A message to wannabe teachers - Stay away from teaching.

Peter Flynt · 03-03-2014 12:06AM

I've worked about 7-8 hours today . . . Yesterday I worked about 5 hours in the school. I have an inspection tomorrow but these hours would not be abnormal on a weekend.

Had a pile of hours added in clearing up stuff in the Labs, doing up folders, etc. . as the DES doesn't provide Lab Assistants as are provided in private schools.

At this stage I'm just so pissed off with the add-ons.

Every few months or so there's something new.

evolving_doors · 03-03-2014 12:16AM

Musicmental85 wrote: »

I use edmodo at home. I don't answer students after 830/9pm, ......[...]

But should you have to? I'd prefer not to have to answer students after 4pm! I literally don't get paid to teach from home. (I don;t even get paid for the housework either!). Once a precedent is set and a large number of teachers 'flip the classroom' then parents will be giving out to teachers who prefer to leave their teaching for the classroom. As was evidenced in the Extra Curricular thread..... I agree with the rest of what you said btw.

seavill · 03-03-2014 12:32AM

Armelodie wrote: »

But should you have to? I'd prefer not to have to answer students after 4pm! I literally don't get paid to teach from home. (I don;t even get paid for the housework either!). Once a precedent is set and a large number of teachers 'flip the classroom' then parents will be giving out to teachers who prefer to leave their teaching for the classroom. As was evidenced in the Extra Curricular thread..... I agree with the rest of what you said btw.

Where did they say they had to? Maybe they want to as opposed to have to.

But to answer your reply to my post.
My issue is not with the moral of the point. Obviously how much pressure you are under inside and outside of school for all the reasons listed will have an overall effect in your job and your private life.

My issue was with my personal life being questioned on here. I will repeat it is no ones business only mine. I am not here to be questioned by someone I don't know on a public forum. The fact that I was the only one to be different and the only one to be questioned on personal issues is where my issue lies.

poolsandles · 03-03-2014 12:41AM

I would echo what other posters have said about the reality of teaching and have one more point I think people who are considering teaching should be aware of.

Abuse from parents.

Nobody will tell you in college that there are parents out there that will try to make life very difficult for you.

They will question your teaching and tell you that you are doing it wrong when they have no idea what they are talking about but think they know better than you do.

They will question your authority and tell you there is no way their little darling could misbehave in class or is bullying another child, you must be wrong and they are right.

There are parents who will have no interest in their child's education and will look at you as nothing more than a glorified babysitter.

Of course not all parents are like this, there are wonderful parents out there who will support you and do everything possible to make sure their child gets the best education possible, which is what we all want at the end of the day.

I just think anyone considering teaching needs to be aware that dealing with abusive parents is now a big part of the job no matter what type of school you are in. I wish someone had told me.

OneWayAround · 03-03-2014 12:49AM

I know teachers have a tough job and I know looking after teenagers isn't easy but how come you never hear teachers discussing what's best for their students? All you hear is about pay, the hours preparation, supervision etc. I know it sounds a bit like I'm saying 'wont someone please think of the children' but I never hear teachers mention what's best for them, only how they have it so hard. Just look at this thread. Don't throw abuse at me, I'm just commenting.

Jimmy Iovine · 03-03-2014 12:58AM

SarahBeep! wrote: »

I'm in my first year of teaching over in London. 55-60 hours a week is pretty much what I'm working. I'm no stranger to hard work but I worry about how sustainable this is.
My friends try and rile me about the holidays I get 'Oh poor you, you had to work 6 whole weeks after your two weeks and Christmas before you get another week off!' but when we have time off I'm too knackered to enjoy it! I come home and I feel drained. All I do is work and sleep. I'm almost 22 and if I feel like this now, how will I be in 10 years time?

I'm also in England and the workload is crazy.

I will be in school at 7 tomorrow morning. I'll have two hours almost to get things ready for the week. I'll be lucky if I get organised for tomorrow.

We have a 90-minute staff meeting every single week and I'm in charge of the football team.

Our copies and planning gets taken up on a very regular basis to be examined and scrutinised. My Maths planning and five copies were taken on Friday.

I feel privileged to have a job but I don't have a life during the week. My girlfriend is coming over to me next weekend. I'll spend the following week trying to catch up on the work I should have been doing at the weekend.

