The Jobbridge Scandal

Xenji · 04-03-2014 10:56PM

Smidge wrote: »

Prime Time tonight should be an interesting watch tonight.
Its about getting the long term unemployed "working" for the local authority.
I get a distinct whiff of a Jobsbridge type dealy off this
Are they going to tell us that they will be offering proper jobs to the LTU?
So people will be forced into taking these JOBS to keep their payment and then do a full days work along side people who are actually receiving a full wage for the same role?
That would drive any sane person to crack tbh

They are talking about it now.

Smidge · 04-03-2014 10:58PM

Xenji wrote: »

They are talking about it now.

I am recording it atm(someone else has taken over the telly:mad::D).

Xenji · 04-03-2014 11:07PM

Smidge wrote: »

I am recording it atm(someone else has taken over the telly:mad::D).

You will enjoy it, the two women and the grey haired fella were excellent and made great points, but the TD who came up with this idea is an absolute tool, smug idiot and I know for a fact some of the stuff he said about the council and training was not the truth.

Christ he is after saying you can retain your full benefits + the €20 and work in some other place for the other 3 days and you lose nothing, what planet is he on, clueless prick, I have never seen such a dick, they all told him this could not be true and of course it is not true and he is a TD saying this.

They are dead right about the Council and Local Authority Jobs, if they got rid of the moratorium tomorrow, you would have over 10000 jobs filled by the end of the week, myself and another lad are the only two workers in our council under the age of 30, well except for our interns on Jobbridge.

dxhound2005 · 04-03-2014 11:11PM

Xenji wrote: »

They are doing this in Dublin already, but the people only get an extra €20 a week.

http://www.thejournal.ie/unemployed-local-authority-work-1326427-Feb2014/

They want to do this all around the country, so that would push the number of people on Activation Schemes to well over 100,000 and of course bring down the the live register figures even though these people are still in receipt of social welfare.

They are making a poor attempt at this Slave Labour business if all they can increase the number by in a year is 2692.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregisterjanuary2014/

There were 86,162 people availing of these programmes in December 2013, which is an increase of 2,692 (+3.2%) from the previous year, when there were 83,470 people in activation programmes

If you look at the figures you will see nearly 50,000 are in education/training or on the self employed allowance. And of course Jobbridge which is the subject of this thread is only a small element around 6500.

It does reduce the live register but these makework programmes have been around a long time so it is comparing like with like. As far as I can see they are not counted in the numbers at work either, which is increasing.

This Government had better get it's skates on if they are going to get the 400,000 on the live register into the Slave Labour schemes in the next two years.

Smidge · 04-03-2014 11:15PM

Xenji wrote: »

You will enjoy it, the two women and the grey haired fella were excellent and made great points, but the TD who came up with this idea is an absolute tool, smug idiot and I know for a fact some of the stuff he said about the council and training was not the truth.

Christ he is after saying you can retain your full benefits + the €20 and work in some other place for the other 3 days and you lose nothing, what planet is he on, clueless prick, I have never seen such a dick, they all told him this could not be true and of course it is not true and he is a TD saying this.

They are dead right about the Council and Local Authority Jobs, if they got rid of the moratorium tomorrow, you would have over 10000 jobs filled by the end of the week, myself and another lad are the only two workers in our council under the age of 30, well except for our interns on Jobbridge.

Telly is now MINE....all mine

Xenji · 04-03-2014 11:17PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They are making a poor attempt at this Slave Labour business if all they can increase the number by in a year is 2692.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregisterjanuary2014/

There were 86,162 people availing of these programmes in December 2013, which is an increase of 2,692 (+3.2%) from the previous year, when there were 83,470 people in activation programmes

If you look at the figures you will see nearly 50,000 are in education/training or on the self employed allowance. And of course Jobbridge which is the subject of this thread is only a small element around 6500.

It does reduce the live register but these makework programmes have been around a long time so it is comparing like with like. As far as I can see they are not counted in the numbers at work either, which is increasing.

This Government had better get it's skates on if they are going to get the 400,000 on the live register into the Slave Labour schemes in the next two years.

It is more the fact that the CSO figure prove that the government is masking the unemployment figure by a fifth of what it actually is and any drop they harp on about is caused by 200 a month or more taking up these schemes.

