2014 NFL Draft

Chucky the tree · 23-02-2014 11:40pm

HigginsJ wrote: »

What did he post? Sub 4.4 I take it?

No, 4.51 actually. I had thought it was mid 4.4's though. But 4.51 is still a great time for him. Expect him to edge past Watkins as the #1 WR now.

Paully D · 23-02-2014 11:56pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No, 4.51 actually. I had thought it was mid 4.4's though. But 4.51 is still a great time for him. Expect him to edge past Watkins as the #1 WR now.

Not going to happen, in my opinion. Evans will be the second WR off the board but Watkins is the best receiver in this class.

Evans has destroyed the combine no doubt but I wouldn't put too much weight on that. It's not what teams will solely be making the evaluations from and Watkins tape is better while still posting very, very good numbers at the combine.

Watkins, Evans, Odell Beckham Jr. That's the top three WR's IMO, in that order. Lee and Cooks right up there too. It's such a deep WR class.

HigginsJ · 24-02-2014 12:03am

Paully D wrote: »

Not going to happen, in my opinion. Evans will be the second WR off the board but Watkins is the best receiver in this class.

Evans has destroyed the combine no doubt but I wouldn't put too much weight on that. It's not what teams will solely be making the evaluations from and Watkins tape is better while still posting very, very good numbers at the combine.

Watkins, Evans, Odell Beckham Jr. That's the top three WR's IMO, in that order. Lee and Cooks right up there too. It's such a deep WR class.

Yea no way that Watkins is not No. 1.

I read Beckham Jr. measured in quiet small. Could that impact him?

Also Kelvin Benjamin has tore up the combine as well. His sheer size will have him in 1st round consideration at this point I reckon.

Chucky the tree · 24-02-2014 12:13am

Paully D wrote: »

Not going to happen, in my opinion. Evans will be the second WR off the board but Watkins is the best receiver in this class.

Evans has destroyed the combine no doubt but I wouldn't put too much weight on that. It's not what teams will solely be making the evaluations from and Watkins tape is better while still posting very, very good numbers at the combine.

Watkins, Evans, Odell Beckham Jr. That's the top three WR's IMO, in that order. Lee and Cooks right up there too. It's such a deep WR class.

While Watkins tape is excellent, I don't think his style or his tape translates as well to the NFL as Evans. Watkins for me had a very disappointing combine.

Most of the tape I've seen has been Watkins being a YAC monster, great routes, hands, running ability and speed. His running ability and speed are what set him apart in college. Problem is the level of competition wasn't great, the problem also is that speed isn't as big of a difference maker in NFL as college.

Watkins 4.43 speed isn't amazing in NFL terms. His 34" for a guy who is only 6'0 is also very disappointing. He won't be out jumping defensive backs in the NFL.

Evans on the other hand has everything you look for in an elite NFL WR. Great size, good speed and great hands. His route running needs work though. But at his size he'll be a huge threat in the endzone which is really what teams covet so much in the NFL.

nerd69 · 24-02-2014 12:31am

If a guy produces he produces jerry rice was not the quickest nor the biggest he turned out ok. Evens is now the clear number 2 as the quietion was around his speed but Watkins outplayed him the combine shouldn't change that

Paully D · 24-02-2014 12:40am

HigginsJ wrote: »

Yea no way that Watkins is not No. 1.

I read Beckham Jr. measured in quiet small. Could that impact him?

Also Kelvin Benjamin has tore up the combine as well. His sheer size will have him in 1st round consideration at this point I reckon.

I don't think his height will have too much impact. He's very athletic and seems to just have natural pass catching hands. On his tape he wins a lot of contested balls in the air, he plays a lot bigger than 5-11. The below video shows some good examples of it. I know it's only one game, but that sort of play is scattered throughout his tape:

Beckham's a nailed on first rounder at this point and could well be looking at going in the top half of the first round now I think.

On Benjamin, I just don't really rate him as highly as a lot of people. Maybe I'm missing something, but he just doesn't jump out for me. Sure, he's huge and physically dominating, but I find him a bit stiff and I also see a lot of extremely makeable catches being dropped when I watch his tape. There's some examples below. Can he consistently make the easy catches? That would be a worry. Interestingly that he's compared a lot in style to Evans, but he's almost three years older than Evans and less impressive IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3llpin2PFv4

Chucky the tree · 24-02-2014 12:52am

nerd69 wrote: »

If a guy produces he produces jerry rice was not the quickest nor the biggest he turned out ok. Evens is now the clear number 2 as the quietion was around his speed but Watkins outplayed him the combine shouldn't change that

Huh? Lots of guys have produced in college and not done it in the NFL so I'm don't really understand the "if a guy produces" argument.

nerd69 · 24-02-2014 1:58am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Huh? Lots of guys have produced in college and not done it in the NFL so I'm don't really understand the "if a guy produces" argument.

Ya as opposed to guys who have good combines they always pan out do they? College play will always be the most accurate way to gauge a draft pick

Chucky the tree · 24-02-2014 2:26am

nerd69 wrote: »

Ya as opposed to guys who have good combines they always pan out do they? College play will always be the most accurate way to gauge a draft pick

Actually judging a players skills and ability is the most accurate way,

nerd69 · 24-02-2014 2:36am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Actually judging a players skills and ability is the most accurate way,

And you see there skills and ability during the college season

Chucky the tree · 24-02-2014 3:21am

nerd69 wrote: »

And you see there skills and ability during the college season

But their production in college is irrelevant.

nerd69 · 24-02-2014 3:34am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

But their production in college is irrelevant.

what i don't understand what your saying. there skills and ability and production in college are directly related.

and in the original post your disgarding watkins college tape because he could be quicker and hes a bit slow

mikemac1 · 24-02-2014 10:41am

Every year Steve Marucci interviews QB's and gets them to remember and draw up plays on the white board.

