Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Pylons

1…4041434546…53

Comments

  • #1262
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Last time I checked Ireland is a separate country to the UK so house prices going up and down there has no bearing here. Can you link to actual reports from this country ?

    Same with questions about the continent France Germany so on are not Ireland. How about get some reports relating to This actual country ?

    Do we have to rehash the CO2 its been explained again and again that cheap coal in Germany and so on opening coal fired power plants they can run into the ground produces cheap power and lots of CO2. Can you get any reports relating to CO2 emissions wind farms and Ireland ?

    And I have every right to Question a Paid for report. The anti side is trying to use as much smoke and mirrors to muddy the water and draw attention away from actual facts. I think your the one that's not agreeing with anything that does not fit an agenda tbh


    Germany and other European countries like Spain are further down this road compared to Ireland and have run into mounting problems with regards to these issues. Your contention is that we ignore all this "cos were Ireland":rolleyes: - already there is similar emerging issues on the Irish Grid with the addition of ever increasing amount of wind as highlighted by earlier postings. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88936456&postcount=1177

    I suggest you also read other links in this thread in relation to emerging issues with house sales along the proposed pylon routes not to mention the growing number of examples like the Keane Family in Roscommon who had to leave their homes due to numerious ongoing issues with living in proximity to wind turbines etc.

    http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/news/roundup/articles/2013/09/06/4017485-couple-maintain-turbines-have-forced-them-to-move-house/


  • #1263
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    I do feel for people in this situation but the nocebo effect would explain most of this.


  • #1264
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    A couple of things. The property devalaution issue has already been clarified from studies in the the UK showing signficant propery devaluation associated with wind energy developments as linked to in this thread.

    Studies? There has only been one linked in this thread unless I missed the others. Also it was an article not the report.

    Also a study done in the US, that has been published, finding suggest that wind turbines do not have an impact on property prices.
    Here the report


  • #1265
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Studies? There has only been one linked in this thread unless I missed the others. Also it was an article not the report.

    Also a study done in the US, that has been published, finding suggest that wind turbines do not have an impact on property prices.
    Here the report

    Only 2% of the homesales looked at in that study were within one mile of a turbine so its relevance to Ireland or the UK where the official set-back limits are only 500metres is limited. In any case it did not look at the size of the Turbines which makes a big difference in this area since the Irish midlands are set to host some of the biggest turbines in the world. In the UK additional evidence suggests that wind turbines do indeed have a substantial negative effect on propery values with houses near to turbines dropping into lower council Tax bands

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177429/Wind-farms-DO-hit-house-prices-Government-agency-finally-admits-thousands-wiped-value-homes.html#ixzz29ffTJiJO

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3348084/Homeowners-living-near-windfarms-see-property-values-plummet.html

    In addition Denmark has had to substantially scale up payments to homeowners affected by wind turbine developments


  • #1266
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Only 2% of the homesales looked at in that study were within one mile of a turbine so its relevance to Ireland or the UK where the official set-back limits are only 500metres is limited. In any case it did not look at the size of the Turbines which makes a big difference in this area since the Irish midlands are set to host some of the biggest turbines in the world. In the UK additional evidence suggests that wind turbines do indeed have a substantial negative effect on propery values with houses near to turbines dropping into lower council Tax bands

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177429/Wind-farms-DO-hit-house-prices-Government-agency-finally-admits-thousands-wiped-value-homes.html#ixzz29ffTJiJO

    In addition Denmark has had to substantially scale up payments to homeowners affect by wind turbine developments

    All I see is estate agents saying the house price are going down, The would have no interest in keeping things artificially high would they. Don't they work on commission of the sale. And the daily mail ... their always correct and never ever try and scaremonger or anything like that do they, They are well know for their absolute factual reports.


  • Advertisement
  • #1267
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    All I see is estate agents saying the house price are going down, The would have no interest in keeping things artificially high would they. Don't they work on commission of the sale. And the daily mail ... their always correct and never ever try and scaremonger or anything like that do they, They are well know for their absolute factual reports.

    Estate agents have a vested interests in inflating house prices - not writing them down. In any case its the local council and government valuation agency that wrote down the prices of the properties on the basis of their closeness to wind turbines.


