Are we a nation of hypocrites?

jank · 22-02-2014 03:33PM #1

Have raised this topic on the Australia forum but want to get the general opinion of the AH crew.

There is a case at the moment in Australia where a young man from Cork is being detained and in the process of being deported back to Ireland for over staying his visa. The Irish Echo, an Irish-Australian publication has taken up the cause with a front page spread asking for public support for the cause. He says he does not want to be spilt up from his family. He is with an Australian partner and has a child with her. It is a plea to the emotions where it can be summed up that the child needs a father and in fact has a right to a father.

http://www.irishecho.com.au/2014/02/20/new-irish-echo-print-edition-out-today/30730

https://www.facebook.com/Irishechoaustralia

So far so good. However on closer reading of the actual case this young man was convicted for assault back in 2004 and was sentenced to 4 years in jail. The assault took place in 2002 and left a young Limerick man permanently and severely brain damaged whole will have to spend the rest of his life in a nursing home.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/pair-jailed-for-cowardly-attack-that-left-gifted-student-with-brain-damage-25913057.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/proud-smiles-hide-family-tragedy-at-sons-graduation-241240.html

OK, that complicates things a bit. It is unclear wether this man lied on his initial visa application for a WHV. If one has a substantial criminal conviction then a visa is usually denied. How was he there in the first place?

He says he has learned from his past but even in the past number of years he has appeared in court for being over the limit and driving an unlicensed car. Seems the law and rules don't really apply to him

The thing though is that the amount of support on Facebook at least that his cause seems to get, never mind the fact the largest Irish publication in the southern hemisphere deems it right to show their support for this while on one hand denounce violence on Australian streets as they have done previously.

The key question so is this. Are we a nation of hypocrypts? If this was a Polish guy in Ireland would the Irish Indo run a similar story for a plea of clemency? Would the same people who are supporting this mans cause support the Polish or Latvian guy? The guy is from Cork, one of our own so we give him a free pass because 'sure god love him and his kid'? Yet the same people would be frothing at the mouth if they found out a foreign guy moved in next to them that was convicted of a crime elsewhere. Are people really that stupid?! Does the fact that the guy is Irish mean that we always back them no matter what the facts are?

clairefontaine · 22-02-2014 03:39PM

Why doesn't he have a spousal visa if he is with an Australian?

Children do not have rights to fathers. That is an utterly ridiculous claim and the Irish in Australia are making boobs of themselves if this is the path they are taking.

He has gotten himself and his child into a situation now where he will be deported and the best he can hope for is a trans-continental custody order.

F****** moron.

Sir Arthur Daley · 22-02-2014 03:40PM

Australia is a big reality check from rural Ireland.

biko · 22-02-2014 03:40PM

Toss the fecker out.
Australia for Australians!

Tilly · 22-02-2014 03:44PM

They're supporting his fight to stay cause they don't want the thug back here

crockholm · 22-02-2014 03:46PM

If he doesn't have the proper paperwork,send him back.He can re-apply back in Ireland,we should not be supporting his illegal stance.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 22-02-2014 03:51PM

I thought having a criminal conviction was requirement for emigrating to Australia, or have they dropped that now?:D

Seriously, they should deport as soon as possible.

Femme_Fatale · 22-02-2014 03:51PM

It's just people being dopes on Facebook in relation to "one of their own". It is not an exclusively Irish thing.

I remember the case of that poor young fella from Limerick. Awfully sad case.

osarusan · 22-02-2014 03:54PM

Never heard of the guy until this thread, or seen any support of any kind for him on facebook or elsewhere.

Maybe he just wants to get Australia to pay for his ticket home.

The Backwards Man · 22-02-2014 03:56PM

If every nation's government policies were judged on Facebook campaigns the world would be a very scary place.

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-02-2014 03:59PM

No, it doesn't infer that the rest of us are hypocrites when it comes to immigration. It doesn't say anything about an entire population.

Yes he should be granted permanent residence, the child has a right to a father. Child has done nothing wrong. Rightly or wrongly, if you knock a girl up in a country you have business with the other partner and the coming child and should be allowed to stay. Unfortunately women have a penchant for scumbag.

He is indeed a scumbag. If he has jail time waiting for him, ship him back here to serve it before returning.

Also papers that preach to their own choir, for all different groups, are trash that should have to be marked as 'may contain propaganda and self serving whinging'. I'd guess the mentioned paper is one of these.

Saggyjocks · 22-02-2014 04:01PM

I would imagine a lot of the people that are signing this petition and showing support for him that don't know him personally are not aware of his criminal past. They must only see a man being taken away from his family and the lives of him and his child being torn apart. These people who are taking his story at face value i wouldnt call them hypocrites they just dont know the whole story, ignorance is bliss

He should not have been allowed enter the country in the first place. it's disgusting that hes asking for the support of people through the media and making his plea so publicly

gugleguy · 22-02-2014 04:05PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If every nation's government policies were judged on Facebook campaigns the world would be a very scary place.

I'm not on Facebook. Am I deficient here? NO NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST.

jank · 22-02-2014 04:07PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Yes he should be granted permanent residence,

Really? He entered the country illegally it seems by falsifying official immigration papers.

osarusan · 22-02-2014 04:09PM

From that facebook page:

other poster: Lot of Irish think they have any right to stay here no matter what! Well there are fcuking laws mate! But I can see the next "like this page if u want him stay in oz"

the poor craytur/scumbag in question: Ya and australia immigration r breaching UN laws and human right laws to u muppet. U just wish u were irish. we prob built ur country as well as this country and half the world at that

jank · 22-02-2014 04:10PM

Saggyjocks wrote: »

He should not have been allowed enter the country in the first place. it's disgusting that hes asking for the support of people through the media and making his plea so publicly

I wonder why the Irish echo carried the plea in the first place. It is a bit of a rag, maybe they were paid. Would not surprise me.