You can say 6500 is a small element, but I am sure as hell that this country needs those 6500 placements to be real jobs and not internships, and the possible 78000 placements nationwide that this new scheme could be forcing people into need to be real jobs as well.

Xenji · 04-03-2014 11:21PM

"2 or 3 years down the road for the moratorium to be lifted", well there is proof that they are extending it again, it was due to be lifted at the end of this year. I mentioned it earlier, but people have coped on to the Jobbridge scheme with our council, for the first time we advertised an internship and had not had any response, same happened with two other departments as well.

Stavros Murphy · 04-03-2014 11:22PM

I wouldn't hire someone on the Jobbridge scheme- I'd not be able to look them in the eye of a friday. Yer wan banging on about it being about "the dignity" of working, not the pay, jasus wept. She should get a piece of paper with "think of the dignity" on it for her next paycheck.

shroom007 · 04-03-2014 11:25PM

whos that baldy smug cnut wheres he from I missed the start

Xenji · 04-03-2014 11:25PM

So the core jobs in the council will not be allowed done, I knew this and mentioned this, but was he not saying earlier that the people on the scheme would get training, they really picked the wrong man to try and push this scheme, he is all over the place.

Xenji · 04-03-2014 11:26PM

shroom007 wrote: »

whos that baldy smug cnut wheres he from I missed the start

Jim Daly Fine Gael TD, he came up with the scheme.

Smidge · 04-03-2014 11:27PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I wouldn't hire someone on the Jobbridge scheme- I'd not be able to look them in the eye of a friday. Yer wan banging on about it being about "the dignity" of working, not the pay, jasus wept. She should get a piece of paper with "think of the dignity" on it for her next paycheck.

I really believe they have no shame at this stage.
There are people who work for the "love" of what they do but they would be imo in a serious minority. The rest of us work because we need the MONEY. Simples.

How long can this continue?

Ace2007 · 04-03-2014 11:30PM

Smidge wrote: »

How long can this continue?

When's the next General Election?

Xenji · 04-03-2014 11:32PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

When's the next General Election?

The next Irish general election must take place no later than 8 April 2016

shroom007 · 04-03-2014 11:32PM

Xenji wrote: »

Fine Gael TD, he came up with the scheme.

of course he is, has anyone in fine gael ever actualy done a real job.
they all come across as if the've spent there life playing dress up as politicians in a tent out the back garden.

he's one for the future then arse licking prcik

Smidge · 04-03-2014 11:35PM

Oh sweet jesus :eek:
Baldy just said(I'm behind watching the programme so apologies)that the Dept of Social Protection are spending 1 BILLION a year on developing an putting in place these "initiatives" :eek:

Xenji · 04-03-2014 11:37PM

Smidge wrote: »

Oh sweet jesus :eek:
Baldy just said(I'm behind watching the programme so apologies)that the Dept of Social Protection are spending 1 BILLION a year on developing an putting in place these "initiatives" :eek:

Which he said was 5% of their overall spending, that means they are spending €20 Billion a year.

dxhound2005 · 04-03-2014 11:38PM

Smidge wrote: »

Oh sweet jesus :eek:
Baldy just said(I'm behind watching the programme so apologies)that the Dept of Social Protection are spending 1 BILLION a year on developing an putting in place these "initiatives" :eek:

Don't be so alarmed. The Social Welfare bill is €20 billion. Might even be some of it coming into your house.

RayM · 04-03-2014 11:39PM

Xenji wrote: »

Christ he is after saying you can retain your full benefits + the €20 and work in some other place for the other 3 days and you lose nothing, what planet is he on, clueless prick, I have never seen such a dick, they all told him this could not be true and of course it is not true and he is a TD saying this.

I think that part is true. If you're doing Gateway or Tús, You're no longer classed as being on the dole. Therefore you're free to take on another job without losing your payment, as long as your participation in the scheme isn't affected.

The biggest problem with Gateway is that it's being forced upon people, rather than being sold to them. The term 'Labour Activation Measure' is insulting. It implies that the problem lies with the unemployed, who just need a kick up the arse, rather than with the lack of jobs out there for them.

Xenji · 04-03-2014 11:44PM

RayM wrote: »

I think that part is true. If you're doing Gateway or Tús, You're no longer classed as being on the dole. Therefore you're free to take on another job without losing your payment, as long as your participation in the scheme isn't affected.