  • #1268
    Mullingar Sheila
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 ✭Mullingar Sheila


    Hi All,
    very new to this so bear with me. I would like to refer everyone to the Irish Academy of Engineers (www.iae.ie), this is what they say about themselves:

    The Irish Academy of Engineering is an all-Ireland body, concerned with long-term issues where the engineering profession can make a unique contribution to economic, social and technological development.
    Its members are Irish engineers of distinction, drawn from a wide range of disciplines and membership currently stands at approximately 145.
    Drawing on the experience and knowledge of its distinguished members, the Academy works to facilitate communication and dialogue on engineering-related matters. It publishes reports and analyses, some jointly with other learned and professional bodies.

    Please take some time to look at their reports on Energy Issues. It matters little whether the advice come from the IAE or elsewhere, read the IAE advice,which has been around for years, and make up your mind in an informed way. Thanks for listening.


  • #1269
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Estate agents have a vested interests in inflating house prices - not writing them down. In any case its the local council and government valuation agency that wrote down the prices of the properties on the basis of their closeness to wind turbines.

    Or depressed housing market in a Recession ? Remind me what happens to housing prices in a Recession ?


  • #1270
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Or depressed housing market in a Recession ? Remind me what happens to housing prices in a Recession ?

    House prices have been on the rise in the UK in the last few years and yet in these cases their value has still been marked down by the relevant government agencies due to their proximity to wind turbine developments.

    Quote from link "At least five homeowners have seen their properties officially downgraded by the VOA because of their proximity to windfarms."


  • #1271
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Only 2% of the homesales looked at in that study were within one mile of a turbine so its relevance to Ireland or the UK where the official set-back limits are only 500metres is limited. In any case it did not look at the size of the Turbines which makes a big difference in this area since the Irish midlands are set to host some of the biggest turbines in the world. In the UK additional evidence suggests that wind turbines do indeed have a substantial negative effect on propery values with houses near to turbines dropping into lower council Tax bands

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177429/Wind-farms-DO-hit-house-prices-Government-agency-finally-admits-thousands-wiped-value-homes.html#ixzz29ffTJiJO

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3348084/Homeowners-living-near-windfarms-see-property-values-plummet.html

    In addition Denmark has had to substantially scale up payments to homeowners affected by wind turbine developments

    Yet more articles, not a published report


  • Advertisement
  • #1272
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Mullingar Sheila wrote: »
    Hi All,
    very new to this so bear with me. I would like to refer everyone to the Irish Academy of Engineers (www.iae.ie), this is what they say about themselves:

    The Irish Academy of Engineering is an all-Ireland body, concerned with long-term issues where the engineering profession can make a unique contribution to economic, social and technological development.
    Its members are Irish engineers of distinction, drawn from a wide range of disciplines and membership currently stands at approximately 145.
    Drawing on the experience and knowledge of its distinguished members, the Academy works to facilitate communication and dialogue on engineering-related matters. It publishes reports and analyses, some jointly with other learned and professional bodies.

    Please take some time to look at their reports on Energy Issues. It matters little whether the advice come from the IAE or elsewhere, read the IAE advice,which has been around for years, and make up your mind in an informed way. Thanks for listening.

    Most of the Academy's reports on energy policy are drafted by Don Moore and Gerry Duggan - two men who are vehemently opposed to renewables (unless it suits them) and in favour of gas, gas and more natural gas.
    I wouldn't pay too much attention to what the Academy releases. Nobody else does.


  • #1273
    Mullingar Sheila
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 ✭Mullingar Sheila


    Hi Heroditas,
    exactly my point, no-one pays too much notice of them. Because they are pro Gas as you suggest???
    No-one should pay any notice to this new report, because they are 'foreign' authors regardless of any experience they may have.
    No-one should pay any notice to the 1994 ESBNG report that say no wind over 20% penetration on grid due to induced frequency instability.
    No-one should pay any notice of ESBNG who are supposed to operate with a Chinese wall between itself and the ESB and the only reason it was allow to exist was by EU decree because that the unions (5% owners) would not let it go to EirGrid.
    No-one should pat any notice of EirGrid because they are empire building and the state does not want unions to have 5% of the new empire and there is no need for it to exist as the second National Grid on the Island.
    No-one should pay any notice of the Irish and EU politicians that allowed this stupidity to happen in the first place.
    No-one should pay and notice to our energy costs soaring by 200-300% whilst France's stays static during the same time-frame.
    No-one should pay any attention to wind developers getting corporate tax relief on public subsidies and curtailments charges.

    no-one should bother asking the common sense question of, does this work, will it pay for itself, and who will pay for it. It there a more sustainable renewable way more suitable for Ireland, can we be shown the results of that study before we potentially waste billions.

