds the efficient transport that keeps the money in, the people productive and continue to sell stuff to people too stupid to realise what is happening.

A metro might cost whatever, 500 millon a billion, 5 billion. If that means that over a 10 year period 30 billion is kept inside the country instead of frittered away on imported petrol? That is the economics of the situation. People complain about the public sector costing x, and "we still spend more than we earn" but the reality is this is short term thinking on things that are essential wheels of the state (healthcare, education). How much of wealth is wasted over a 5-10 year period (the period of time for building motorway networks or train networks)? Instead people arguing about 5% salary cuts for a 25 year old teacher, when the reality is that allowing that teacher to get a metro or bike instead of driving would save the country multiples of salary cuts, every year.

It doesn't need to be a metro, train, tram, bus, bike, whatever. The overall issue is exporting any wealth due to excess energy needs, primarily due to private car ownership.

dissed doc wrote: »

In the long term a metro or any public transport keeps wealth inside the country. This is a way that e.g., Netherlands or Germany keeps a lot of money within it's own borders that in Ireland is pissed away by buying cars and importing petrol.

So why does it have to be a massive metro system. There are many types of public transport.

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Nobody said anything about a massive metro system.

Op said Underground network