Oh and then there's the one word that strikes fear into the hearts and minds of every teacher in England - OFSTED!

scoopmine · 03-03-2014 01:04AM

I'm doing the PDE at the minute. I love teaching but all these stories and posts would make you feel very dishearted. I have accepted that its very unlikely I will be in Ireland come September.

Peter Flynt · 03-03-2014 01:12AM

seavill wrote: »

Where did they say they had to? Maybe they want to as opposed to have to.

But to answer your reply to my post.
My issue is not with the moral of the point. Obviously how much pressure you are under inside and outside of school for all the reasons listed will have an overall effect in your job and your private life.

My issue was with my personal life being questioned on here. I will repeat it is no ones business only mine. I am not here to be questioned by someone I don't know on a public forum. The fact that I was the only one to be different and the only one to be questioned on personal issues is where my issue lies.

Get over yourself. . . No one is interested in your personal life.

Saying you love teaching is all well and good. . . Your circumstances are very much different to others. There is very little in the opening post that you've argued against.

SarahBeep! · 03-03-2014 01:13AM

OneWayAround wrote: »

I know teachers have a tough job and I know looking after teenagers isn't easy but how come you never hear teachers discussing what's best for their students? All you hear is about pay, the hours preparation, supervision etc. I know it sounds a bit like I'm saying 'wont someone please think of the children' but I never hear teachers mention what's best for them, only how they have it so hard. Just look at this thread. Don't throw abuse at me, I'm just commenting.

Would you get into a car with a taxi driver who'd been working for 12 hours with only a 20 minute break and a 40 minute lunch? I'd hope not. I we are not at our best then neither is our teaching. What we do is both mentally and physically draining. Things like knowing I won't be called for cover on period 1 Tuesday morning cut my stress loads in half. If I didn't have the silly meeting I have after school on Wednesday I could get 10-15 books marked in that time. Of course we're going to give out about our workload, and most definitely our wages if we feel we are not being paid accordingly.
On a daily basis we are teachers, parents, counsellors, social workers, doctors, referees, crowd controllers and therapists. All that and more.

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

I'm also in England and the workload is crazy.

I will be in school at 7 tomorrow morning. I'll have two hours almost to get things ready for the week. I'll be lucky if I get organised for tomorrow.

We have a 90-minute staff meeting every single week and I'm in charge of the football team.

Our copies and planning gets taken up on a very regular basis to be examined and scrutinised. My Maths planning and five copies were taken on Friday.

I feel privileged to have a job but I don't have a life during the week. My girlfriend is coming over to me next weekend. I'll spend the following week trying to catch up on the work I should have been doing at the weekend.

Oh and then there's the one word that strikes fear into the hearts and minds of every teacher in England - OFSTED!

I'm in my NQT year, right of the back of finishing my degree (no dip, did a B.Ed) and I'm a science teacher but the majority of my time is spent doing maths and numeracy, neither of which I have any training in.

I felt guilty for not bringing home books to mark this weekend.

We have a meeting first thing on a Monday morning before registration. Then after school Wednesday we have mandatory new staff training! As well as my NQT insets to get my QTS and being over my hours I feel like I'm spreading myself so thin. Not to mention I have to do academic mentoring with my form kids one on one in my non contact periods. We work on a 2 week timetable and I only have 5 free out of 50 periods.

Bloody hell, I hear what you're saying. My alarm is set for 6, more than once I'm pretty sure I was the first member of the teaching staff on site.

seavill · 03-03-2014 08:49AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Get over yourself. . . No one is interested in your personal life.

Saying you love teaching is all well and good. . . Your circumstances are very much different to others. There is very little in the opening post that you've argued against.

Ah look there is no need for that at all. Certainly doesn't help anything.

Someone did question aspects of my personal life if you go back a few pages.

