Castleknock in receivership now

Oilbeefhooked! · 07-02-2014 10:06AM

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I think if they were both stand alone buisness's they would have been fine, in fact quite succesful. The issue was that they were not stand alone businesses, they are part of bigger groups and it is the parent groups that failed.

J

Exactly right, Castleknock Golf club and restaurant is,was, and will continue to be a very profitable business.
The unfortunate problem was it was being used to prop up 8 other stuggling Monarch businesses.

who_ru · 07-02-2014 02:20PM

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

Exactly right, Castleknock Golf club and restaurant is,was, and will continue to be a very profitable business.
The unfortunate problem was it was being used to prop up 8 other stuggling Monarch businesses.

Didn't the course itself make successive losses over the last 3 or 4 years at least?

FixdePitchmark · 07-02-2014 02:38PM

who_ru wrote: »

Didn't the course itself make successive losses over the last 3 or 4 years at least?

Also ?
Is Castleknock golf course paying back the development cost of the course ?

Oilbeefhooked! · 07-02-2014 02:59PM

who_ru wrote: »

Didn't the course itself make successive losses over the last 3 or 4 years at least?[/QUOTE

As previously said, profits from the GolfClub/Restaurant were being used to prop up 8 other companies - not going to comment on exact details on here , but it will be evident when it now begins to trade and prosper as its own entity that it is for sure a profitable business.

Russman · 07-02-2014 05:13PM

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

who_ru wrote: »

Didn't the course itself make successive losses over the last 3 or 4 years at least?[/QUOTE

As previously said, profits from the GolfClub/Restaurant were being used to prop up 8 other companies - not going to comment on exact details on here , but it will be evident when it now begins to trade and prosper as its own entity that it is for sure a profitable business.

While wishing them all the best and hoping they turn the corner for the members' sakes, I'd have reservations about that (certainly if the course standards and playing time for members are to be maintained).

Golfgraffix · 07-02-2014 06:10PM

I think they are close to 40,000 rounds a year which makes them one of the bussiest courses in the country. I would have very little doubt that it would be profitable.

J

Russman · 07-02-2014 07:00PM

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I think they are close to 40,000 rounds a year which makes them one of the bussiest courses in the country. I would have very little doubt that it would be profitable.

J

Yes, but how many of those rounds are paying rounds ? Asking as I don't know.

I think it was mentioned that there are 27 staff in the golf club, that must equate to somewhere in the region of c€750k in payroll costs alone.

I don't know what membership costs, but at, say, €1,500 you'd need 500 members just to pay the wages. Maintenance of the course to its usual high standard would surely come in at a couple of hundred thousand at least.

I'm not privy to the actual numbers, but I'm struggling to see how it can be profitable in its current guise. If the shortfall is made up from societies and green fees, how does that impact on members' times and would there need to be a reduction in slots ?

As I say, I've no real knowledge of the workings of the club or even how many members there are, but at face value/curiosity value its not stacking up for me.

who_ru · 07-02-2014 08:43PM

Russman wrote: »

Yes, but how many of those rounds are paying rounds ? Asking as I don't know.

I think it was mentioned that there are 27 staff in the golf club, that must equate to somewhere in the region of c€750k in payroll costs alone.

I don't know what membership costs, but at, say, €1,500 you'd need 500 members just to pay the wages. Maintenance of the course to its usual high standard would surely come in at a couple of hundred thousand at least.

I'm not privy to the actual numbers, but I'm struggling to see how it can be profitable in its current guise. If the shortfall is made up from societies and green fees, how does that impact on members' times and would there need to be a reduction in slots ?

As I say, I've no real knowledge of the workings of the club or even how many members there are, but at face value/curiosity value its not stacking up for me.

they tend to pour societies through the place, the tee is often blocked booked for a couple of hours. Needs must i suppose on that score.

it would seem that the place will be maintained to it's current standard for 2014 but after that who knows.

in terms of members it was said at the meeting if i remember correctly they have 459 5 day members paying 600 euro each - 459x600=275400

i think 66 unlimited members paying 1750 a year (66x1750=115500) and approx 170 '7 day' members paying 1450 a year (170x1450=246500).

income from members then 275400 + 115500 + 246500 = 637400.

Add in societies, green fees, bar & restaurant, pro shop, income could be 700,000 - 750,000 give or take.

but we don't know what the costs are both staff and course maintenance. I know that the general manager has been let go, maybe other staff will too over time. But unless income increases quickly, costs will have to come down.

Luttrellstown and the Hermitage are within a stones throw of the place, both quality courses also competing for societies and members. But Castleknock has been proactive with their 5 day offer.

Tee times could be scarce this year if they become even more pro active in attracting societies, more members but that's what it is going to take.

who_ru · 22-02-2014 06:37PM

Castleknock require 80% of members whose fees are due in first 6 months of the year to renew their membership before Feb 28th to avoid closure. Last update I got less than half have done so.

1 week to go and not looking good. People do not like handing over money to receivers with a long line of creditors behind them, regardless of assurances.

