Nissan leaf breakdown

mmitche · 19-02-2014 5:17pm #1

Hi all
My newly acquired 2011 nissan leaf has broken down. The battery went from a charge of 36miles to 0 overnight and it went into auto-shutdown mode.
It's was taken away by nissan a week and a half ago. They're waiting for feedback from nissan Europe on the error codes for the past several days but nothing yet.....
I'm told that only 1 battery has developed a fault across Europe so far. I hope I'm not number 2.....

noelf · 19-02-2014 7:06pm

Google electric car bricking ...???

19-02-2014 8:56pm

MadLad et al will be here as soon as they find a quick charge point!

:pac:

Sitec · 19-02-2014 9:12pm

Disconnect the negative terminal on the twelve volt battery for 10 mins and the car will reset itself.

unkel · 19-02-2014 9:55pm

Sitec wrote: »

Disconnect the negative terminal on the twelve volt battery for 10 mins and the car will reset itself.

Surely Nissan would have tried that in the 10 days they've had the car?

Sesshoumaru · 19-02-2014 10:45pm

mmitche wrote: »

Hi all
My newly acquired 2011 nissan leaf has broken down. The battery went from a charge of 36miles to 0 overnight and it went into auto-shutdown mode.
It's was taken away by nissan a week and a half ago. They're waiting for feedback from nissan Europe on the error codes for the past several days but nothing yet.....
I'm told that only 1 battery has developed a fault across Europe so far. I hope I'm not number 2.....

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I know of one other 2011 Leaf that had similar symptoms to yours. It didn't really go empty over night, just disabled itself to protect itself from damage. One battery module in the 48 module battery pack was found to have been faulty and all was good once that module had been replaced. That particular case took a little while to resolve for the owner as well as it was escalated back to Japan and engineers from Japan were called in to investigate. Hope it gets sorted for you soon!

lomb · 19-02-2014 10:52pm

How much would this all cost out of warranty?

colm_mcm · 19-02-2014 10:57pm

lomb wrote: »

How much would this all cost out of warranty?

There's no charge.....

Sesshoumaru · 19-02-2014 10:57pm

lomb wrote: »

How much would this all cost out of warranty?

1 billion euro

lomb · 19-02-2014 11:11pm

I think the car could well be written off in the future. Give me an IC car any day of the week. Parts, service, and general knowledge available from numerous sources.

Sesshoumaru · 19-02-2014 11:20pm

lomb wrote: »

I think the car could well be written off in the future. Give me an IC car any day of the week. Parts, service, and general knowledge available from numerous sources.

I haven't checked the forecast yet, but I reckon it could rain tomorrow.

unkel · 19-02-2014 11:28pm

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

One battery module in the 48 module battery pack was found to have been faulty and all was good once that module had been replaced. That particular case took a little while to resolve for the owner as well as it was escalated back to Japan and engineers from Japan were called in to investigate.

You'd have thought it'd be easy to diagnose a single faulty battery module? It makes no sense that it required an engineer from Japan to fly in to come to that conclusion.

mmitche · 19-02-2014 11:31pm

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I haven't checked the forecast yet, but I reckon it could rain tomorrow.

I hope not. I'm back on my bike until Nissan resolve this.
Hopefully, they'll give me an update soon.....

mmitche · 19-02-2014 11:51pm

Sitec wrote: »

Disconnect the negative terminal on the twelve volt battery for 10 mins and the car will reset itself.

Thanks for the info Sitec!
I'll try suggesting this to the Nissan people tomorrow,.....

unkel · 20-02-2014 12:32am

mmitche wrote: »

I hope not. I'm back on my bike until Nissan resolve this.
Hopefully, they'll give me an update soon.....

You are joking, I hope? You got no courtesy car? Not even an electric bike?

The Dagda · 20-02-2014 12:36am

mmitche wrote: »

Thanks for the info Sitec!
I'll try suggesting this to the Nissan people tomorrow,.....

If that doesn't work, tell them to try switching it off and back on again...

anthony4335 · 20-02-2014 12:39am

Ctrl + ALT + DELETE

mmitche · 20-02-2014 12:51am

unkel wrote: »

You are joking, I hope? You got no courtesy car? Not even an electric bike?

Not joking! I asked for a courtesy car and was told that there were none available. Out of exasperation after 10 days with no info I rang nissan European warranty today who said that they didn't need to provide car as they transported the faulty nissan leaf to the nissan centre..,,

I must admit, I expected a replacement car ......

