Can We Not Build Infrastructure Rather than Houses?

ClovenHoof · 05-03-2014 08:32PM #1

Why can't the Government just not build the underground network for Dublin and finish off the needed infrastructure around the country? Borrow the money - create thousands of jobs? Set the country up for the future?

How is this any less simplistic than waiting for house prices to come back or new car sales to show 'promising upswings"?

Please someone explain to me why we can't do this?

Hande hoche! · 05-03-2014 08:35PM

Would negatively influence the balance of trade. Materials needed would have to be imported.

darkpagandeath · 05-03-2014 08:35PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Why can't the Government just not build the underground network for Dublin and finish off the needed infrastructure around the country? Borrow the money - create thousands of jobs? Set the country up for the future?

How is this any less simplistic than waiting for house prices to come back or new car sales?

Please someone explain to me why we can't do this?

You mean the metro ? because we need a metro with having to move our millions of daily commuters in Dublin....:rolleyes:

ClovenHoof · 05-03-2014 08:36PM

The DART underground is already 30 years overdue. Was suppose to be in service by early 80s. Was needed back then. Dublin is much bigger now.

Sir Arthur Daley · 05-03-2014 08:36PM

They cant even fill the potholes not to mind anything else.

danniemcq · 05-03-2014 08:39PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The DART underground is already 30 years overdue. Was suppose to be in service by early 80s. Was needed back then. Dublin is much bigger now.

Underground ... UNDERGROUND

some of us would be happy enough with a train that goes above the ground

05-03-2014 08:40PM

Why conflate government spending on infrastructure with private spending (that's barely existed for 7 years) on dwellings?

05-03-2014 08:41PM

DannieHasABrazilian wrote: »

Underground ... UNDERGROUND

some of us would be happy enough with a train that goes above the ground

Yeah a tram in every county. One each. It's the only fair way.

darkpagandeath · 05-03-2014 08:41PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The DART underground is already 30 years overdue. Was suppose to be in service by early 80s. Was needed back then. Dublin is much bigger now.

Yeah is odd how the train and bus company's are not making profits ... with all these millions of customers who are unable to travel on these services due to over crowding......

ClovenHoof · 05-03-2014 08:43PM

DannieHasABrazilian wrote: »

Underground ... UNDERGROUND

some of us would be happy enough with a train that goes above the ground

Trains would be pointless in Donegal except for farmers driving tractors into them. Modern rail transport only works for sizeable urban areas.

If a train line was built to Donegal it would be a Fr Ted on steroids episode of Gombeen Armageddon proportions. Will never happen and Ireland would deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth if it was ever proposed seriously.

kneemos · 05-03-2014 08:43PM

Are they still borrowing two billion a week or whatever it is?
That might be the reason.

KyussBishop · 05-03-2014 08:44PM

Yes OP, that's pretty much the way for us to achieve proper economic recovery, re-employ people into working on widescale public works projects - same as what was done during the New Deal in the US, effectively.

ClovenHoof · 05-03-2014 08:48PM

Maybe it is a case of civil servant pensions first, economic long term survival nah?

KyussBishop · 05-03-2014 08:53PM

It's a problem with economic theory: The dominant economic/political-economic views, are neoliberalism and neoclassical economics - things most people have never heard of, but which are the dominant forms of thought when it comes to economics.

Problem is: Neither forms of thought, have anything to do with how economies work in reality. Economics is (in my own opinion) deliberately corrupted, with these false views, to make it easy for those who are already powerful and wealthy, to hold onto their power and pillage entire economies/countries.

Discussing this stuff though, is a topic that most people seem to find boring as fúck - probably because it leads to pretty acrimonious debates.

KevinEldon · 05-03-2014 09:00PM

Because some country folk don't like Dublin getting something badly needed and useful like the Metro or Dart Underground would be,as has been displayed already in this thread by a few posters.Never mind that it would boost the economy by making Dublin (where all the tax revenue that pays for rural services is generated) a far more attractive and productive place for businesses and tourist alike.

MS.ing · 05-03-2014 09:09PM

DannieHasABrazilian wrote: »

Underground ... UNDERGROUND

some of us would be happy enough with a train that goes above the ground

we already have one of those

http://www.irishrail.ie/timetables/timetable-pdfs

Lord Trollington · 05-03-2014 09:13PM

Schools , hospitals and an alternative source of power generation other than coal are far more important than an underground in Dublin in my opinion.

darkpagandeath · 05-03-2014 09:16PM

I'm sorry but what kind of stuff are people smoking when they say Dublin needs a Metro system... Dublin has less people than Manchester and that city does not have a Metro. I thought the Celtic tiger madness thinking had gone ?

theKillerBite · 05-03-2014 09:19PM

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Schools , hospitals and an alternative source of power generation other than coal are far more important than an underground in Dublin in my opinion.

