Croke Park residents to seek concert injuctions.....your opinions?

anncoates · 12-02-2014 06:57PM

Maybe if the residents get no joy they could start a campaign of peaceful disruption /obstruction during big events at Croker ?

wedger · 12-02-2014 06:58PM

FatherTed wrote: »

Why don't the residents sue the concert promoters/GAA/DCC for breach of contract?

Because It would be impossible for a residents to sue such an organisation. They would swamp us in legal sh1t that we would end up penniless and worse off. We had no other option but to take croke park on the word... Written I may add. So in a sense it's a gentleman a agreement.

What slot of ye all fail to see here is that Croke Park is not a sports stadium. It's a business and it won't let anyone or anything get in the way of its profits machine...

Rough Sleeper · 12-02-2014 07:01PM

anncoates wrote: »

Maybe if the residents get no joy they could start a campaign of peaceful disruption /obstruction during big events at Croker ?

Buying out all the ham, bread and butter in the vicinity would rattle the matchgoers, for a start...

smileyj1987 · 12-02-2014 07:03PM

wedger wrote: »

Because It would be impossible for a residents to sue such an organisation. They would swamp us in legal sh1t that we would end up penniless and worse off. We had no other option but to take croke park on the word... Written I may add. So in a sense it's a gentleman a agreement.

I'm no expert in Law but if the residents have an agreement on paper then they really have the GAA / Aiken over a barrel !
If they have signed any form of document that states we will only have 3 nights of concerts on the trot then they have to honour . If it went to court or the likes the Judge will look at it and back the residents Immediately .

weldoninhio · 12-02-2014 07:03PM

FatherTed wrote: »

Why don't the residents sue the concert promoters/GAA/DCC for breach of contract?

Because the residents don't have any contract with the concert promoters/GAA/DCC to breach!!!

12-02-2014 07:08PM

What time is the meeting at tonight?

G'luck residents!

kippy · 12-02-2014 07:09PM

smileyj1987 wrote: »

I'm no expert in Law but if the residents have an agreement on paper then they really have the GAA / Aiken over a barrel !
If they have signed any form of document that states we will only have 3 nights of concerts on the trot then they have to honour . If it went to court or the likes the Judge will look at it and back the residents Immediately .

The residents dont want to sue.....they probably dont have grounds to.
However if there are licenses issued to run events they have every right to go against them.

roadsmart · 12-02-2014 08:08PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Because the residents don't have any contract with the concert promoters/GAA/DCC to breach!!!

Ah welcome back WeLdoninhio, did you have a nice day at work?:D

12-02-2014 08:32PM

Mod

If you can't post without resorting to petty personal digs and sniping, don't post at all.

John_Rambo · 12-02-2014 09:26PM

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

You will find very very few people to entertain you in a conversation on the morality of parking legally

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

I just don't get the mentality

I don't get the mentality either.

I can park perfectly legally and still be a pain, but I don't. Maybe it's living in a city in close proximity to others that has us showing a bit more respect for people. It's not legal to open doors for people, pull in for faster vehicles, get off a seat for elderly or pregnant people... but I do it all the same. When I park up I make sure I'm not impeding anyone or causing hassle for anyone.

wedger · 12-02-2014 09:28PM

I'm at the sham meeting and Croke Park have just said they won't honour the 2009 agreement. They have said they understand that the community will be massively disposed but this is a big event and must go ahead...

roadsmart · 12-02-2014 09:36PM

To be honest I expected no better. Just have to keep at them.

Smidge · 12-02-2014 09:42PM

wedger wrote: »

I'm at the sham meeting and Croke Park have just said they won't honour the 2009 agreement. They have said they understand that the community will be massively disposed but this is a big event and must go ahead...

has anyone a copy of the agreement?
If they get away this time, you can forget about it tbh wedger.
It will be open season at CP and the money machine will roll on and roll over everyone.
Do the residents group have a legal representation?

John_Rambo · 12-02-2014 09:53PM

wedger wrote: »

They have said they understand that the community will be massively disposed but this is a big event and must go ahead...

Money talks. Lets hope it goes well and the attitudes displayed on this thread are from a minority of concert goers.

smileyj1987 · 12-02-2014 09:56PM

wedger wrote: »

I'm at the sham meeting and Croke Park have just said they won't honour the 2009 agreement. They have said they understand that the community will be massively disposed but this is a big event and must go ahead...

I would honestly tell them it's not on and the people in the area are going to consider their options . They can't treat people like that at all . The GAA bang on about community and the likes yet at the end of the day they are just looking to make a quick buck . The sad part is their stadium is paid off for so it's not like they need the extra money .

Gran Hermano · 12-02-2014 10:18PM

Who has the final say DCC or the GAA?

bumper234 · 12-02-2014 10:20PM

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Who has the final say DCC or the GAA?

