Render Finish for New build

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 03:27PM #1

Stonework has started on my new build and I'm looking ahead to finishing the rest of the house with a suitable render (I'm only putting stone at the front).

Can anyone please help me choose a suitable render? Here's the 3 realistic options I can see with some questions:

1. Sand/Cement Finish
Relatively cheap?
Will last years without the need to paint?
Looks ok with stonework to the front?

2. Dry Dash
Never needs painting?
Looks ok with stonework to the front?

3. Wet Dash
Never needs painting but can be at any time?
Looks ok with stonework to the front?

Thanks!

sydthebeat · 18-02-2014 03:30PM

monocouche render all the way

edit: im sure your planning conditions will have an impact into this choice.
what was called up as external finish on your planning drawings?

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 03:40PM

The planning doc just says "external rendering system".

Why monocouche? Is this not a lot more expensive than standard dry/dash finishes? I'd like to keep to something traditional looking.

sydthebeat · 18-02-2014 04:23PM

It is more expensive yes, but in my experience its a better finish due to quality of finish, continuity of colour, speed of installation and non maintenance going forward.

There are a good selection of colours to choose from to provide a tradition look.

In my own opinion, dry dash shouldnt be considered at all. its not tradition, its an urban finish and would look crap with that random rubble stone.

Wet dash needs a lot of maintenance over time, can get dirty and can be a bitch to clean..... also generally never seen in conjunction with stone finishes.

Sand and cement would be the obvious choice, but include for painting over the lifespan of the build. Also, ive seen some disastrous external finishing due to walls being half done, then continued a few days later, differential drying occurs and cracking can be extensive. Make sure your plasters are well established and educated.

but i have to ask again, what do the planning drawings AND conditions say?
It would be highly unusual for no external finish to be called up on the elevations, and it would be unusual for there to be no restriction to elevational finishes in the planing conditions.

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 04:31PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

but i have to ask again, what do the planning drawings AND conditions say?
It would be highly unusual for no external finish to be called up on the elevations, and it would be unusual for there to be no restriction to elevational finishes in the planing conditions.

My mistake, too much rushing! The drawings say: "SMOOTH external rendering system".

huntsman77 · 18-02-2014 04:34PM

Napp all the way yea ya have to paint but ya can change around with colours if ya ever wanted to change the look .personally wouldn't put monocouche on a dog house pure Celtic tiger rubbish when a plasterer wanted to get in and out quick . does fade has tendency to go green or red seen places with moss growing on it very hard if ya ever have to patch in a bit compared to nap . nap is around a long time for good reason only my opinion of course

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 04:42PM

Napp is just a sand & cement smooth render? I think I know it - you would get away with a number of years before having to paint?

jpb14 · 18-02-2014 04:45PM

BarneyMc wrote: »

Stonework has started on my new build and I'm looking ahead to finishing the rest of the house with a suitable render (I'm only putting stone at the front).

Can anyone please help me choose a suitable render? Here's the 3 realistic options I can see with some questions:

1. Sand/Cement Finish
Relatively cheap?
Will last years without the need to paint?
Looks ok with stonework to the front?

2. Dry Dash
Never needs painting?
Looks ok with stonework to the front?

3. Wet Dash
Never needs painting but can be at any time?
Looks ok with stonework to the front?

Thanks!

Can I ask you what the mesh strips sticking out of the wall are for?
Are they for holding the stonework mortar or rendering up in place?
Honest question.:)

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 04:47PM

jpb14 wrote: »

Can I ask you what the mesh strips sticking out of the wall are for?
Are they for holding the stonework mortar or rendering up in place?
Honest question.:)

I believe they help tie the stonework to the main block wall.

Honest question, honest answer! :pac:

jpb14 · 18-02-2014 04:54PM

BarneyMc wrote: »

I believe they help tie the stonework to the main block wall.

Honest question, honest answer! :pac:

Thanks.looks very nice btw.:)

glashanator · 18-02-2014 05:16PM

Hello Barney,

You and myself seem to be roughly around the same stage of our builds.

I've just got the chimney plastered/rubbed up, so the roofers can finish slating. I went with a white Limestone sand finish, so I wouldn't have to get up and paint it.

Had only intended to do the chimney, but the more I see it the more I like it, and I think I'll finish the house in it.

The chimney is scudded and scratched in the normal way, with normal grey cement and normal building sand.

The finish is a mixture of white sand,lime and white cement and ends up looking an off white colour.

The cost wouldn't be that much more expensive than normal rubbed up grey sand and cement finish.And is definitely offset by not having to paint it for 5 years or so. Its much more robust than Monocouche.
And may have that traditional look you need for that building.

Only have chimney done but can take a photo of it if you wish to get look at it .

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 05:19PM

glashanator wrote: »

Hello Barney,

You and myself seem to be roughly around the same stage of our builds.

I've just got the chimney plastered/rubbed up, so the roofers can finish slating. I went with a white Limestone sand finish, so I wouldn't have to get up and paint it.

Had only intended to do the chimney, but the more I see it the more I like it, and I think I'll finish the house in it.

The chimney is scudded and scratched in the normal way, with normal grey cement and normal building sand.

The finish is a mixture of white sand,lime and white cement and ends up looking an off white colour.

The cost wouldn't be that much more expensive than normal rubbed up grey sand and cement finish.And is definitely offset by not having to paint it for 5 years or so. Its much more robust than Monocouche.
And may have that traditional look you need for that building.