SleeperService · 20-02-2014 12:53am

unkel wrote: »

You'd have thought it'd be easy to diagnose a single faulty battery module? It makes no sense that it required an engineer from Japan to fly in to come to that conclusion.

Genuine quality/reliability issues get escalated big time in automotive electronics. Drop everything and figure this thing out NOW! The whys and hows of that failure might be worth an engineer on a plane versus a battery on a ship.

unkel · 20-02-2014 2:06am

mmitche wrote: »

Not joking! I asked for a courtesy car and was told that there were none available. Out of exasperation after 10 days with no info I rang nissan European warranty today who said that they didn't need to provide car as they transported the faulty nissan leaf to the nissan centre..,,

I must admit, I expected a replacement car ......

That's terrible customer service. Shame on Nissan. Perhaps Nissan Ireland would care to come on here and explain? Given the realities of popular social media, we all know Nissan Ireland are aware of this thread.

steveone · 20-02-2014 2:56am

The forklift centre do electric Nissans

kdouglas · 20-02-2014 9:52am

I'm very surprised Nissan haven't supplied a courtesy car. I've a 2011 Leaf myself and if it went in for a warranty issue I wouldn't be leaving without a courtesy car.

In my own experience I have had an issue once where I turned on the car and the display read --- even though I knew I had plenty of charge.

My theory is that something went wrong in the startup sequence in that case and the relay to the main battery didn't engage. Turning it off, wait a few seconds and turning it back on again (ironically) did work in that case but I presume if nissan have had it for a few days they've at least tried turning it on again.

Anan1 · 20-02-2014 10:02am

mmitche wrote: »

Not joking! I asked for a courtesy car and was told that there were none available. Out of exasperation after 10 days with no info I rang nissan European warranty today who said that they didn't need to provide car as they transported the faulty nissan leaf to the nissan centre..,,

I must admit, I expected a replacement car ......

They'd have rented one for you if you'd pushed. I'd be on to them right now if it were me. Unless it's out of warranty?

Tzardine · 20-02-2014 10:25am

Not getting a replacement car is bad form. Must say I am surprised, especially given how long it has been with them.

Ring them back and tell them that you are going to talk to Jo Duffy

20-02-2014 10:32am

Sorry for your troubles OP, maybe that is the reason it was sold in the first place ? maybe the previous owner knew something and flogged it ?

I must admit myself that this being Ireland I wouldn't expect much from any dealer that's half assed qualified on a car like the Leaf. I'd expect the same service from VAG. O'l Ireland will never change, half assed jobs are the norm and accepted.

It's not rocket science to diagnose a failed series group of cells, It's not a difficult task but I doubt the technicians are trained and will probably have to go through a video conference with the Japs or technicians in the U.S who actually know what they're doing.

The most difficult job will be dropping the battery and making sure they go through the safety check list before working on 400 volt battery !

This failure is rare and unfortunate it had to happen to you so soon. But on the Plus side. You just might, and I do stress might get a brand new battery out of it. Push them on it and see what they say !

I'd imaging Nissan are not so happy you didn't buy the car from them and had the cheek to go to the U.K !

BTW how many miles are on it ?

kdouglas · 20-02-2014 10:38am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd imaging Nissan are not so happy you didn't buy the car from them and had the cheek to go to the U.K !

Europe wide warranty

20-02-2014 10:40am

kdouglas wrote: »

Europe wide warranty

Yes Europe wide warranty so ?

kdouglas · 20-02-2014 10:54am

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes Europe wide warranty so ?

So it doesn't matter if it was a UK Import...

Mick55 · 20-02-2014 10:57am

Deleted User wrote: »

I must admit myself that this being Ireland I wouldn't expect much from any dealer that's half assed qualified on a car like the Leaf.

I doubt the technicians are trained

I worked as a Nissan mechanic for years coming up to the time when the Leaf was released, I worked with a large nationwide Nissan chain. It is company policy that anyone working on the Leaf must be certified, two technicians from my garage ( Most dealerships sent two technicians ) were sent to France for a week long intensive training course. They were tested on material and only when they passed this were they issued a cert to work on the Leaf.

The simple concept of testing a battery cell is simple yes but these cars are quite complex. They utilize CAN systems, body control modules and other components that can drain the battery and give conflicting faults.

I disagree with your statement 'I doubt the technicians are trained', the guys I worked with were very skilled mechanics, and I found from liaising with other garages in our network so were most of the rest.

