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Am I just ignorant?

  • 15-02-2014 01:50PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭


    I've just had a discussion with my brother. In the recent stories of Michael Sam and Ellen Page I just thought to myself, why is such a big deal made of gay people coming out? I don't get it. Why are they seen as inspiration? It doesn't matter to me in the slightest what your orientation is so why make the "big announcement" and why all the fuss?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    Because homophobia is still rife worldwide.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Ellen Page is gay? Nooooooooooooooo!!!!















    Wait...who is Ellen Page?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    I see your point, but you could look on it as a celebration of the fact that being gay is no longer seen as career-ruining.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    stimpson wrote: »
    Wait...who is Ellen Page?

    A person who is gay.. apparently..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭MonstaMash


    Agreed, can't understand it either :confused:

    Throw a dinger of a party if you want to celebrate outing yourself...

    Party on peeps & more power to ye \m/


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭The Dagda


    One needs to know who one has a chance with.

    One can't be having laminated lists with ineligible people on it...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I suppose it still takes courage to come out, you never know who will turn their back on you.
    And US isn't like us, they are still quite backward when it comes to this stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Yes. Do a tiny bit of research about the issues gay people face in the world from being ostracized from friends, family, social circles and jobs in the most liberal societies. Being subject to violent brutal humiliation attacks in places like Russia, all the way to being put to death in backward hellholes in Africa and the middle east.

    Then ask why it's brave to face all that rather than live a lie.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭kjl


    stimpson wrote: »
    Ellen Page is gay?

    And here was me thinking it was she just had no chemistry with Micheal Cera.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭MonstaMash


    Yes. Do a tiny bit of research about the issues gay people face in the world from being ostracized from friends, family, social circles and jobs in the most liberal societies. Being subject to violent brutal humiliation attacks in places like Russia, all the way to being put to death in backward hellholes in Africa and the middle east.

    Then ask why it's brave to face all that rather than live a lie.
    Above all, be true to yourself & fook what other people think, I admire anyone with the courage to do so.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭Monkeybonkers


    biko wrote: »
    I suppose it still takes courage to come out, you never know who will turn their back on you.
    And US isn't like us, they are still quite backward when it comes to this stuff.


    Like us? I'd say we're quite backward ourselves when it comes to 'this stuff'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,728 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    Yes, by the sounds of it you are just ignorant; on this issue at least.

    You aren't the world; they didn't come out just to you, who doesn't care about sexual orientation but to everyone, which includes some pretty vile people who aren't okay with certain types of sexual orientation in the slightest, in fact they're virulently opposed to them. This is pretty well publicised and I can't believe you didn't know it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    evil_seed wrote: »
    It doesn't matter to me in the slightest what your orientation is so why make the "big announcement" and why all the fuss?

    Because the world doesn't revolve around you. There are other people in it too. Shock horror. And if it didn't matter to anyone at all then we wouldn't have to wait until 2014 for a (soon to be) NFL player who is openly gay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    Yes, by the sounds of it you are just ignorant; on this issue at least.

    You aren't the world; they didn't come out just to you, who doesn't care about sexual orientation but to everyone, which includes some pretty vile people who aren't okay with certain types of sexual orientation in the slightest, in fact they're virulently opposed to them. This is pretty well publicised and I can't believe you didn't know it.
    Because the world doesn't revolve around you. There are other people in it too. Shock horror. And if it didn't matter to anyone at all then we wouldn't have to wait until 2014 for a (soon to be) NFL player who is openly gay.

    Bit harsh to another poster. ..

    Do we have to "know" everything that publicised. I believe not.


    What's publicised? A document that enforces Gays to come out in public.. not just thats it, no difference from being straight?

    A TV documentary that forced the worlds population to watch this?


    Naive maybe but your post seems like thats attacking the OP in a general discussion that is just asking "why the big fuss"

    The world is indeed a bigger place but it doesn't mean to say everybody knows everybody's business.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,053 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    In light of what's been happening in Russia in the last year and all the homophobic nonsense we've gotten from Iona and their ilk here for example then you might be a little ignorant of why it's important for prominent people to come out like this, yes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,728 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    Nemeses wrote: »
    What's publicised? A document that enforces Gays to come out in public.. not just thats it, no difference from being straight?