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-02-2014 04:10PM

jank wrote: »

Really? He entered the country illegally it seems by falsifying official immigration papers.

And if the mother dies or cant support herself.
Rent-a-dad ??

Meangadh · 22-02-2014 04:10PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Unfortunately women have a penchant for scumbag.

?

Femme_Fatale · 22-02-2014 04:11PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

No, it doesn't infer that the rest of us are hypocrites when it comes to immigration. It doesn't say anything about an entire population.

Yes he should be granted permanent residence, the child has a right to a father. Child has done nothing wrong. Rightly or wrongly, if you knock a girl up in a country you have business with the other partner and the coming child and should be allowed to stay.

Fully agreed.

Unfortunately women have a penchant for scumbag.

This story does not infer anything about an entire population, but this case means you can say women have a penchant for a scumbag. Love it.

Silly, insecure women go for sh1tty guys, or get fooled by them; silly, insecure men go for sh1tty girls, or get fooled by them.

Also papers that preach to their own choir, for all different groups, are trash that should have to be marked as 'may contain propaganda and self serving whinging'. I'd guess the mentioned paper is one of these.

Agreed.

jank · 22-02-2014 04:25PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

And if the mother dies or cant support herself.
Rent-a-dad ??

Well perhaps the Dad of her other kid could step in. I think the point is lost that he should not have been even there in the first place. They could of course try and set up a life in the EU. Actions, consequences and all that.

Sir Arthur Daley · 22-02-2014 04:30PM

osarusan wrote: »

Maybe he just wants to get Australia to pay for his ticket home.

A Ryanair flight cant be that expensive can it?

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-02-2014 04:39PM

jank wrote: »

Well perhaps the Dad of her other kid could step in. I think the point is lost that he should not have been even there in the first place. They could of course try and set up a life in the EU. Actions, consequences and all that.

Heres a spare dad, we didn't have the first model but this one should be fine.

And what of a case where theres no spare dad.
Yes he shouldn't have been there. Hows that going to help the child and mother.

Action - remove father from country.
Consequence - child has no contact with one of his parents, mother dependent on third party who may not be too eager to raise a kid thats not his own.

shruikan2553 · 22-02-2014 04:40PM

He cant be that concerned about his child having a father around if he would risk being deported by breaking the law.

crockholm · 22-02-2014 04:45PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Heres a spare dad, we didn't have the first model but this one should be fine.

And what of a case where theres no spare dad.
Yes he shouldn't have been there. Hows that going to help the child and mother.

Action - remove father from country.
Consequence - child has no contact with one of his parents, mother dependent on third party who may not be too eager to raise a kid thats not his own.

Solution-knock up some bogan,get to remain in the country. A win -win for scumbags.

jimmurt · 22-02-2014 04:53PM

osarusan wrote: »

From that facebook page:

other poster: Lot of Irish think they have any right to stay here no matter what! Well there are fcuking laws mate! But I can see the next "like this page if u want him stay in oz"

the poor craytur/scumbag in question: Ya and australia immigration r breaching UN laws and human right laws to u muppet. U just wish u were irish. we prob built ur country as well as this country and half the world at that

That's embarassing

jank · 22-02-2014 04:59PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Heres a spare dad, we didn't have the first model but this one should be fine.

And what of a case where theres no spare dad.
Yes he shouldn't have been there. Hows that going to help the child and mother.

Action - remove father from country.
Consequence - child has no contact with one of his parents, mother dependent on third party who may not be too eager to raise a kid thats not his own.

They aren't even married and the guy was up for common assault in a court against the mother already… a great dad to have around you think?

This whole 'breaking up families' is a ploy. Ireland had to pass a referendum to stop a similar loop hole being exploited. The law there for a reason. He forged documents to get into a country, shacks up with someone, has a kid and then its all OK so? Sorry but that is not how it works.

The rules state that if you over stay a visa then you are bared from Australia for 3 years anyway. As you said yourself this should happen. He can then of course apply for a legal visa from Ireland in three years time. Nothing legally stopping them from being a family in Ireland from what I gather only that it is not convienient.

jank · 22-02-2014 05:01PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

He cant be that concerned about his child having a father around if he would risk being deported by breaking the law.

But that would take foresight and one to take responsibility for their actions in totality, something totally missing here. It is always someone else fault aint it.

clairefontaine · 22-02-2014 05:02PM

jank wrote: »

But that would take foresight and one to take responsibility for their actions in totality, something totally missing here. It is always someone else fault aint it.

I think that Irish go abroad and think they carry Irish flexi law with them and then get a very cold shower when they are abroad.

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-02-2014 05:04PM

crockholm wrote: »

Solution-knock up some bogan,get to remain in the country. A win -win for scumbags.

Deprive kids of fathers Vs Allow citizenship for anyone who can reproduce on schedule.

Thats the crux of the issue.

But are you going to be the one to tell a kid he won't be seeing his dad again.

MS.ing · 22-02-2014 05:08PM

australia is no place for convicts.

oh wait.

Eutow · 22-02-2014 05:10PM

He should be deported back to Ireland. He broke the law by not only over staying his visa, but by declaring false information on his original visa application. Tough sh*t.

Are we a nation of hypocrites?

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