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2014 Champion Hurdle

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,980 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    Twiston Davis on TNO.... Backed TNO last time out and won't be backing again. I'll be on the HF train for the first time at Cheltenham!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭hucklebuck


    UDS and Our Conor are the key to this race for me.

    If UDS is as good as I think he will be and maintains the gallop, he wins.

    If UDS cant maintain the gallop I think it will be Our Conor holding off HF.

    Without UDS its a whole different race


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    When I said that TNO needs to be droped on the line I was exaggerating to an extent but have a look at his defeat agains At Fishers Cross last year and don't take my word for it Twiston Davies Jnr and Snr have both been quoted as saying that he needs to be held on to for as long as possible, my point been Hurricane Fly can do it either way. Its also worth noteing that TNO has only ever won one race over 16f, a 4 runner event against ROR and trees.

    With regards to MTOY, while the last run was encouraging from a battling perspective I have absolutely no doubt that again iin that regard Hurricane FLy holds the trump card with him, and in refernce to that last race he still allowed TNO to almost get back on terms despite him going through the last.

    If UDS runs I wouldnt see Our Conor as the biggest benificary, it would be TNO for me, personally I cant see him running and the hype is laughable with rgard to the horse, visually impressive horses with far better formlines have been found out and I wouldnt expect anything differenet here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭Malarkey121


    I have it as Our Conor, My Tent or Yours, Hurricane Fly and The New One myself and rightly or wrongly on pure value in that preference.
    Ideally the winner comes from that group, I would be surprised if the winner is not there.

    Our Conor already backed and in the book 5/1 and might cover up with My Tent at same price.

    I've convinced myself that's the way to go - I will go another 50 on both this weekend and I will say no more on the matter :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭RichieLawlor


    The New One


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    The New One

    The Fly :p:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    The New One will battle all the way to the line. The drawback is Sam Twiston Davies. He always seems to blame himself whenever he gets beat. I can't see My Tent Or Yours getting up the hill, based on his performance in last year's Supreme. Our Conor has to buck the trends. Triumph Hurdle winners generally have a poor record in the Champion, Katchit excepted. Un De Sceaux has plenty to prove. It's between the current champion and the obvious pretender to his crown TNO, in my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Huntley


    I can't see My Tent Or Yours getting up the hill, based on his performance in last year's Supreme.

    I'm starting to question what people are defining as "getting up the hill".

    MTOY ran to the line in the Supreme while pulling away from the field. He was outstayed/outbattled/outgalloped by a horse in front who wasn't stopping. That isn't a case of him not getting up the hill.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭prettyboy81


    Gowran in doubt for tomorrow. So if UDS doesn't run, Willie will have his reason for the owner not to send him over to the Festival.

    Hopefully they some how manage to get Gowran on tomorrow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    Huntley wrote: »
    I'm starting to question what people are defining as "getting up the hill".

    MTOY ran to the line in the Supreme while pulling away from the field. He was outstayed/outbattled/outgalloped by a horse in front who wasn't stopping. That isn't a case of him not getting up the hill.

    I think he's a far superior horse on an easier track. His best performances have come at Aintree, Newbury and Kempton - the complete opposite of Cheltenham.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭RichieLawlor


    I think he's a far superior horse on an easier track. His best performances have come at Aintree, Newbury and Kempton - the complete opposite of Cheltenham.

    One could argue that his run in the supreme was the equal of any of those at the time, and that he ran into a monster on the day


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    One could argue that his run in the supreme was the equal of any of those at the time, and that he ran into a monster on the day

    If he was a Champion Hurdle horse, he should've beaten Champagne Fever. Willie Mullins must be laughing. If anybody fancies MTOY for the Champion Hurdle, surely Willie should be keeping Champagne Fever to hurdles? The fact that he's jumping fences says it all. I'll gladly admit that I was 100% wrong if My Tent Or Yours wins the Champion Hurdle. You can bookmark this post and quote me if he wins it. Somehow I don't think you'll be doing it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    One could argue that his run in the supreme was the equal of any of those at the time, and that he ran into a monster on the day

    One could argue anything but one would not neccessarily be right!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Huntley


    I think he's a far superior horse on an easier track. His best performances have come at Aintree, Newbury and Kempton - the complete opposite of Cheltenham.

    I'd agree but it isn't a case of him not getting the hill. That term is reserved for horses who usually fall into a hole quite rapidly and weaken. MTOY didn't do that in the Supreme. Visually the two in front are pulling away from a stretched field in behind.

    What have I overlooked that leads you to believe he didn't get up the hill?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    Huntley wrote: »
    I'd agree but it isn't a case of him not getting the hill. That term is reserved for horses who usually fall into a hole quite rapidly and weaken. MTOY didn't do that in the Supreme. Visually the two in front are pulling away from a stretched field in behind.

    What have I overlooked that leads you to believe he didn't get up the hill?