Yes my circumstances are different to others that is why I felt it was important to give the readers here you aimed the thread at the other side of the argument. I don't feel there is anything wrong with that but once again you attack nothing new there except I'm not going to get dragged into it with you again. Had I gone through your post point for point you would have attacked me long before now. I think it was musicmental that altered several of your points but as you turn everything very personal every time your hang ups from previous threads you would certainly have jumped on me for doing it like you do now.
I have said numerous times that I accept quite a lot of what you said. I wasn't looking to argue with anything. As mentioned some if the points made were a little over dramatic but look that's passion for the cause I suppose. But there wasn't anything that was wrong in general with the ideas of what you were saying.
Overall I just said that it is possible to still enjoy the job despite all of that depending on how things work out for you.
I asked you a question you refused to answer but as I don't want to get into another row and drag a thread off topic I let it go rather than make an issue.
Look people can agree and disagree on things without it doesn't mean you have to jump on people that you think are against you. I would say at least 5 tes I have said I agree with the idea of all the changes that have happened that you and others have mentioned. Just my outcomes are slightly different. It's about putting a balanced discussion out there which I feel there is nothing wrong with.

km79 · 03-03-2014 09:08AM

OneWayAround wrote: »

I know teachers have a tough job and I know looking after teenagers isn't easy but how come you never hear teachers discussing what's best for their students? All you hear is about pay, the hours preparation, supervision etc. I know it sounds a bit like I'm saying 'wont someone please think of the children' but I never hear teachers mention what's best for them, only how they have it so hard. Just look at this thread. Don't throw abuse at me, I'm just commenting.

ALL my discussions during school day centre around students. Tests, projects, matches etc. Do you think it would be professional to use a discussion forum on the Internet to talk about students?

The protest about JCSA is entirely about whats best for the students. If you are a parent I would urge you to read up on it too.

Peter Flynt · 03-03-2014 09:11AM

seavill wrote: »

Ah look there is no need for that at all. Certainly doesn't help anything.

Someone did question aspects of my personal life if you go back a few pages.

Yes my circumstances are different to others that is why I felt it was important to give the readers here you aimed the thread at the other side of the argument. I don't feel there is anything wrong with that but once again you attack nothing new there except I'm not going to get dragged into it with you again. Had I gone through your post point for point you would have attacked me long before now. I think it was musicmental that altered several of your points but as you turn everything very personal every time your hang ups from previous threads you would certainly have jumped on me for doing it like you do now.

Attack? . . Jeez - you're forever the victim aren't you? Musicmental didn't alter anything. He/She took each of my points and gave their own opinion . . . which I supported and liked.

Off you go - Go through my points one by one

Overall I just said that it is possible to still enjoy the job despite all of that depending on how things work out for you.

It's possible to enjoy any job. That doesn't mean the terms, conditions and pay of the primary practitoners (the teachers) aren't being decimated.

How different would your life be now if you were to go out as a fresh graduate today?

What are your subjects?

I asked you a question you refused to answer but as I don't want to get into another row and drag a thread off topic I let it go rather than make an issue.
Look people can agree and disagree on things without it doesn't mean you have to jump on people that you think are against you. I would say at least 5 tes I have said I agree with the idea of all the changes that have happened that you and others have mentioned. Just my outcomes are slightly different. It's about putting a balanced discussion out there which I feel there is nothing wrong with.

Regarding your question - which I think was about Haddington Road S&S. I'm a Science/Chemistry teacher. I need to know when I'm free to prepare classes as they are very intensive (preparing reagents etc. . ). I cannot do that on 4 periods a week.

Your point about me only to be called for any number of the five is irrelevant. I'm ON CALL for all 5. People usually get paid for being on call in most walks of life. If I'm ON CALL then I'm not making myself available for anything else.
I hope I've made that clear.

seavill · 03-03-2014 09:22AM

That wasn't what I asked you but look you are on the offensive already again.

I'm not interested in getting into a row with you anymore. It's getting tiresome at this stage. You are incapable of having a mature discussion without going over the top on everything.

I agreed several times with what you and others said. I'll bow out if this thread and possibly website altogether as I feel it would be better. I'll finish with this I acknowledge and have done on this thread several times that it is a difficult job and things have changed dramatically over the years since I have been there and before. However depending on where you end up and your "circumstances" it can be an extremely rewarding enjoyable job at the same time which is the way I currently feel about the job.

Those reading this take in everything that was written understand it all fully but if it's what you really really want to do my advice go for it

Windorah · 03-03-2014 10:50AM

I agree with an awful lot of what has been said about previously. I was "lucky" to get a one year temp contract and two maternity leaves after graduation spread over a few years...

I left Ireland 3 years ago and I'm currently applying for permanent residency in Australia.

Four teachers in my school are Irish trained. The board of management in my school has actually said they HEADHUNT Irish trained teachers as we are considered the best trained teachers in the world apparently (not my words!).