    To my mind we all should pay a lot of attention to this. We learn by listening to all sides of a debate and adopting some basic common sense approaches.

    Many thanks for taking the time to listen to me ramble on.
    Sheila


  • #1274
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Mullingar Sheila wrote: »
    Hi Heroditas,
    exactly my point, no-one pays too much notice of them. Because they are pro Gas as you suggest???
    No-one should pay any notice to this new report, because they are 'foreign' authors regardless of any experience they may have.
    No-one should pay any notice to the 1994 ESBNG report that say no wind over 20% penetration on grid due to induced frequency instability.
    No-one should pay any notice of ESBNG who are supposed to operate with a Chinese wall between itself and the ESB and the only reason it was allow to exist was by EU decree because that the unions (5% owners) would not let it go to EirGrid.
    No-one should pat any notice of EirGrid because they are empire building and the state does not want unions to have 5% of the new empire and there is no need for it to exist as the second National Grid on the Island.
    No-one should pay any notice of the Irish and EU politicians that allowed this stupidity to happen in the first place.
    No-one should pay and notice to our energy costs soaring by 200-300% whilst France's stays static during the same time-frame.
    No-one should pay any attention to wind developers getting corporate tax relief on public subsidies and curtailments charges.

    no-one should bother asking the common sense question of, does this work, will it pay for itself, and who will pay for it. It there a more sustainable renewable way more suitable for Ireland, can we be shown the results of that study before we potentially waste billions.

    To my mind we all should pay a lot of attention to this. We learn by listening to all sides of a debate and adopting some basic common sense approaches.

    Many thanks for taking the time to listen to me ramble on.
    Sheila


    No, people do not listen to the aacademy because the Academy is driven by personal agendas by two people who can only be described as Luddites.

    You mention 20% renewables and how in 1994 it was reported that it should not exceed that due to grid instability. Well we can now accommodate over 40% of demand met by renewables and that will increase.

    Please outline the timeframe where you mention that Ireland's costs increase by 200/300% while France's remained the same.
    Ireland's electricity price is driven by the price of gas, not renewables.
    The majority of French electricity is generated using nuclear power. Fine, do you want nuclear power plants or a few extra pylons?

    The likes of Eirgrid, SEAI etc constantly publish reports outlining the benefits of renewables yet these reports are constantly shot down by the anti-renewable lobbies as being vested-interest-driven reports that should not be trusted.


    If you're actually interested in hearing quite a level-headed articulate debate concerning wind, listen to the podcast of today's lunchtime programme on Newstalk where Jonathan Healy talks to Brian Motherway of SEAI. It's actually a very good interview with nine of the usual vested interest nonsense surfacing.


  • #1275
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Heroditas wrote: »

    The likes of Eirgrid, SEAI etc constantly publish reports outlining the benefits of renewables yet these reports are constantly shot down by the anti-renewable lobbies as being vested-interest-driven reports that should not be trusted.


    If you're actually interested in hearing quite a level-headed articulate debate concerning wind, listen to the podcast of today's lunchtime programme on Newstalk where Jonathan Healy talks to Brian Motherway of SEAI. It's actually a very good interview with nine of the usual vested interest nonsense surfacing.

    I think people in glass houses should avoid throwing stones when it comes to whining about "vested interests" - its been widley reported in the media about SEI and the Bredan Halligan issue which I'm sure your aware of. I heard that interview on Newstalk and Motherway came across as rather vague and invasive when Healey put questions to him about some of SEI claims about the so-called benefits of wind power and Irelands energy needs.


  • #1276
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    I think people in glass houses should avoid throwing stones when it comes to whining about "vested interests" - its been widley reported in the media about SEI and the Bredan Halligan issue which I'm sure your aware of. I heard that interview on Newstalk and Motherway came across as rather vague and invasive when Healey put questions to him about some of SEI claims about the so-called benefits of wind power and Irelands energy needs.