    MTOY came there swinging into the home turn. Granted, Ruby rode a very canny race from the front but I genuinely believe that if MTOY was a Champion Hurdle horse he'd have picked up Champagne Fever easily enough.
    Champagne Fever might very well win the Arkle but he wouldn't have a hope of winning the Champion Hurdle.

    I'll be backing MTOY to win the Aintree hurdle, even though it's over half a mile extra, but I wouldn't be touching him over 2m 1f of a well contested Champion Hurdle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Huntley


    All well and good but not what I was asking. MTOY ran to the line in that race, while he and the winner pulled away from the stretched field in behind. I think he was out-battled/out-galloped/outstayed by a horse who wasn't stopping in front. The same thing might happen in the Champion Hurdle but I don't see any evidence of him not getting up the hill. Our definitions must vary.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12 judgethemoment


    hucklebuck wrote: »
    UDS and Our Conor are the key to this race for me.

    If UDS is as good as I think he will be and maintains the gallop, he wins.

    If UDS cant maintain the gallop I think it will be Our Conor holding off HF.

    Without UDS its a whole different race


    Mullins has said he has a stone to find with HF

    Not doubting his ability....he has looked impressive winning but he's beaten f*ck all


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,297 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    If he was a Champion Hurdle horse, he should've beaten Champagne Fever. Willie Mullins must be laughing. If anybody fancies MTOY for the Champion Hurdle, surely Willie should be keeping Champagne Fever to hurdles? The fact that he's jumping fences says it all. I'll gladly admit that I was 100% wrong if My Tent Or Yours wins the Champion Hurdle. You can bookmark this post and quote me if he wins it. Somehow I don't think you'll be doing it.

    I imagine you said the same about Binocular when Captain Cee Bee beat him then.

    It looks a very similar situation to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭hucklebuck


    When I said that TNO needs to be droped on the line I was exaggerating to an extent but have a look at his defeat agains At Fishers Cross last year and don't take my word for it Twiston Davies Jnr and Snr have both been quoted as saying that he needs to be held on to for as long as possible, my point been Hurricane Fly can do it either way. Its also worth noteing that TNO has only ever won one race over 16f, a 4 runner event against ROR and trees.

    With regards to MTOY, while the last run was encouraging from a battling perspective I have absolutely no doubt that again iin that regard Hurricane FLy holds the trump card with him, and in refernce to that last race he still allowed TNO to almost get back on terms despite him going through the last.

    If UDS runs I wouldnt see Our Conor as the biggest benificary, it would be TNO for me, personally I cant see him running and the hype is laughable with rgard to the horse, visually impressive horses with far better formlines have been found out and I wouldnt expect anything differenet here.

    Two things with this, its absolutely brilliant for everyone to say TNO needs holding on to until the last minute but in practice it hasnt worked out. Zarkandar has made Sam go for him, My Tent was cantering all over him in Kempton and again Sam had to get after him. He would need a muddling race for this to happen and be wont get with UDS and OC in the race.

    So because (some) horses with better formlines have been found out that means they all will?

    What do you make of Ruby saying TNO is looking for a pacemaker but he will have some job keeping up and "if I am riding Hurricane Fly and this guy goes I wouldn't dream of giving him a soft lead"

    Suppose fancying UDS is laughable and Ruby is a joke too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭hucklebuck


    Mullins has said he has a stone to find with HF

    Not doubting his ability....he has looked impressive winning but he's beaten f*ck all

    He possibly has but it hard to know, I am a massive fan of his and would be stunned if he is outside the top 3.

    On MTOY, he got the hill alright but it was a supreme ride by Ruby "metronome" Walsh. Shame he wont be on UDS in the Champion.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    If he was a Champion Hurdle horse, he should've beaten Champagne Fever. Willie Mullins must be laughing. If anybody fancies MTOY for the Champion Hurdle, surely Willie should be keeping Champagne Fever to hurdles? The fact that he's jumping fences says it all.

    Why did Simonsig go over fences when he likely had a Champion Hurdle at his mercy. Dawn Run? Even horses like Best Mate and Moscow Flyer and Sprinter Sacre. Fences are the pinnacle of the national hunt game. Why would you keep a horse bred and with the scope for chasing over hurdles? Hurdlers are admirable. However jumping 8 hurdles on the way to victory is never going to be as prestigious or likely profitable as having a true champion chaser.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    Why did Simonsig go over fences when he likely had a Champion Hurdle at his mercy. Dawn Run? Even horses like Best Mate and Moscow Flyer and Sprinter Sacre. Fences are the pinnacle of the national hunt game. Why would you keep a horse bred and with the scope for chasing over hurdles? Hurdlers are admirable. However jumping 8 hurdles on the way to victory is never going to be as prestigious or likely profitable as having a true champion chaser.

    exactly.Plus usually most of those hurdlers after a season or two begin to fill out,put on weight so lose the tactical speed for hurdle races,and off they go chasing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 913 ✭✭✭tomaussie


    Guys I'm finding myself with a difficult decision.