The biggest problem with Gateway is that it's being forced upon people, rather than being sold to them. The term 'Labour Activation Measure' is insulting. It implies that the problem lies with the unemployed, who just need a kick up the arse, rather than with the lack of jobs out there for them.

Possibly, the others did not seem to think it was right, you could be making a good bit of scratch off of that if it is the case, €208 base and lets say 20 hours at minimum wage, €381 euro for a 40 hour week, it is more than you would get working a full time minimum wage job 40 hours a week and hardly any tax. I remember being on the X's and O's years ago and I was making around €440 a week working a 3 day week.

Smidge · 04-03-2014 11:46PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Don't be so alarmed. The Social Welfare bill is €20 billion. Might even be some of it coming into your house.[/QUOTE]

I think I am quite rightly alarmed as so should every other right minded person.
1 BILLION euro is still 1 BILLION euro.
It is being used not for paying tutors on courses teaching people new skills/upskill.
It is not being used to build training centres.

It is being used to enable gombeens to sit around and come up with crack pot schemes like jobsbridge/council employment etc.
Can you clarify the bit in bold?

shroom007 · 04-03-2014 11:47PM

Smidge wrote: »

Oh sweet jesus :eek:
Baldy just said(I'm behind watching the programme so apologies)that the Dept of Social Protection are spending 1 BILLION a year on developing an putting in place these "initiatives" :eek:

Don't worry he's got Minister written all over him,I can see bouncing up and down all excited in front of enda "and I've got other Idea's too" nurse's on CE Schemes, Clamping bicycles,mobile phone licence, arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Im moving to the ukraine their goin places

kylith · 05-03-2014 12:07AM

Xenji wrote: »

They are dead right about the Council and Local Authority Jobs, if they got rid of the moratorium tomorrow, you would have over 10000 jobs filled by the end of the week, myself and another lad are the only two workers in our council under the age of 30, well except for our interns on Jobbridge.

A woman I know is retiring from the HSE in the next year and part of her reason for leaving is that she is currently doing the work of three people because of the moratorium.

shroom007 wrote: »

Im moving to the ukraine their goin places

Yeah, Russia

RayM · 05-03-2014 12:12AM

Xenji wrote: »

Possibly, the others did not seem to think it was right, you could be making a good bit of scratch off of that if it is the case, €208 base and lets say 20 hours at minimum wage, €381 euro for a 40 hour week, it is more than you would get working a full time minimum wage job 40 hours a week and hardly any tax. I remember being on the X's and O's years ago and I was making around €440 a week working a 3 day week.

This is why they should be using the carrot, rather than the stick. If you were lucky enough to find a part-time job while on Gateway (or even a full-time job - there's nothing to stop you from working an extra 40 hours per week, as long as you can still squeeze the 19.5 Gateway hours in), it would be a very attractive scheme.

The government is doing it all wrong. They go on about the dignity of getting up and going out to work every day. Well, there's nothing dignified about receiving a letter telling you that you have to take up one of these positions, or else risk having your benefits cut. Those kind of threats automatically leave a bad taste in your mouth. Especially when they're simultaneously trying to describe it as an 'opportunity'. If they genuinely believe that it's a positive opportunity, then why bother with the threatening language?

And then there's the stuff about 'cutting the grass and picking up rubbish'. They're allowing that kind of rhetoric to go completely unchecked. There are quite a few different types of position available, and it's not going to be in any County Council's interest to push people into unsuitable jobs. They need to reassure people that participation in Gateway doesn't mean being that you're going to be forced to do all the shitty jobs that nobody else wants.

Xenji · 05-03-2014 12:17AM

RayM wrote: »

This is why they should be using the carrot, rather than the stick. If you were lucky enough to find a part-time job while on Gateway (or even a full-time job - there's nothing to stop you from working an extra 40 hours per week, as long as you can still squeeze the 19.5 Gateway hours in), it would be a very attractive scheme.

The government is doing it all wrong. They go on about the dignity of getting up and going out to work every day. Well, there's nothing dignified about receiving a letter telling you that you have to take up one of these positions, or else risk having your benefits cut. Those kind of threats automatically leave a bad taste in your mouth. Especially when they're simultaneously trying to describe it as an 'opportunity'. If they genuinely believe that it's a positive opportunity, then why bother with the threatening language?