    I've already addressed the SEAI/Halligan non-issue in this thread.
    What as vague about it? Most people wouldn't understand what he was talking about if he went into detail concerning how the wholesale price of electricity is determined, along with curtailment/constraint payments and capacity payments.
    Healy certainly wasn't interested. He was just looking for a soundbite


  • #1277
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Heroditas wrote: »
    I've already addressed the SEAI/Halligan non-issue in this thread.
    What as vague about it? Most people wouldn't understand what he was talking about if he went into detail concerning how the wholesale price of electricity is determined, along with curtailment/constraint payments and capacity payments.
    Healy certainly wasn't interested. He was just looking for a soundbite

    Very few impartial people would view the Halligan affair as a non-issue when it comes to the governments energy policy. As for sound-bytes the top prize would go to Motherwell with his "wind energy is free" nonsense:rolleyes:


  • #1278
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Mullingar Sheila wrote: »
    Hi Heroditas,
    exactly my point, no-one pays too much notice of them. Because they are pro Gas as you suggest???

    Would you pay notice of a report on vaccine by Jenny McCarthy?
    No-one should pay any notice to this new report, because they are 'foreign' authors regardless of any experience they may have.

    When you say foreign do you mean the authors or the report? There is no point trying to wedge in a energy report build for Italy into Ireland's energy system
    No-one should pay any notice to the 1994 ESBNG report that say no wind over 20% penetration on grid due to induced frequency instability.

    Well we're currently around 11% and the plans to improve the grid will allow for higher % of wind penetration as a effect.
    No-one should pay any notice of ESBNG who are supposed to operate with a Chinese wall between itself and the ESB and the only reason it was allow to exist was by EU decree because that the unions (5% owners) would not let it go to EirGrid.

    ESBNG and ESB are two separate companies.
    No-one should pat any notice of EirGrid because they are empire building and the state does not want unions to have 5% of the new empire and there is no need for it to exist as the second National Grid on the Island.

    Ireland only has one grid might what to brush up on what Erigrid do
    No-one should pay any notice of the Irish and EU politicians that allowed this stupidity to happen in the first place.

    So stupid allowing competition into the energy market, reducing the need for fossil fuel and increasing Ireland energy security. So stupid :rolleyes:
    No-one should pay and notice to our energy costs soaring by 200-300% whilst France's stays static during the same time-frame.

    What time frame is this? Also it should be noted that France gets most of its energy for nuclear which prices have stayed steady (apart from 2007) and has a higher energy density. Nuclear is also cheaper than gas for production of electricity.


  • #1279
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Very few impartial people would view the Halligan affair as a non-issue when it comes to the governments energy policy. As for sound-bytes the top prize would go to Motherwell with his "wind energy is free" nonsense:rolleyes:

    Do you have to pay for wind now? If that is the case I bet Ireland is going to be sh1tting itself for the amount of wind it used last week.


  • #1280
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Very few impartial people would view the Halligan affair as a non-issue when it comes to the governments energy policy.


    Yes but let's not let facts get in the way of conspiracy theories, eh?

    Declan Waugh is on SEAI's board. Should we assume SEAI have a vested interest in removing fluoride from water as a result of that?


  • #1281
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Do you have to pay for wind now? If that is the case I bet Ireland is going to be sh1tting itself for the amount of wind it used last week.

    Despite record amounts of wind on the grid recently energy prices are still going up as referred to earlier in the thread - riddle me that. Indeed statements like that suggest you know little or nothing about the difference between wholesale and retail power prices.


  • Advertisement
  • #1282
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Yes but let's not let facts get in the way of conspiracy theories, eh?

    Declan Waugh is on SEAI's board. Should we assume SEAI have a vested interest in removing fluoride from water as a result of that?

    Conspiracy theories?? - You may choose to ignore the Brendan Halligan issue but I think most impartial people would define the details in the link below as the very definition of a "conflict of interest"

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/whelan-warns-on-sustainable-energy-bosss-windfarm-conflict-of-interest-29365613.html


  • #1283
    Mullingar Sheila
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 ✭Mullingar Sheila


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mullingar Sheila View Post
    Hi Heroditas,
    exactly my point, no-one pays too much notice of them. Because they are pro Gas as you suggest???
    Would you pay notice of a report on vaccine by Jenny McCarthy?

    Apologies I'm not aware of Jenny McCarthy and Vaccine Report.

    Quote:
    No-one should pay any notice to this new report, because they are 'foreign' authors regardless of any experience they may have.
    When you say foreign do you mean the authors or the report? There is no point trying to wedge in a energy report build for Italy into Ireland's energy system.

    Authors.

    Quote:
    No-one should pay any notice to the 1994 ESBNG report that say no wind over 20% penetration on grid due to induced frequency instability.
    Well we're currently around 11% and the plans to improve the grid will allow for higher % of wind penetration as a effect.