    I had the biggest bet of my life last year on Our Conor and I really want to go in stronger this year and I would in a heartbeat but for the negative vibes on here about the jockey.

    It seems the tactical side may be more relevant this year so am I right to be tentative ? How poor is this jockey ?

    I think Our Conor is at the very least a free EW bet in that I think he'll be placed at worst but I would prefer to go in big for a win.

    Is the jockey good enough to read the race as it unfolds and can he be trusted to make the quick decisions needed depending on how it unfolds ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭mulbot


    tomaussie wrote: »
    Guys I'm finding myself with a difficult decision.

    I had the biggest bet of my life last year on Our Conor and I really want to go in stronger this year and I would in a heartbeat but for the negative vibes on here about the jockey.

    It seems the tactical side may be more relevant this year so am I right to be tentative ? How poor is this jockey ?

    I think Our Conor is at the very least a free EW bet in that I think he'll be placed at worst but I would prefer to go in big for a win.

    Is the jockey good enough to read the race as it unfolds and can he be trusted to make the quick decisions needed depending on how it unfolds ?
    id prefer cooper but it wont matter,he wont be caught once he slingshots off the final bend,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 321 ✭✭Bluefox21


    I'm sorry I have to interject here and feel free to quote! I simply cannot understand the love in for Our Conor. Fair enough he blitzed the field last year but he has not looked like he can beat any of the top three in the betting at any point this year. Can people backing him at least admit it is purely on last seasons form? Or provide another reason?

    Don't forget Hurricane Fly had a poor workout in the run up to Leopardstown and still when Ruby pressed the accelerator he coasted clear. It's not as if it was that quick a race either. Someone asks if the jockey will make a difference? Of course it will... a massive one! This is probably the most competitive Champion Hurdle in living memory even if Annie Power and UDS go elsewhere.

    Fair enough at 6/1 there's an outside e/w chance based on last year but for my money Hurricane Fly beats him every time and the New One & MTOY will run Hurricane Fly extremely close. That leaves no room for Our Conor and that's assuming the two others don't run and ruling out Jezski!

    In all honesty this isn't really a race to bet on. The cruising speed at the close of races demonstrated by the New One and MTOY is phenomenal but my heart says that if Hurricane Fly is in contention that champion spirit will kick in and he'll find that extra gear!

    Only because I'll be sickened if I don't I'll put a small bet on HF and a tri-cast with the two others. I'd be interested to hear other opinions. And to reiterate, the jockey is going to make a huge difference - there is no way the winner will be slingshotting clear of anyone!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    I can't wait for this race. For what it's worth I just don't think the English horses are as good as ours and I think we'll definitely have the winner. Who knows which horse that will be? Obviously a lot will depend on who turns up and what way the race is run. Anyway, I will have a token bet on the day, but nothing too hefty as I just want to witness the race as a spectacle. It looks a fascinating contest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭jimjamcos


    tomaussie wrote: »
    Guys I'm finding myself with a difficult decision.

    I had the biggest bet of my life last year on Our Conor and I really want to go in stronger this year and I would in a heartbeat but for the negative vibes on here about the jockey.

    It seems the tactical side may be more relevant this year so am I right to be tentative ? How poor is this jockey ?

    I think Our Conor is at the very least a free EW bet in that I think he'll be placed at worst but I would prefer to go in big for a win.

    Is the jockey good enough to read the race as it unfolds and can he be trusted to make the quick decisions needed depending on how it unfolds ?


    He's average, at best. Lacks the experience/tactical awareness and weak in a finish. He's enough not to be backing OC at current price imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭ste2010


    jimjamcos wrote: »
    He's average, at best. Lacks the experience/tactical awareness and weak in a finish. He's enough not to be backing OC at current price imo.

    He's a 5 year old. He's probably a better horse than hurricane fly was at his respective age. I agree his price is short but for a 5 year old he is well forward and could progress at a rate of knots


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 913 ✭✭✭tomaussie


    jimjamcos wrote: »
    He's average, at best. Lacks the experience/tactical awareness and weak in a finish. He's enough not to be backing OC at current price imo.

    Thanks Jim. This is the kind of opinion I was looking for.

    I'm not happy to hear it as I really want to back OC and quite heavily too. Damn. Don't know what to do now. Hopefully somebody can put up a good counter argument to yours.

    ps, go Ade !!!! What a spot by the way.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 913 ✭✭✭tomaussie


    ste2010 wrote: »
    He's a 5 year old. He's probably a better horse than hurricane fly was at his respective age. I agree his price is short but for a 5 year old he is well forward and could progress at a rate of knots

    Yeah Ste but it's the jockey I was looking for an opinion on. I'm already convinced by the horse and will either back it or have no bet.


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