    A TV documentary that forced the worlds population to watch this?

    I honestly have no idea what you're talking about here. But to answer what's publicised, the plight of homosexuals in seeking equal rights is well publicised.
    Naive maybe but your post seems like thats attacking the OP in a general discussion that is just asking "why the big fuss"

    The world is indeed a bigger place but it doesn't mean to say everybody knows everybody's business.

    And I am answering his question as to "why the big fuss". We don't have to know everything in the world no but there are certain salient facts of which if you're unaware then I consider you ignorant; that's the OP's word too, not mine. And as I said, ignorant on this issue, not necessarily everything else.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 925 ✭✭✭Plates


    evil_seed wrote: »
    I've just had a discussion with my brother. In the recent stories of Michael Sam and Ellen Page I just thought to myself, why is such a big deal made of gay people coming out? I don't get it. Why are they seen as inspiration? It doesn't matter to me in the slightest what your orientation is so why make the "big announcement" and why all the fuss?

    You asked if you were just ignorant. You've shown that you are. Job well done. Time to move on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,244 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    It's not just the USA or Russia, either. In the UK Football Premier League, there is not a single openly gay player.

    In some parts of the world, there's an emphasis on predefined roles for men and women. Men are masculine, women are feminine, and any subversion of those roles is perceived as a threat to "society" as well as the individual.

    But I'm still surprised at the low level of the debate in the USA. This is the country whose founders used phrases like "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". No conditions were attached. What part of that do they not understand?

    Government resting upon the will and universal suffrage of the people has no anchorage except in the people's intelligence.

    — Grover Cleveland



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭MonstaMash


    bnt wrote: »
    It's not just the USA or Russia, either. In the UK Football Premier League, there is not a single openly gay player.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2535805/Former-Aston-Villa-Everton-Germany-midfielder-Thomas-Hitzlsperger-reveals-gay.html

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25661228


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,053 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    The OP doesn't mean any badness in fairness.

    On the one hand, I see their point - why make an announcement and thus make a bit of a big deal out of it, when it's not a big deal? Especially in the society in which they live (not all of America is backwards; some of the west coast is more right-on than The Guardian HQ). It's their personal business and if they're going out with someone of the same sex, then that's evidence enough.

    But on the other hand, the bigger picture needs to be taken into account too - it might be ok in their societies, but it's not considered ok in so, so many other societies. They are public figures in sport and film so it's encouraging for those who are gay and look up to them. Plus, unfortunately not everyone in the more liberal societies will take it well - so it's a brave step no matter what.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    I'm the same OP.

    What is the big deal? How many openly gay entertainers are there? Lots and lots.

    It doesn't matter... why do it in this big way? Who cares like!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,387 ✭✭✭eisenberg1


    The Dagda wrote: »
    One needs to know who one has a chance with.

    One can't be having laminated lists with ineligible people on it...


    But does it not work both ways? Gay people have lists too:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Yes. Do a tiny bit of research about the issues gay people face in the world from being ostracized from friends, family, social circles and jobs in the most liberal societies. Being subject to violent brutal humiliation attacks in places like Russia, all the way to being put to death in backward hellholes in Africa and the middle east.

    Then ask why it's brave to face all that rather than live a lie.
    Maybe you should do some research on the pair of celebrities referenced in the OP and their chances of experiencing some of the scenarios you have outlined in their self obsessed little bubbles.

    They are hardly the 'heroes' you are trying to cast them as.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭Naydy


    I doubt that publicly coming out like this is aimed at the majority of people, it's to reach those isolated individuals who are struggling to come to terms with their own sexuality. I don't think any of us who are straight could ever fully understand how difficult this must be for some people.

    So for most of us it might seem like "who cares?" or we'll think "good for her" and have forgotten about it in a few days.

    But for a few it might give them the strength to come out themselves, or maybe even to feel like they are not that alone.