    19.6% (normalised, latest SEAI report) at end 2012. Grid improvement will not allow a safe % increase of wind penetration due to frequency instability issues. Please investigate effects of frequency fluctuations and resultant blackouts.

    Quote:
    No-one should pay any notice of ESBNG who are supposed to operate with a Chinese wall between itself and the ESB and the only reason it was allow to exist was by EU decree because that the unions (5% owners) would not let it go to EirGrid.
    ESBNG and ESB are two separate companies.

    Correct, but operate as one. ESBNG assets were supposed to transfer to EirGrid. Q, who owns existing 1983 400kv transmission grid in Ireland between Moneypoint and Dunstown & Woodland, ESBNG or EirGrid? Q, who owns new East-West interconnector? who will own new north-south interconnector? who will own Gridlink infrastructure? 1 transmission grid, 2 transmission owners; Ce as Basil would say.


    Quote:
    No-one should pat any notice of EirGrid because they are empire building and the state does not want unions to have 5% of the new empire and there is no need for it to exist as the second National Grid on the Island.
    Ireland only has one grid might what to brush up on what Erigrid do

    Apologies, I should have clarified what I meant, hopefully my previous answer explains this better.

    Quote:
    No-one should pay any notice of the Irish and EU politicians that allowed this stupidity to happen in the first place.
    So stupid allowing competition into the energy market, reducing the need for fossil fuel and increasing Ireland energy security. So stupid

    Fair competition is good in my view. Wind increases the need for fossil fuels, what comes on when the wind doesn't blow. Remember the frequency instability issues wind power introduces once 20% penetration is achieved, it will never pay for itself. RE for RE's sake No, sustainable RE that is sustainable in country Yes i.e. a hydro power plant in Timbuktu is about as useful as a PV array in Tromso.

    Quote:
    No-one should pay and notice to our energy costs soaring by 200-300% whilst France's stays static during the same time-frame.
    What time frame is this? Also it should be noted that France gets most of its energy for nuclear which prices have stayed steady (apart from 2007) and has a higher energy density. Nuclear is also cheaper than gas for production of electricity.

    Time frame? Dig.
    France Nuclear yes, France fossil fuel 5%, Ireland Nuclear No, Ireland Fossil fuel 95%.
    Would I be pro Nuclear Plant in Ireland, No. Would I be pro 3 or 4 large interconnectors to Frances Nuclear Industry, Yes. Am I pro un-sustainable RE anywhere, No. If I can leave you with any thought it is this one, never use the term RE without putting the word 'sustainable' before it. I would not care if it is wind, hydro, solar etc as long as it is sustainable. Wind over 20% isn't - we can't alter physics in the same way I can't alter the fact that this glass of wine needs drinking now!

    Many thanks for listening, apologies for not being able to cut 'n quote to make my replies clearer.
    Good Night, Sheila.


  • #1284
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Despite record amounts of wind on the grid recently energy prices are still going up as referred to earlier in the thread - riddle me that. Indeed statements like that suggest you know little or nothing about the difference between wholesale and retail power prices.

    Wholesale price is going up due to gas prices. Simple as.
    It's the main driver for price increases. To argue otherwise is simply ridiculous.


  • #1285
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Despite record amounts of wind on the grid recently energy prices are still going up as referred to earlier in the thread - riddle me that. Indeed statements like that suggest you know little or nothing about the difference between wholesale and retail power prices.

    :rolleyes:
    The cost of fuel, i.e natural gas, are also going up. Companies require more income. Ireland is only a few years out of a monopoly. At the start new companies dropped prices to pull people away from ESB and ESB dropped down when they could. Now prices are beginning to rise to a sustainable level


  • #1286
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Sheila, sorry it's next to impossible to read that last post of yours.

    However, two bits I gleaned from it and have to contradict:

    1. The grid can currently accommodate up to 40% wind at the moment and that is going to be increased by implementation of the DS3 programme.

    2. Wind does not lead lead to an increase in fossil fuels here.
    You won't use more fuel to generate the same amount of electricity, particularly when using modern CCGT plant. That may happen if the generation fleet was a mix of open cycle pant and peaking plant with a wind element thrown in but no grid operator in their right mind would use a large mix of what is extremely inefficient in the first place, i.e. Open cycle plant.


  • #1287
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Wholesale price is going up due to gas prices. Simple as.
    It's the main driver for price increases. To argue otherwise is simply ridiculous.