20-02-2014 11:07am

OP, when I read about your trip back to Ireland from UK the distance per charge seemed really low. Maybe the two issues are related?

positron · 20-02-2014 11:42am

unkel wrote: »

That's terrible customer service. Shame on Nissan. Perhaps Nissan Ireland would care to come on here and explain? Given the realities of popular social media, we all know Nissan Ireland are aware of this thread.

+1. mmitche's experience that he shares in places like this and other social media could totally undo millions worth of publicity campaigns for Nissan.

mmitche · 20-02-2014 11:44am

samih wrote: »

OP, when I read about your trip back to Ireland from UK the distance per charge seemed really low. Maybe the two issues are related?

I suspect that you're spot on with your observation. The car didn't achieve the range expected during the trip. It has 30000 miles on the clock but can still charge to 97%.
I've been ringing the nissan garage daily and am getting a little concerned...
They do have an ev qualified technician there, who has had to complete several courses to achieve the certification. I suspect that this is a rare problem and there may be safety concerns if the battery really discharged the 36miles overnight.
I'd prefer to wait for a safe solution to this issue, but this long wait with no info is getting to me....
I work in a large tech company with 1000+ employees and I'm getting a bit of a slagging ...

Mick55 · 20-02-2014 12:11pm

mmitche wrote: »

I suspect that you're spot on with your observation. The car didn't achieve the range expected during the trip. It has 30000 miles on the clock but can still charge to 97%.
I've been ringing the nissan garage daily and am getting a little concerned...
They do have an ev qualified technician there, who has had to complete several courses to achieve the certification. I suspect that this is a rare problem and there may be safety concerns if the battery really discharged the 36miles overnight.
I'd prefer to wait for a safe solution to this issue, but this long wait with no info is getting to me....
I work in a large tech company with 1000+ employees and I'm getting a bit of a slagging ...

Hi there, first of all OP I sympathize with your situation. Sounds massively frustrating, especially given the hostile weather of late! I think there are two sides to this. The customer service side and the technical side.

From a customer service end it sounds like you've been treated very poorly, I'm very surprised they didn't offer you a courtesy car or make any attempt to accommodate you.

From a technical point of view, there are diagnostic procedures to be followed when diagnosing these kind of problems. I'd imagine by this stage they would have them completed and most likely they don't have an answer! They could be trying any number of alternatives at the moment like remote diagnostics with Nissan Europe or alternative diagnostic procedures proposed by Nissan or... repeatedly turning it off and on!

20-02-2014 12:15pm

kdouglas wrote: »

So it doesn't matter if it was a UK Import...

Never said it matters, there have often being cased where dealers would not honour warranties from imports, as they don't have to.

20-02-2014 12:26pm

Mick55 wrote: »

I worked as a Nissan mechanic for years coming up to the time when the Leaf was released, I worked with a large nationwide Nissan chain. It is company policy that anyone working on the Leaf must be certified, two technicians from my garage ( Most dealerships sent two technicians ) were sent to France for a week long intensive training course. They were tested on material and only when they passed this were they issued a cert to work on the Leaf.

The simple concept of testing a battery cell is simple yes but these cars are quite complex. They utilize CAN systems, body control modules and other components that can drain the battery and give conflicting faults.

I disagree with your statement 'I doubt the technicians are trained', the guys I worked with were very skilled mechanics, and I found from liaising with other garages in our network so were most of the rest.

Well yes they are complicated cars, and yes the systems are complicated. But diagnosis shouldn't take over a week.

Being certified is one thing and having the experience is another.

There have been a shortage of parts available which probably is the biggest issue.

Afaik a loan car is part of Nissan's warranty ? I'd be hammering them for a loan car !

20-02-2014 12:30pm

positron wrote: »

+1. mmitche's experience that he shares in places like this and other social media could totally undo millions worth of publicity campaigns for Nissan.

Nonsense, while the OP maybe being treated poorly, this is nothing new or that has not happened before with dealers.

The Leaf failed, but the Leaf is mainly a very reliable car and battery related issues are extremely rare.

positron · 20-02-2014 12:38pm

It's my personal opinion really. I have been following Leaf thru your posts and other early adopters here, and was always considering it as an option. I have never even seen a Leaf up close, and all my opinions so far is based on experiences posted here and other online reviews. And a situation like mmitche's - Leaf developing fault is fine, that happens with cars, but Nissan putting unreasonably poor conditions around it (an official dealer not giving standby car while fixing a car under warranty) reflects really poor - and I personally now feel that electric cars are still a good idea but Nissan sounds like a bad company to deal with. No amount of fancy advertertisement from Nissan could change my perspective that I form by reading owner stores in places like this. That's just me, but then again I don't think I am special or different in anyway, so I guess that would be case for a lot of others too.