Good job they don't have to look too far...!

Dickie10 · 03-03-2014 04:31PM

im currently in final BA year doing history and geography, I was thinking of doin teaching now im not so sure!, I was attracted by the flexible time schedeule and love of the subjects I have and trying to endear students to that love as well. I have to run a drystock farm of 120 acres and this I thought I could do along with teaching am I off my head ??

whiteandlight · 03-03-2014 04:56PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

im currently in final BA year doing history and geography, I was thinking of doin teaching now im not so sure!, I was attracted by the flexible time schedeule and love of the subjects I have and trying to endear students to that love as well. I have to run a drystock farm of 120 acres and this I thought I could do along with teaching am I off my head ??

How much time does the farming take? There is no flexibility in time schedule-unless you mean the holidays? The downside is that there is absolutely no leeway on the days the school is open. Either you are in the building or you are out sick. It is increasingly difficult to arrange any other time off, even if for a legitimate reason-sick child etc. There is no annual leave that you can take for circumstances like this.

Aside from that all of the other points above stand. Jobs are few and far between and generally for very poor hours. In addition your subjects wouldn't be hugely in demand, particularly as I think the proposed new JC will reduce the hours for those subjects.

Having said that as Seavill says above, it can be an extremely rewarding job, you just have to go in with your eyes open

nqtfarmer · 03-03-2014 05:39PM

Hi Dickie10,
I am in a similar position to you with the hope of teaching and farming in the future. I am a teacher and have been fortunate to have gotten 2 maternity leave covers in a row since graduation. In my opinion, of course you will be able to farm. The biggest problem is getting a job within commutable distance of the farm.
I'm a travelling salesman essentially, send CVs out anywhere and everywhere and I take work where I get it. This is what it is like for the first 5 years of your career. In my opinion, getting a permanent job straight away could be detrimental to your professional development, out look and attitude.
As for staying away from teaching - changes are happening and I believe they are for the best. Yes there will be an increased workload, yes there is worse pay, yes the kids can be a struggle.......
But its the best damn job in the world so lets look positively......

whiteandlight · 03-03-2014 06:42PM

nqtfarmer wrote: »

Hi Dickie10,
I am in a similar position to you with the hope of teaching and farming in the future. I am a teacher and have been fortunate to have gotten 2 maternity leave covers in a row since graduation. In my opinion, of course you will be able to farm. The biggest problem is getting a job within commutable distance of the farm.
I'm a travelling salesman essentially, send CVs out anywhere and everywhere and I take work where I get it. This is what it is like for the first 5 years of your career. In my opinion, getting a permanent job straight away could be detrimental to your professional development, out look and attitude.
As for staying away from teaching - changes are happening and I believe they are for the best. Yes there will be an increased workload, yes there is worse pay, yes the kids can be a struggle.......
But its the best damn job in the world so lets look positively......

It is going to be much longer than 5 years before getting a CID if you only get maternity cover. Commutable distance to the farm could be a major problem depending on the location. A large majority of schools in the west are over quote.

May I ask why you think the incoming changes are for the best?

I do agree with you in that I love my job but would you not say that it being the best damn job in the world really depends on you loving the work, not the perks?

phish · 03-03-2014 06:43PM

Windorah wrote: »

I agree with an awful lot of what has been said about previously. I was "lucky" to get a one year temp contract and two maternity leaves after graduation spread over a few years...

I left Ireland 3 years ago and I'm currently applying for permanent residency in Australia.

Four teachers in my school are Irish trained. The board of management in my school has actually said they HEADHUNT Irish trained teachers as we are considered the best trained teachers in the world apparently (not my words!).

Good job they don't have to look too far...!

Out of interest what is it like teaching in Australia?

nqtfarmer · 03-03-2014 08:27PM

I feel the junior cert is burdensome for many students and admire the hope for developing student skills - as an English teacher I have attended the new JC in services. But of course there are doubts and concerns!!!!
That's it, I enjoy the classroom and I supervise state exams and correct for my summers essentially leaving me with summer holidays beginning 26tg of July.
You're absolutely right about the farm....but that's where I see myself.
Maybe I'm naive and as a sub of course I've less responsibility in the departments but all the negativity can be difficulty

Afroshack · 03-03-2014 08:37PM

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

I'm also in England and the workload is crazy.