I am a 5 day member there and won't be overjoyed at having to find a new club, but it would seem that not enough people are prepared to renew their membership.

Oilbeefhooked! · 22-02-2014 07:05PM

who_ru wrote: »

Castleknock require 80% of members whose fees are due in first 6 months of the year to renew their membership before Feb 28th to avoid closure. Last update I got less than half have done so.

1 week to go and not looking good. People do not like handing over money to receivers with a long line of creditors behind them, regardless of assurances.

I am a 5 day member there and won't be overjoyed at having to find a new club, but it would seem that not enough people are prepared to renew their membership.

I wouldn't panic just yet, a lot of people were waiting to hear re. Access Agreement and green staff assurances.
I understand the memberships are now being renewed at a good steady rate , so hopefully those numbers will be well up by Friday .
Can't see why anyone wouldn't rejoin personally ? Superb course guaranteed to be kept to same very high standard for 2014, only 550 euro for 5 day for rest of 2014 and the guaranteed assurance that if things were to go wrong , full refund of card balances guaranteed before end of March!
Any existing members who would like to see their club continue, have a risk free no brainer decision to make IMO.

First Up · 22-02-2014 07:23PM

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

I wouldn't panic just yet, a lot of people were waiting to hear re. Access Agreement and green staff assurances.
I understand the memberships are now being renewed at a good steady rate , so hopefully those numbers will be well up by Friday .
Can't see why anyone wouldn't rejoin personally ? Superb course guaranteed to be kept to same very high standard for 2014, only 550 euro for 5 day for rest of 2014 and the guaranteed assurance that if things were to go wrong , full refund of card balances guaranteed before end of March!
Any existing members who would like to see their club continue, have a risk free no brainer decision to make IMO.

Really hope it works out. It would be a shame to lose it. I'm not in the market for membership but I play it 4-5 times a year and always enjoy it. Sounds one of the better membership deals on offer.

who_ru · 22-02-2014 08:20PM

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

I wouldn't panic just yet, a lot of people were waiting to hear re. Access Agreement and green staff assurances.
I understand the memberships are now being renewed at a good steady rate , so hopefully those numbers will be well up by Friday .
Can't see why anyone wouldn't rejoin personally ? Superb course guaranteed to be kept to same very high standard for 2014, only 550 euro for 5 day for rest of 2014 and the guaranteed assurance that if things were to go wrong , full refund of card balances guaranteed before end of March!
Any existing members who would like to see their club continue, have a risk free no brainer decision to make IMO.

i thought they'd have close to the target already as the access agreement etc was sorted over a week ago - i'll ring on weds or thurs next week and ask again.

Russman · 22-02-2014 08:24PM

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

I wouldn't panic just yet, a lot of people were waiting to hear re. Access Agreement and green staff assurances.
I understand the memberships are now being renewed at a good steady rate , so hopefully those numbers will be well up by Friday .
Can't see why anyone wouldn't rejoin personally ? Superb course guaranteed to be kept to same very high standard for 2014, only 550 euro for 5 day for rest of 2014 and the guaranteed assurance that if things were to go wrong , full refund of card balances guaranteed before end of March!
Any existing members who would like to see their club continue, have a risk free no brainer decision to make IMO.

What does this mean ? (genuine question)

Could there be a fear that if things did go wrong, any refunds etc might not be forthcoming in reality ?

Oilbeefhooked! · 22-02-2014 08:43PM

Russman wrote: »

What does this mean ? (genuine question)

Could there be a fear that if things did go wrong, any refunds etc might not be forthcoming in reality ?

It simply means that the receivers gave a no risk guarantee to any existing/ new members paying a joining fee post 23rd January.
By assuring full card balances to these members would be refunded in full ,in the event of the club closing.
This is obviously to try and keep the existing membership base and attract new members .
It was brought up at the EGM , when, if the worst happened. Would such a refund would be honoured ? therefore the receivers have since given a refund guarantee date of 31 st of march to allay any fears of a long drawn affair. Simples

Russman · 22-02-2014 08:49PM

Thanks, I just didn't understand what card balances meant. Still don't, but hey. Assume it's membership subs you've paid ?

Oilbeefhooked! · 22-02-2014 08:54PM

Russman wrote: »

Thanks, I just didn't understand what card balances meant. Still don't, but hey. Assume it's membership subs you've paid ?

Just means some of the memberships work on a credit system whereas every time you play your card balance reduces therefore
Card balances at such time would be honoured in full and not the full membership amount paid , which is fair enough I'd say.

Cecco70 · 22-02-2014 09:41PM

I just joined a week ago and I was told I would get a full refund in case of the club closing down. I was over there on Wednesday to see if my application had been processed and to pick up my membership card and was told it wasn't yet because of a backlog. So hopefully that means they have a good few new applications in, unless the backlog they are referring to is the two week free trial period applications.

pcasso · 22-02-2014 10:52PM

Cecco70 wrote: »

I just joined a week ago and I was told I would get a full refund in case of the club closing down. I was over there on Wednesday to see if my application had been processed and to pick up my membership card and was told it wasn't yet because of a backlog. So hopefully that means they have a good few new applications in, unless the backlog they are referring to is the two week free trial period applications.