Bortles was very impressive at this and in his interview imo

Chucky the tree · 24-02-2014 10:48am

nerd69 wrote: »

what i don't understand what your saying. there skills and ability and production in college are directly related.

and in the original post your disgarding watkins college tape because he could be quicker and hes a bit slow

But they're necessarily related to NFL production. Just ask Tebow. It's all well and good producing in college against poor competition, but it's much different to do it in the NFL.

I'm not disregarding it, I'm just putting less emphasis on it.

Putin · 24-02-2014 2:18pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Actually judging a players skills and ability is the most accurate way,

And how do you do that? Yes that's right by watching their college tape. I mean what else do you have to go on. So how can you put less emphasis on it? There is nothing else to help you assess a player's potential.

Chucky the tree · 24-02-2014 2:34pm

Putin wrote: »

And how do you do that? Yes that's right by watching their college tape. I mean what else do you have to go on. So how can you put less emphasis on it? There is nothing else to help you assess a player's potential.

But you don't look at their production. I also put less emphasis on players college production because the competition they have in college is generally terrible. For example Tebow looking amazing in college doesn't make a difference to me. The stats he puts up are irrelevant.

edit: Looking back should have worded post 400 better. It it's a one vs the other, than college tape is better. But it's not. Both need to be used, and if you use both then Watkins poor showing at the combine is a worry.

UnitedIrishman · 24-02-2014 3:32pm

Eh.. Clowney just ran a 4.47.

That is nuts.

Alfred Borden · 24-02-2014 4:25pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Eh.. Clowney just ran a 4.47.

That is nuts.

Best player in this draft. Do Texans take him and dominate upfront with Watt and try get a QB in the second round?

SimmerDean · 24-02-2014 4:38pm

got to have serious questions about Clowney. Not taking part in field drills. Just doing 40, broad and vertical jumps. Says he has sore hip flexor. Coaches don't want to see that

HigginsJ · 24-02-2014 4:44pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Eh.. Clowney just ran a 4.47.

That is nuts.

That really us staggeringly quick for 6ft 5 266lb man. Put it in context 6ft 5 245lb Cam Newton ran 4.56

Knex* · 24-02-2014 5:05pm

Would that type of speed open him up towards a 3-4 defence, rather than solely being seen as an edge rusher on a 4-3?

Haven't followed college football, or researched a whole pile on the draft as of yet, but think I read before that he wants to be in a 4-3 team.

Still, that speed and mobility for a guy of his size is outrageous. Really hope he has his head right as he could be an awesome player to watch for many a year.

TO. · 24-02-2014 7:06pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Eh.. Clowney just ran a 4.47.

That is nuts.

His official time is down at 4.53.

His off season workout to become a 3-4 edge rusher seems to have paid off for the most part when it comes to his speed.

His bench press reps were bad though only 21. Not a necessary skill for an edge rusher but even still 21 reps is bad for someone his size.

mikemac1 · 24-02-2014 7:33pm

The analysts on NFL Network gave him a pass by saying his arms are longer then most others in his position group. It's the players with short arms that beat the rest of their position group

I don't know if that's valid or not but it gets said every year

DDC1990 · 24-02-2014 8:19pm

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Jeff-Janis?id=2543750

I'm keeping my eye on this guy.

A guy who played DII football, who appears to have all the measurables to be a really good receiver.

6'3 219 and runs a 4.42.

Fastest White Guy in the Combine :P

Masked Man · 24-02-2014 8:25pm

Yeah noticed him as well. Him and Connor Shaw are the random people I'm gonna root for now. Along with the guy that 4.26.

nerd69 · 24-02-2014 9:15pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

The analysts on NFL Network gave him a pass by saying his arms are longer then most others in his position group. It's the players with short arms that beat the rest of their position group

I don't know if that's valid or not but it gets said every year

its true your pushing the bar farther so it makes sense that you wouldnt do as well and clowney has looooooong arms

terrifying to think what this guy could do as a predator in the 4-3 under

one thing to consider with him is as dee ford alluded to his techniques not ideal as hes always been abel to just bully guys but that can be trained if he has the work ethic

mikemac1 · 24-02-2014 9:22pm

Dee Ford has confidence to burn and is not afraid to sell himself at every opportunity.

I've seen him widely mocked to the Saints at 27 as they had a salary cap purge on their D but he may go higher and may well end up a star

HigginsJ · 24-02-2014 9:26pm

I see Michael Sam had a pretty poor day. Slow 40 time 4.91 & near the bottom of the DL groups in bench press & vertical leap. A lot of doubt about his ability to move to LB.

An undersized 4-3 end with poor measurables & lacking movement skills to move to OLB. He def will be going in the 4th round at best at this point.

Silver-Tiger · 24-02-2014 9:29pm

HigginsJ wrote: »

I see Michael Sam had a pretty poor day. Slow 40 time 4.91 & near the bottom of the DL groups in bench press & vertical leap. A lot of doubt about his ability to move to LB.

An undersized 4-3 end with poor measurables & lacking movement skills to move to OLB. He def will be going in the 4th round at best at this point.

I still think he will go undrafted and there will be a big **** storm.
Some hero team will give him a shot in a training camp and cut him.

nerd69 · 24-02-2014 9:29pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

Dee Ford has the confidence to burn and is not afraid to sell himself at every opportunity.

I've seen him widely mocked to the Saints at 27 as they had a salary cap purge on their D but he may go higher and may well end up a star.

i think hell be a great player fantastic pass rusher only issue is he's a bit of an pin your ears back player so wouldn't initially be a great run defender but i think its something he can improve. i think teams will love him saying this stuff shows desire to be the best.

2014 NFL Draft

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