I will be in school at 7 tomorrow morning. I'll have two hours almost to get things ready for the week. I'll be lucky if I get organised for tomorrow.

We have a 90-minute staff meeting every single week and I'm in charge of the football team.

Our copies and planning gets taken up on a very regular basis to be examined and scrutinised. My Maths planning and five copies were taken on Friday.

I feel privileged to have a job but I don't have a life during the week. My girlfriend is coming over to me next weekend. I'll spend the following week trying to catch up on the work I should have been doing at the weekend.

Oh and then there's the one word that strikes fear into the hearts and minds of every teacher in England - OFSTED!

I can fully empathise, I work at least 10 hours a day and about 4-5 at the weekend. I actually feel guilty when I don't do a 12 hour day because there's just so much planning/correcting to do. I also run a blog to keep my students updated on all their work and I have a lot of NQT meetings/folders to take care of. Don't get me wrong, I love my job but I never 'clock out' and I always worry about the amount of work I have left to do/kids who have not hit their targets/next week's lesson plan etc. I can see Ireland heading in that direction and it saddens me

vamos! · 03-03-2014 08:54PM

I am in Ireland and have been keeping a tally of my hours since Christmas. Shocking! I have worked from 7am most Saturdays, past 11pm at least 2 nights a week and the orals chaos starts for real next week. I still haven't updated the subject plans from last year, haven't resources sourced for the week after next and have no photocopying done for tomorrow morning. I have less extra-curricular than before. It is shocking the time corrections take and there is an expectation in my school that the copies are taken up every week. I can't imagine what will happen when more paperwork is forced on us. I will have to give up sleeping or take up a Red Bull habit!

donegal11 · 03-03-2014 08:56PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

im currently in final BA year doing history and geography, I was thinking of doin teaching now im not so sure!, I was attracted by the flexible time schedeule and love of the subjects I have and trying to endear students to that love as well. I have to run a drystock farm of 120 acres and this I thought I could do along with teaching am I off my head ??

Getting a job beside the farm persuming you live in a rural setting would be very difficult without contacts. The majority of new rural teachers get work in dublin or abroad (england,UAE etc)and then apply for any job openings at home with the extra experience they have.

2011abc · 03-03-2014 08:59PM

vamos! wrote: »

I am in Ireland and have been keeping a tally of my hours since Christmas. Shocking! I have worked from 7am most Saturdays, past 11pm at least 2 nights a week and the orals chaos starts for real next week. I still haven't updated the subject plans from last year, haven't resources sourced for the week after next and have no photocopying done for tomorrow morning. I have less extra-curricular than before. It is shocking the time corrections take and there is an expectation in my school that the copies are taken up every week. I can't imagine what will happen when more paperwork is forced on us. I will have to give up sleeping or take up a Red Bull habit!

Our education system was the envy of the world when teachers were far more relaxed and did far less ' paperwork ' .Now they try work us like slaves and then complain when standards slip.Hmmmm......Are they all complete morons or what!?

Inspector Coptoor · 03-03-2014 09:03PM

Yes.
They are.
Especially Quinn

Dickie10 · 03-03-2014 09:04PM

yeah luckily im in the east of the country in the commuter belt so hopefully with a rising population I might get somewhere within 25 mile. still if I work n any other public job its going to be 9-5 anyway and you still get mid term in feb mid term in oct, 2 weeks at xmas and a week in easter and at least from 1st july to 25 august that's not bad no matter what way you look at it. I could probarbly get by not too bad on a part time basis teaching for a few years as I have inherited a house and don't have a mortgage to pay, im lucky in that sense. my previous job was 8-5.30 with 2 weeks holidays and less money so im used to not much financial reward for hard work unfortunately. what about adult education are there any vacancies in that or is it worse again?

vamos! · 03-03-2014 09:07PM

2011abc wrote: »

Our education system was the envy of the world when teachers were far more relaxed and did far less ' paperwork ' .Now they try work us like slaves and then complain when standards slip.Hmmmm......Are they all complete morons or what!?