I joined during last week as well and was told the exact same thing regarding a full refund of any credit left in my account.
It was €500 to join for the remaining ten months of 2014 with €20 extra for my GUI membership

First Up · 22-02-2014 11:07PM

Well done you folk for backing the club. Great to see members rallying round - so many clubs have to put up with people more intent on squeezing every last cent out of "their" club than putting anything back in.

Cecco70 · 22-02-2014 11:32PM

pcasso wrote: »

I joined during last week as well and was told the exact same thing regarding a full refund of any credit left in my account.
It was €500 to join for the remaining ten months of 2014 with €20 extra for my GUI membership

I paid the full €600 plus €20 GUI, and €20 Insurance. I didn't mind since its a credit system so I'll use it up one way or another:)

Btw, did you get your membership card yet?

pcasso · 23-02-2014 12:52AM

Cecco70 wrote: »

I paid the full €600 plus €20 GUI, and €20 Insurance. I didn't mind since its a credit system so I'll use it up one way or another:)

Btw, did you get your membership card yet?

I was only up last Thursday so not expecting anything for at least a week. I was able to print off my handicap certificate there and then so hopefully that speeds up the process. I will let you know when it comes through

nuts86 · 23-02-2014 01:18PM

Cecco70 wrote: »

I paid the full €600 plus €20 GUI, and €20 Insurance. I didn't mind since its a credit system so I'll use it up one way or another:)

Btw, did you get your membership card yet?

Is this the 5 day memmbership??

Oilbeefhooked! · 23-02-2014 01:54PM

Cecco70 wrote: »

I paid the full €600 plus €20 GUI, and €20 Insurance. I didn't mind since its a credit system so I'll use it up one way or another:)

Btw, did you get your membership card yet?

You need to bring that up at the pro shop next time your in mate, as you should only have paid 550e plus gui and ins, up to 31st dec 2014 for the 5 day membership !!

who_ru · 23-02-2014 02:09PM

Cecco70 wrote: »

I just joined a week ago and I was told I would get a full refund in case of the club closing down. I was over there on Wednesday to see if my application had been processed and to pick up my membership card and was told it wasn't yet because of a backlog. So hopefully that means they have a good few new applications in, unless the backlog they are referring to is the two week free trial period applications.

So a backlog of new members or applicants, yet a high percentage of current members yet to renew. Seems strange.

Is the guarantee on refunds in writing?

Russman · 23-02-2014 02:20PM

who_ru wrote: »

So a backlog of new members or applicants, yet a high percentage of current members yet to renew. Seems strange.

Is the guarantee on refunds in writing?

I'd be interested to see what mechanism the receivers have come up with to ring fence membership subs and put potential refunds to members ahead of other preferential creditors.
Are the subs regarded as not actually being owned by the club and only drawn down from a bank account on a week on week basis or something ? That's a total guess, I'd love to know how members are put to the head of the queue.

Cecco70 · 23-02-2014 05:09PM

who_ru wrote: »

So a backlog of new members or applicants, yet a high percentage of current members yet to renew. Seems strange.

Is the guarantee on refunds in writing?

I'm not sure what the backlog is and there's no guarantee in writing either so I guess there's no real guarantee but when worse comes to worse I'll just walk into the pro shop and pickup €600 euro worth of clubs and balls.

Oilbeefhooked! · 23-02-2014 06:30PM

Cecco70 wrote: »

I'm not sure what the backlog is and there's no guarantee in writing either so I guess there's no real guarantee but when worse comes to worse I'll just walk into the pro shop and pickup €600 euro worth of clubs and balls.

An email was recieved by all members stating that in the event of the club closing, that all balances (at such a time) of new memberships and renewals made post 23rd January (receivership date) would be honored by the receivers.
Not saying that this email would be legally binding but it does mean the promise is in writing and hundreds of members have a copy of it.

Milkers · 24-02-2014 11:17AM

Cecco70 wrote: »

I'm not sure what the backlog is and there's no guarantee in writing either so I guess there's no real guarantee but when worse comes to worse I'll just walk into the pro shop and pickup €600 euro worth of clubs and balls.

I'm sure noone else will think of that.

Seve OB · 24-02-2014 01:08PM

I heard a rumour that card credit can no longer be used in the bar and restaurant. can anyone confirm if this is true?

TBH, i was waiting for longer evenings to come in before I joined up, but if i can't use the credit in the restaurant, it will probably be a deal breaker.

pcasso · 24-02-2014 03:51PM

stevieob wrote: »

I heard a rumour that card credit can no longer be used in the bar and restaurant. can anyone confirm if this is true?

TBH, i was waiting for longer evenings to come in before I joined up, but if i can't use the credit in the restaurant, it will probably be a deal breaker.

I was told otherwise last week and the website still advertises that credit can be spent in the bar and restaurant

Castleknock in receivership now

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