And then there's the stuff about 'cutting the grass and picking up rubbish'. They're allowing that kind of rhetoric to go completely unchecked. There are quite a few different types of position available, and it's not going to be in any County Council's interest to push people into unsuitable jobs. They need to reassure people that participation in Gateway doesn't mean being that you're going to be forced to do all the shitty jobs that nobody else wants.

We already have interns in on Jobbridge doing them, not saying everything that they do is ****ty, but they do a lot of the leg work and tedious stuff, we have had well over 100 interns since the start of the scheme.

From what I was told they would not be in the offices or doing clerical work, as that is what we have the interns for and as they are hired based on their skills and have taken the initiative to apply for the internship and know they will gain valuable experience and have something good on their CV at the end of it. They do not think people who are being forced to work will have the greatest work ethic, especially when it is not possible to get a council job at the end of it.

dxhound2005 · 05-03-2014 12:20AM

Smidge wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Don't be so alarmed. The Social Welfare bill is €20 billion. Might even be some of it coming into your house.[/QUOTE]

I think I am quite rightly alarmed as so should every other right minded person.
1 BILLION euro is still 1 BILLION euro.
It is being used not for paying tutors on courses teaching people new skills/upskill.
It is not being used to build training centres.

It is being used to enable gombeens to sit around and come up with crack pot schemes like jobsbridge/council employment etc.
Can you clarify the bit in bold?

The €20 billion is not just going to unemployed people. Your household would be in the minority if some of the money wasn't making it's way there.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1026476.shtml

This year, the Department of Social Protection will spend over €20.24bn on its entire range of schemes, services, and administration. At the end of May, there were 1.476m people receiving a weekly payment in respect of 2.283m beneficiaries. In addition, some 614,000 families were in receipt of the monthly child benefit payment.

Smidge · 05-03-2014 12:23AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Smidge wrote: »

The €20 billion is not just going to unemployed people. Your household would be in the minority if some of the money wasn't making it's way there.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1026476.shtml

This year, the Department of Social Protection will spend over €20.24bn on its entire range of schemes, services, and administration. At the end of May, there were 1.476m people receiving a weekly payment in respect of 2.283m beneficiaries. In addition, some 614,000 families were in receipt of the monthly child benefit payment.

In fairness though dx, I wasn't talking about the entire spend for the Dept of social protection.
I am aghast at 1 Billion euro being used to fund the development of these schemes.
I mean, its a Billion euro!!

shruikan2553 · 05-03-2014 12:26AM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I wouldn't hire someone on the Jobbridge scheme- I'd not be able to look them in the eye of a friday. Yer wan banging on about it being about "the dignity" of working, not the pay, jasus wept. She should get a piece of paper with "think of the dignity" on it for her next paycheck.

Sadly I cant pay my rent with dignity. Well, I suppose I can depending on the person Im renting from but its no good for buying milk in Tesco, the self service checkout isn't made for that sort of thing.

dxhound2005 · 05-03-2014 12:31AM

Smidge wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

In fairness though dx, I wasn't talking about the entire spend for the Dept of social protection.
I am aghast at 1 Billion euro being used to fund the development of these schemes.
I mean, its a Billion euro!!

Well like I said earlier on over half of them are in some sort of education or training. You could regard them as being in the same position as some of the more mature students at our third level institutions. They get student grants, the ones on the schemes get the dole. And another 10,000 are getting the dole while trying the self employment route. Leaving about 35,000 on the make work (Slave Labour if you like) schemes. I don't know if this is any sort of value for money but 400,000 more are getting their dole for doing nothing.

Smidge · 05-03-2014 12:34AM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Sadly I cant pay my rent with dignity. Well, I suppose I can depending on the person Im renting from but its no good for buying milk in Tesco, the self service checkout isn't made for that sort of thing.

I thought that particular comment was terrible.
How out of touch are these people??
I'm sure there are a few ne'er do wells who are LTU but the vast majority want a job.
Dignity is what you get when you have a job that pays so you don't have to scrimp and scrounge and panic at every bill, every request from schools for money and so on.
Dignity is being able to provide for yourself and family.

The Jobbridge Scandal

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