    Fair play to her, i'd say it took a lot of courage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,277 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    Nah your not ignorant OP soon as i seen it mentioned this morning on IMDB that she ''Came out'' first thing i taught was big ****ing deal sure anyone who knows anything about her or has ever seen her in any of her work would clearly know she was gay ffs.

    But ya we dont understand where all ignorant....... bla :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    evil_seed wrote: »
    I've just had a discussion with my brother. In the recent stories of Michael Sam and Ellen Page I just thought to myself, why is such a big deal made of gay people coming out? I don't get it. Why are they seen as inspiration? It doesn't matter to me in the slightest what your orientation is so why make the "big announcement" and why all the fuss?

    Let's ask Simon Cowell who just had a baby with his "partner"........


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    Ellen Page coming out is the same as Liberace coming out.

    I was like, no shît… :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    I'm guessing the "big announcement" is a really really really difficult thing to do, OP, but once it's done it must get a whole lot easier to tell new people you meet if it comes up in conversation. And to get on with your life without hiding it anymore. I've only had to do the heart-in-my-mouth big announcement to tell a man I've fallen for him (it has always come out at an awkward pitch, with a choking sound as if I'm already gobbling the poor divil up. :o ) so I'd multiply that by a few thousand to imagine the bravery it takes to come out, even in a society where most people will be sound about it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭Friend Computer


    Holsten wrote: »
    I'm the same OP.

    What is the big deal? How many openly gay entertainers are there? Lots and lots.

    It doesn't matter... why do it in this big way? Who cares like!

    I'm going to quote someone who, I feel, sums up nicely why there's such a big deal about it.
    Romantic relationships are inextricably embedded in conversation. Even in brief interactions, men talk about their girlfriends and ex girlfriends and women talk about their boyfriends and ex boyfriends. Being silent is not really possible because people wonder why you refuse to talk about these things. And, after a while, people begin to ask questions. If you are closeted then you don’t have many options: you can either come out and face the potentially devastating consequences; or you must actively lie about yourself.

    Staying in the closet takes a lot of intelligence, social finesse and, most of all, endurance. It takes a lot of work to maintain a convincing lie. The effort of constantly creating plausible fictions and the persistent fear of being found out is a heavy burden to bare. And when you’re closeted, it is a burden that you will have to carry alone. It drains you. It even makes you sick. Studies have found that people with concealable stigma’s (eg closeted gays) have poorer physical and psychological health than people with non-concealable stigmas (eg open gays).

    Straight folk don’t have to go through all this to conceal their identities so queer folk shouldn’t have to either. I hear a lot of homophobic straights (in general, not accusing the asker of anything) that complain about queers making them feel uncomfortable by making their existence known. I even hear them make the ludicrous claim that queer folk would be treated better if they weren’t so overtly gay. But I don’t think that equal rights can ever be won by allowing bigots to comfortably maintain their bigoted beliefs. In a democracy, equality is won by numbers, and to get numbers you need to make your presence known. In the Western world, we’ve come a long way when it comes to gay rights, but I think it is very naive to think that the progress we have made would still exist if queer folks just stayed in the closet. Fortunately a bunch of queer folks did not remain in the closet; they went out in the open chanting “we’re here, we’re queer, get used to it”. They didn’t allow themselves to be bullied back into the closet and, when it became clear that they were here to stay, people got used to it. And as more and more people came out a lot of families and friends found that their love outweighed their want to maintain their bigoted preconceptions.

    That being said, people have good reason to stay in the closet. In the West we like to pretend that people are all independent, but the truth is that we all rely on the support of others. If a family cannot accept you and you are not financially independent then there is a good chance that you will spend the rest of your life on the street. If your school can’t accept you then you could be bullied so severely that you develop persistent mental disorders that you will have to live with for the rest of your life; and things could get so bad that you don’t even make it to adulthood.

    Coming out is not about sexuality it’s about security. It is very difficult to hide your orientation forever. Closeted queers need to know that the people in their lives will accept them because their future depends on it. People will find out. And it’s very hard to get on with life when you know that, at any moment, everything can fall apart. That is why coming out is important.


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