I don't know if my enthusiasm is slipping or if I am just getting tired. I can totally understand how people burn out in the UK system. I really really resent going home at 6 after useless HRA hours to do another 2 hours work which I actually have to do. I also think parents used to either thank you or not acknowledge extra work but they now expect it. Could you just type up a few notes for when we are on holidays, why is there no blog, my child uses mind maps so could you please draw them up for your subject, could you organise his copy etc etc etc. Then more and more are openly hostile and downright rude at Parent Teacher Meetings over the smallest and silliest of things, like you daring suggest their C student is doing their best. I love my job most of the time... I am a bit stressed at the moment. I don't know if I would recommend teaching to my nearest and dearest though, even if jobs were easier to come by.

vamos! · 03-03-2014 09:10PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

yeah luckily im in the east of the country in the commuter belt so hopefully with a rising population I might get somewhere within 25 mile. still if I work n any other public job its going to be 9-5 anyway and you still get mid term in feb mid term in oct, 2 weeks at xmas and a week in easter and at least from 1st july to 25 august that's not bad no matter what way you look at it. I could probarbly get by not too bad on a part time basis teaching for a few years as I have inherited a house and don't have a mortgage to pay, im lucky in that sense. my previous job was 8-5.30 with 2 weeks holidays and less money so im used to not much financial reward for hard work unfortunately. what about adult education are there any vacancies in that or is it worse again?

even if you are lucky to get a job where will you find the time? There is loads of time off and the holidays are great but I spend an inordinate amount of my term-time weeks off and weekend doing school-related work. I wouldn't have time to have another job. I don't know what kind of a farm you are talking about but if you are up at night for calving, you will not be on form the next day. You need to give 110% to every single class and can't take easy on off-days like you might be able to do in other jobs.

gaeilgebeo · 03-03-2014 09:20PM

nqtfarmer wrote: »

I feel the junior cert is burdensome for many students and admire the hope for developing student skills

Please don't be under the illusion that the Junior Cert reform is anything other than a money-saving exercise.

While I admire your energy and enthusiasm (if somewhat naive), I wonder if you'll feel the same after working 10+ years.

amacca · 03-03-2014 09:41PM

vamos! wrote: »

I am in Ireland and have been keeping a tally of my hours since Christmas. Shocking! I have worked from 7am most Saturdays, past 11pm at least 2 nights a week and the orals chaos starts for real next week. I still haven't updated the subject plans from last year, haven't resources sourced for the week after next and have no photocopying done for tomorrow morning. I have less extra-curricular than before. It is shocking the time corrections take and there is an expectation in my school that the copies are taken up every week. I can't imagine what will happen when more paperwork is forced on us. I will have to give up sleeping or take up a Red Bull habit!

the only response I can think to this is…..work to absolute minimum standards and start looking elsewhere for other work, for the sake of your physical and mental health

when you add up the hours we actually do including contact, prep, correcting, voluntary and new compulsory cp/hr stuff and then divide that by your annual salary to calculate your hourly rate see how wonderful a 'profession/job" it is

cut out anything that isn't an absolute requirement as there is no respect given for generosity of time or being givish and everything appears to be take take take………this might be the only way we have left as a group to demonstrate some backbone to preserve some standards while keeping pay-packets coming in the door so mortgages etc can be paid…... but it takes solidarity across the board and I'm afraid that many simply don't realise whats at stake not just in the long term any more but in the medium term (5-10yrs imo)

Id be of an opinion if we are going to be treated as skivvies (no consultation etc) then lets take a page from increasing numbers of difficult unmanageable students books in our classrooms and sit back and make our betters specify every last thing we have to do in excruciating detail in our contracts so the actual hours we have to be put in can be quantified and we can use that as a stick to beat them with in future negotiations…..they weren't happy when we were willing to go out of our way to make it work……..now were "professionals" with autonomy being removed at every turn so I say give all of the autonomy away work exactly to contract and see how the system which shows every sign of following down the road of a UK model which imo has failed handles that…..not well I would suspect…….and all because R Quinn wants to save money and make a name for himself….meanwhile probably diminishing the education that thousands of kids will receive from now until whatever disastrous changes he implements will no doubt have to be reversed.

(not to mention the often difficult/stressful nature of the contact hours and the increased renumeration which should be in place for that given that imo, its something you have to do for a couple of years under the conditions of wanting results in classes with difficult students not willing to raise a finger in terms of study/even effort to try and be halfway reasonable in a classroom and do even 50% of the work required to know what I mean )

Anyway I really believe if people pulled back on the freebies of any kind and stuck to contract it would bring a little give and take back into the situation as long as a united front was shown

A message to wannabe teachers - Stay away from teaching.

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