Only have chimney done but can take a photo of it if you wish to get look at it .

Yes a photo would be great - look forward to seeing it

glashanator · 18-02-2014 05:42PM

Ok, it will be tomorrow by the time I get back to site, but i'll stick it straight up when I get there.

baby fish · 18-02-2014 08:45PM

I personally wouldn't touch the coloured stuff that comes in bag

Option 1, The grey sand and cement looks awful, However, Option 1 is the best in my opinion, if you change to white sand, white cement and lime as suggested above. I put this on my house!

What will this cost you?
When I was doing it, The white sand and cement is about double the price when compared to the normal grey cement and sand.
labour and lime remain the same price.

What will you get?
It will dry to an off white colour, I love it.
I will get away without painting this for years
Mine was finished using a sponge, so its fairly smooth - meaning when I do paint it will require less paint compared to a rougher finish

The only drawback ( and it doesn't bother me) is, it does turn more off white/discolour when it rains, but it will dry out to be its normal off white colour again when it stops raining

vertico · 18-02-2014 08:54PM

Can you take a few more pics of the dpc detail around the windows... Make sure it's done properly cause you don't want problems at a later date.

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 08:57PM

Thanks everyone for all your help. If anyone has photos they can post to show what they're describing that would be fantastic. The Glashanator has very kindly offered to show us his tomorrow!

sawdoubters · 18-02-2014 09:00PM

stucco that has paint in it

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/tint-stucco-29164.html

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 09:19PM

sawdoubters wrote: »

stucco that has paint in it

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/tint-stucco-29164.html

Thanks for this. It describes it as "Stucco is a combination of powdered limestone or cement, blended with sand and water until it reaches a mortar-like consistency."

So this is basically what others here have described as "Napp" and although the images on the above link should a very textured finish it can be smoothed as desired?

cork2013 · 18-02-2014 09:29PM

Went with white sand render and stone on our house,traditional look so maybe similar to your own. Hoping to get in soon,fingers crossed!

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 09:34PM

cork2013 wrote: »

Went with white sand render and stone on our house,traditional look so maybe similar to your own. Hoping to get in soon,fingers crossed!

That's beautiful! How smooth did you make it? If you have any close up photos that would be super. Thanks so much and good luck with the big move!

blacktea · 18-02-2014 10:19PM

jpb14 wrote: »

Can I ask you what the mesh strips sticking out of the wall are for?
Are they for holding the stonework mortar or rendering up in place?
Honest question.:)

barneymc, quick question, are those mesh strips for the stonework galvanised strips by any chance...

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 10:20PM

I'm really not sure blacktea.

glashanator · 18-02-2014 10:22PM

blacktea wrote: »

barneymc, quick question, are those mesh strips for the stonework galvanised strips by any chance...

Yes they're galvanised...I've used them as well.

blacktea · 18-02-2014 10:43PM

glashanator wrote: »

Yes they're galvanised...I've used them as well.

AFAIK mesh strips of any type are not recommended, i think the home bond manual recommends ss ties to secure stone.

The problem with mesh but particularly galvanised mesh is corrosion over time. When the strips are cut (assuming from a roll) the ends are then exposed and can corrode, over a long time mind you. Just something to bear in mind and look into maybe, particularly as stone is not all up as yet. I was working for a surveyor and he made a builder pull down all the cladding off a wall because it had galv mesh.

sorry to go off topic...

Slick50 · 18-02-2014 10:51PM

Hi BarneyMc, that's a very nice looking bit of stonework. If you are going to go for the nap finish, you could get away with using white cement and ordinary plastering sand, as opposed to white sand. White sand is a lot more expensive, and IMO gives a very bright white finish, were as plain sand gives a softer white finish. A good quantity of waterproofer through the render mix, should help it to keep it's colour, and avoid the need for painting for much longer. White sand and white cement could be used for the reveals, which would avoid painting for a long time.

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 10:58PM

Slick50 wrote: »

Hi BarneyMc, that's a very nice looking bit of stonework. If you are going to go for the nap finish, you could get away with using white cement and ordinary plastering sand, as opposed to white sand. White sand is a lot more expensive, and IMO gives a very bright white finish, were as plain sand gives a softer white finish. A good quantity of waterproofer through the render mix, should help it to keep it's colour, and avoid the need for painting for much longer. White sand and white cement could be used for the reveals, which would avoid painting for a long time.

Thanks Slick50, what do you mean by 'reveals'?

Slick50 · 18-02-2014 11:01PM

BarneyMc wrote: »

Thanks Slick50, what do you mean by 'reveals'?

The finish around the windows and doors,

BarneyMc · 18-02-2014 11:05PM

Slick50 wrote: »

The finish around the windows and doors,

Yes, sorry, it's been a long day!!!

cork2013 · 19-02-2014 12:19AM

This is as close up as I have! Reveals are finished also in traditional style with white sand plaster. Just noticed someone mentioning them in previous posts.

BryanF · 19-02-2014 10:13AM

cork2013 wrote: »

This is as close up as I have! Reveals are finished also in traditional style with white sand plaster. Just noticed someone mentioning them in previous posts.

thats some footpath you have there:D

glashanator · 19-02-2014 01:40PM

Hello Barney once again.

A couple of close up pics of chimney to give you an idea.

And the strip between the 2 roofs as well.

Sand cement was mixed at ratio 7/1 , sand/cement and a small amount of mortor mix. No water proofer or Lime was added in final coat, only in scratch coat.

Render Finish for New build

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