20-02-2014 12:39pm

mmitche wrote: »

I suspect that you're spot on with your observation. The car didn't achieve the range expected during the trip. It has 30000 miles on the clock but can still charge to 97%.
I've been ringing the nissan garage daily and am getting a little concerned...
They do have an ev qualified technician there, who has had to complete several courses to achieve the certification. I suspect that this is a rare problem and there may be safety concerns if the battery really discharged the 36miles overnight.
I'd prefer to wait for a safe solution to this issue, but this long wait with no info is getting to me....
I work in a large tech company with 1000+ employees and I'm getting a bit of a slagging ...

This is good information and will be useful to Leaf owners who may experience the problem in the future.

This is a rare problem and no matter how qualified the technician on paper he/she needs to experience real problems to become good at their job.

They will repair it but what they are doing is their best to get out of installing a brand new battery but there should be spares in the U.K if they need one. Hopefully you will be lucky enough to get a brand new battery !

I am sure they know what the problem is but the problem I would say more than anything is the availability of parts.

Just go into the garage and ask to speak to the manager of the service department and calmly appreciate the time they are spending on it and you'd appreciate any information at all.

I doubt they don't know what the problem is by now.

Thoie · 20-02-2014 12:40pm

mmitche wrote: »

Not joking! I asked for a courtesy car and was told that there were none available. Out of exasperation after 10 days with no info I rang nissan European warranty today who said that they didn't need to provide car as they transported the faulty nissan leaf to the nissan centre..,,

I must admit, I expected a replacement car ......

To echo what everyone else has said, that would really put me off them - if my car is under warranty, I'd expect a courtesy car of some kind from them, particularly if it's going to take more than a day. I don't have a bike, and my commute without a car would be either €70+ in taxis each day, or 4 hours of public transport (including over an hour of walking) - that's why I have a car. I'd be kicking up a huge fuss with Nissan Ireland.

Mick55 · 20-02-2014 12:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well yes they are complicated cars, and yes the systems are complicated. But diagnosis shouldn't take over a week.

Being certified is one thing and having the experience is another.

There have been a shortage of parts available which probably is the biggest issue.

Afaik a loan car is part of Nissan's warranty ? I'd be hammering them for a loan car !

I agree about the car and the customer service, very poor.

The guys can only have so much experience as the car was only available on the European market since early 2011??

What good is putting in a new battery if its a software or hardware problem?

20-02-2014 12:45pm

positron wrote: »

but Nissan sounds like a bad company to deal with. No amount of fancy advertertisement from Nissan could change my perspective that I form by reading owner stores in places like this. That's just me, but then again I don't think I am special or different in anyway, so I guess that would be case for a lot of others too.

Poor service isn't unique to Nissan for heavens sake, poor service from main dealers is rampant throughout Ireland, obviously there are very good ones too. But we let big businesses away with murder here.

Scottie99 · 20-02-2014 12:54pm

My experience with Nissan was a positive one. Our Leaf was due a service, because of work commitments I was unable to get the car serviced during the week. They suggested I bring the car in at the weekend and take away one of their cars for a few days.

positron · 20-02-2014 12:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Poor service isn't unique to Nissan for heavens sake, poor service from main dealers is rampant throughout Ireland, obviously there are very good ones too. But we let big businesses away with murder here.

I guess a bad experience with Leaf is more than a bad experience with say Fiesta because there are only a handful of Leafs and Leaf owners out there, unlike Fiestas. Multiply that by another random number as Leaf is based on an emerging technology. Anywhoo, it's my personal opinion, and it's not wise to expect everyone to agree to my own opinion, so lets just leave it at that.

Sesshoumaru · 20-02-2014 1:16pm

unkel wrote: »

You'd have thought it'd be easy to diagnose a single faulty battery module? It makes no sense that it required an engineer from Japan to fly in to come to that conclusion.

Correct. They wanted to know exactly why it went faulty. It seemed it was a really big deal to them. I think this was the one and only case of a module going bad in Europe. If I remember correctly it was eventually sent back to Japan for a deep dive investigation. There was a report at the end detailing their findings, it was reassuring to see they took it so seriously.