Coal is cheap fuel. What we need to do is kick out the eco-terrorists who have imposed carbon taxes, carbon levies and PSO surcharges on our utility bills thus increasing the price of everything and making the country less competitive and increasing unemployment.

c_man · 05-03-2014 09:23PM

How about a space elevator?

05-03-2014 09:25PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm sorry but what kind of stuff are people smoking when they say Dublin needs a Metro system... Ireland has the same population as what Manchester and that city does not have a Metro. I thought the Celtic tiger madness thinking had gone ?

Have and need are 2 different things.

Dublin is in the top 10 most congested cities in Europe and is worse than London in case anyone was wondering.

theKillerBite · 05-03-2014 09:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Have and need are 2 different things.

Dublin is in the top 10 most congested cities in Europe and is worse than London in case anyone was wondering.

Well London was named the 2nd worst in Europe, and Brussels is the worst so...

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2014/3/5/london-is-second-most-congested-city-in-europe/49795/

05-03-2014 09:47PM

theKillerBite wrote: »

Well London was named the 2nd worst in Europe, and Brussels is the worst so...

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2014/3/5/london-is-second-most-congested-city-in-europe/49795/

And here's data analysed another way: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/picturegalleries/9406185/Top-10-most-congested-cities-in-Europe.html?frame=2279188 Your link shows time wasted total rather than as a proportion of total travel time, which I think is more accurate as a measure of congestion.

Borderfox · 05-03-2014 09:50PM

Monorail Monorail Monorail Monorail

WallyGUFC · 05-03-2014 09:51PM

KevinEldon wrote: »

Because some country folk don't like Dublin getting something badly needed and useful like the Metro or Dart Underground would be,as has been displayed already in this thread by a few posters.Never mind that it would boost the economy by making Dublin (where all the tax revenue that pays for rural services is generated) a far more attractive and productive place for businesses and tourist alike.

I'm pretty sure those of us outside Dublin pay tax too ya know...

05-03-2014 10:02PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Why can't the Government just not build the underground network for Dublin and finish off the needed infrastructure around the country? Borrow the money - create thousands of jobs? Set the country up for the future?

How is this any less simplistic than waiting for house prices to come back or new car sales to show 'promising upswings"?

Please someone explain to me why we can't do this?

We could really do with a bit of joined up thinking, build a decent transport system and urban housing that is family friendly and at a reasonable rent in and around Dublin city centre, there is plenty of derelict buildings that need knocking in prime locations for housing. There are many examples of family friendly flats around Europe to look at.

For Forks Sake · 05-03-2014 10:02PM

Borderfox wrote: »

Monorail Monorail Monorail Monorail

Mono....oh.

darkpagandeath · 05-03-2014 10:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Have and need are 2 different things.

Dublin is in the top 10 most congested cities in Europe and is worse than London in case anyone was wondering.

A lot of that is delivery's/haulage goods and so on. There is no issue getting into Dublin on the bus or train people choose to go in in cars. If you made everyone get the train/luas/bus into town i doubt there would be any need for a metro so why is it needed ? seems it’s a lot of x Eu capital has this why don't we thinking weather it’s actually feasible or needed.

05-03-2014 10:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Have and need are 2 different things.

Dublin is in the top 10 most congested cities in Europe and is worse than London in case anyone was wondering.

Congested due to bad decisions made in the past, make the country car dependent and then skimp on roads and then only build them too late. Insufficient rapid transit systems mean that many just stay in their cars. In London the majority of commuters wouldn't even dare to bring the car!

05-03-2014 10:08PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

A lot of that is delivery's/haulage goods and so on. There is no issue getting into Dublin on the bus or train people choose to go in in cars. If you made everyone get the train/luas/bus into town i doubt there would be any need for a metro so why is it needed ? seems it’s a lot of x Eu capital has this why don't we thinking weather it’s actually feasible or needed.

There is an issue for most as they live in places that don't have public transport nearby, so they need a car to do the first few miles, once in the cat they might as well stay in it the whole journey.

theKillerBite · 05-03-2014 10:09PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

A lot of that is delivery's/haulage goods and so on. There is no issue getting into Dublin on the bus or train people choose to go in in cars. If you made everyone get the train/luas/bus into town i doubt there would be any need for a metro so why is it needed ? seems it’s a lot of x Eu capital has this why don't we thinking weather it’s actually feasible or needed.

The Dart Underground was projected to cost €4billion. It was never going to be built. Maybe an option option would be charge a levy on car parking provided by employers within the city's canals. Similar to what was recently introduced in Nottingham.

Can We Not Build Infrastructure Rather than Houses?

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