    Not true either - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88936456&postcount=1177

    Reduced availability of relatively cheap and efficient power plants in January due to maintenance issues put upward pressure on wholesale electricity prices despite falling wholesale gas prices and near record volumes of electricity produced from wind turbines, according to the Bord Gais Energy Index.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/p...-29993939.html

    This piece from Scotland outlines other hidden costs of wind power on a grid

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10644895/Energy-bills-to-rise-to-help-Scottish-wind-farms-report-warns.html


  • #1288
    househero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭househero


    ah sourcing your information from a newspaper.

    The mark of a highly intelligent, well educated being.


  • #1289
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Mullingar Sheila wrote: »
    Apologies I'm not aware of Jenny McCarthy and Vaccine Report.


    19.6% (normalised, latest SEAI report) at end 2012. Grid improvement will not allow a safe % increase of wind penetration due to frequency instability issues. Please investigate effects of frequency fluctuations and resultant blackouts.

    Care to link to the report or give its name?

    Please read up on the improvement to the grid, one of the many reasons it to improve the stability of the grid allowing for more renewable to be used at the same time.
    Correct, but operate as one. ESBNG assets were supposed to transfer to EirGrid. Q, who owns existing 1983 400kv transmission grid in Ireland between Moneypoint and Dunstown & Woodland, ESBNG or EirGrid? Q, who owns new East-West interconnector? who will own new north-south interconnector? who will own Gridlink infrastructure? 1 transmission grid, 2 transmission owners; Ce as Basil would say.

    ESB distribution manges the distribution network
    Eirgrid manage the transmission network.

    While ESB own the current transmission network, Eirgrid control it. The new improvement to the grid and the new lines are still the same grid, not two different grids. No need to make up lies

    Why are you against improvement to our electricity supply BTW?
    Fair competition is good in my view. Wind increases the need for fossil fuels, what comes on when the wind doesn't blow. Remember the frequency instability issues wind power introduces once 20% penetration is achieved, it will never pay for itself. RE for RE's sake No, sustainable RE that is sustainable in country Yes i.e. a hydro power plant in Timbuktu is about as useful as a PV array in Tromso.

    Does wind increase the need for fossil fuels. You really just just said that, I.....I......Wow.
    Which uses more fuel on a 30 km trip?
    A standard car
    or the same car with battery that has a range of 20km.;)
    Time frame? Dig.
    France Nuclear yes, France fossil fuel 5%, Ireland Nuclear No, Ireland Fossil fuel 95%.
    What are you saying? :confused:
    Would I be pro Nuclear Plant in Ireland, No. Would I be pro 3 or 4 large interconnectors to Frances Nuclear Industry, Yes.
    What about energy security?
    Am I pro un-sustainable RE anywhere, No. If I can leave you with any thought it is this one, never use the term RE without putting the word 'sustainable' before it. I would not care if it is wind, hydro, solar etc as long as it is sustainable. Wind over 20% isn't - we can't alter physics in the same way

    I don't see what wrong with building wind farms in one of the windiest places in the world. We shouldn't Ireland actually have and use a decent source of domestic power. Why should we always be relying on other to help us out?
    What is this non-sourced 20% limit you speak of?
    I can't alter the fact that this glass of wine needs drinking now!
    That explains a lot


  • #1290
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,939 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Jester252 wrote: »


    So stupid allowing competition into the energy market, reducing the need for fossil fuel and increasing Ireland energy security. So stupid :rolleyes:



    .

    A little bit of history might help your apparent misunderstanding of these issues

    http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/cheaper-electricity-on-the-way-after-regulator-allows-esb-cuts-97356-Mar2011/

    Previously, the ESB had been forced to maintain a minimum price for its electricity as part of the commission’s scheme for encouraging open competition in the market, most obviously displayed through the entrance of Bord Gais Energy and Airtricity to the domestic market.

    ESB were actually forced to raise prices to accommodate competition. Another example of how clueless out current energy policies are


  • Advertisement
  • #1291
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    A little bit of history might help your apparent misunderstanding of these issues

    http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/cheaper-electricity-on-the-way-after-regulator-allows-esb-cuts-97356-Mar2011/

    Previously, the ESB had been forced to maintain a minimum price for its electricity as part of the commission’s scheme for encouraging open competition in the market, most obviously displayed through the entrance of Bord Gais Energy and Airtricity to the domestic market.

    ESB were actually forced to raise prices to accommodate competition. Another example of how clueless out current energy policies are


    Read the link FFS, hell even the bold part of your post.


Advertisement