Sesshoumaru · 20-02-2014 1:18pm

mmitche wrote: »

I suspect that you're spot on with your observation. The car didn't achieve the range expected during the trip. It has 30000 miles on the clock but can still charge to 97%.
I've been ringing the nissan garage daily and am getting a little concerned...
They do have an ev qualified technician there, who has had to complete several courses to achieve the certification. I suspect that this is a rare problem and there may be safety concerns if the battery really discharged the 36miles overnight.
I'd prefer to wait for a safe solution to this issue, but this long wait with no info is getting to me....
I work in a large tech company with 1000+ employees and I'm getting a bit of a slagging ...

Have you joined the 'Irish EV Owners' group on Facebook yet? We have 156 members now. I'd post your story there and perhaps some fellow Leaf owners can help you apply some peer pressure to Nissan Ireland (or the specific dealer?). Just an idea! If it was a dealer I know someone in, I'd certainly make a phone call or send an email for you!

SleeperService · 20-02-2014 1:23pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Disciplines_Problem_Solving or similar process. Aimed seshmarous story about previous leaf investigation.

20-02-2014 1:35pm

SleeperService wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Disciplines_Problem_Solving or similar process.

LOL that's (so) American !

20-02-2014 1:38pm

In the U.S there have been issues with heaters on the MK I which took several weeks to rectify due to the lack of availability of parts.

SO I'm still convinced that the issue is more to do with the lack of available spares. Diagnosis doesn't take over a week and also due to lack of technician experience. This isn't running down the technicians but you do need practical experience you can only learn so much on any course.

Sesshoumaru · 20-02-2014 1:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In the U.S there have been issues with heaters on the MK I which took several weeks to rectify due to the lack of availability of parts.

SO I'm still convinced that the issue is more to do with the lack of available spares. Diagnosis doesn't take over a week and also due to lack of technician experience. This isn't running down the technicians but you do need practical experience you can only learn so much on any course.

This was posted up in Irish EV Owners a few weeks ago.

http://www.torquenews.com/1080/nissan-leafs-achilles-heel-exposed

With all of that, the Nissan LEAF is still the most dominant BEV both globally and in the U.S. But it still has one big Achilles Heel it must overcome.
Nope, it's not range anxiety, battery issues, or styling. It's not price or efficiency either. It's not even lack of infrastructure.
Nope, it's problem is parts availability.
You see, the LEAF has now been on the market for three years. Owners who originally leased the car in 2010/11 are now beginning to trade them in for new models, but some are abandoning the car because of this issue. In trolling forums, I've seen countless complaints about how long a car can sit and wait for the simplest of parts from Nissan. Why?

Because for all their production capacity, Nissan still cannot keep up with demand and has thus allocated nearly all of the parts being built for the LEAF to go into new cars, not dealer inventories for replacements.
This means that even the slightest ding or wreck can mean weeks, even months waiting for replacement parts. One Nissan LEAF owner recently posted in a forum about her accident and the FOUR MONTHS of wait just to get a simple wiring harness replacement for the charge port that had been crushed. Another had three months of repairs, most of which was waiting for body panels after a stop light run-in. Yet another owner had two months of waiting for a door panel replacement for a broken side mirror from an errant bicyclist.
- See more at: http://www.torquenews.com/1080/nissan-leafs-achilles-heel-exposed#sthash.Iw8H0Gg5.dpuf

I'm not sure how relevant it is to the European market. But it might be a factor in the long wait the op is having (doesn't excuse lack of courtesy car though!). Our Leaf had a minor incident when the passenger side mirror got swiped off, we were told a new replacement mirror would take a couple of days. In the OPs case it might be waiting for a new battery module?

20-02-2014 1:53pm

Might not be the battery, some BMS related issue either, The factory is close in the U.K but all those parts are for the MK 1.5 as all the MK I were made in Japan. Same with the U.S factory, it makes the Mk 1.5.

In some cases a failed BMS can kill the battery, time will tell.

I would loved to have plugged in the leaf Spy dongle to see what it would have shown, might be a very useful tool for any future 2nd hand Leaf buyers !

I do hope the OP gets a good technical explanation to share with us and for other forums. A good print out of parts too on the receipt.

SleeperService · 20-02-2014 2:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

LOL that's (so) American !

may you never know the hassle of being involved in an automotive 8D! Far from LOL!

Nissan leaf breakdown

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