DCC there are 3 independent 3 FG and 3 Labour councillors for that area. Locals need to start HAMMERING them all with emails, letters, phone calls and petitions and constantly remind them that there are local elections coming soon and if they vote for the licences to go ahead then their political careers will soon be over.

Johnny_Fontane · 12-02-2014 10:59PM

I too was at the meeting.

First time at one of these and probably my last. There is spectacular bureaucracy within all of these things. I think the residents genuinely do have a case, as there was verbal agreement after the U2 gigs with the then head of croke park and then gaa president that there would be no more than three gigs. They challenged the now head of croke park and he basically just said he wasn't there and this was what they were going to do.

The residents are going to really put it up to croke park on these five gigs. There is a legacy of deep mistrust between the residents and croke park and this is now descending into a farcical situation where croke park are walking away from the residents.

If I was to call it, I think that the gigs will go ahead but there will be restrictions of some sort with regards to times or something. Would I be surprised to see Garth have to cancel a couple of nights? Not at all. I think Aitken Promotions are really putting their bollocks on the line here, and they are really pushing it. Time will tell, but this is not cut and dry. It now goes to license stage and DCC. Who knows what can happen there?

end of the road · 12-02-2014 11:03PM

FatherTed wrote: »

Why don't the residents sue the concert promoters/GAA/DCC for breach of contract?

what contract? nobody has been able to link to such a contract so i suspect their is none and their mixing it up with the planning stipulation and thinking its an agreement with them when rather its a restriction put in by the council as part of the granting of planning permitian for the redevelopment of croke park

end of the road · 12-02-2014 11:04PM

wedger wrote: »

It will all be revealed tonight at the meeting...!!! In fact I'll even publish it here after...

so it doesn't exist then, thanks, thought so

John_Rambo · 12-02-2014 11:07PM

end of the road wrote: »

so it doesn't exist then, thanks, thought so

Are you saying you thought there wasn't an agreement and now you are saying it doesn't exist?

weldoninhio · 12-02-2014 11:09PM

end of the road wrote: »

so it doesn't exist then, thanks, thought so

The oft mentioned, never seen, mystical, mythical agreement

secman · 12-02-2014 11:16PM

Hopefully DCC Look at this in a fair manner when they discuss the permit application and the contempt of both GAA and Aiken, thinking that the sale of 400,000 tickets will force them to grant the permits and totally disregard the residents whom they happen to represent.

end of the road · 12-02-2014 11:16PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Are you saying you thought there wasn't an agreement and now you are saying it doesn't exist?

i'm saying i don't believe their ever was an agreement, that the residents are believing the planning stipulation in the redevelopment of croke park was an agreement with them when infact its a restriction put in by the council as part of granting the planning permitian for the redevelopment, and that the GAA wouldn't be stupid enough to agree in writing to anything with the residents

Smidge · 12-02-2014 11:22PM

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

I too was at the meeting.

First time at one of these and probably my last. There is spectacular bureaucracy within all of these things. I think the residents genuinely do have a case, as there was verbal agreement after the U2 gigs with the then head of croke park and then gaa president that there would be no more than three gigs. They challenged the now head of croke park and he basically just said he wasn't there and this was what they were going to do.

The residents are going to really put it up to croke park on these five gigs. There is a legacy of deep mistrust between the residents and croke park and this is now descending into a farcical situation where croke park are walking away from the residents.

If I was to call it, I think that the gigs will go ahead but there will be restrictions of some sort with regards to times or something. Would I be surprised to see Garth have to cancel a couple of nights? Not at all. I think Aitken Promotions are really putting their bollocks on the line here, and they are really pushing it. Time will tell, but this is not cut and dry. It now goes to license stage and DCC. Who knows what can happen there?

I posted the 2 comments below in this thread 2 days ago Johnny.
I think we may very well be on to something here.

Promoters can change their minds and reel things in when it gets "difficult".
The don't like to dirty their bib too much either for future applications, regardless of whether its Garth Brooks or not.
The promoter below was MCD.

But it does show that promoters can change their mind and "reassess" the situation.
Aiken could quite easily say that the permission for the final 2 gigs has not been granted and give a refund to the customers.
I could see them thinking about the "long game".

For example, if they really push these 2 extra dates for Garth Brooks, then that's 8 concerts in total at CP in comparison to the 3 at Aviva.

Pushing the five GB concerts may very well be the straw that break the residents backs.
The 5 Garth Brooks gigs may well go ahead this year if Aiken are foolish but the residents may very well be prepared for future concerts.
This could be the residents "Golden Ticket" to bring proceedings for limitations of FUTURE events to be held at CP.

So the question really is this........
Will Aiken be prepared to risk the already over average(in comparison to Aviva)concerts that are being held in CP at the risk of being confined to a 3 gig MAX in the future?

Smidge · 12-02-2014 11:29PM

end of the road wrote: »

i'm saying i don't believe their ever was an agreement, that the residents are believing the planning stipulation in the redevelopment of croke park was an agreement with them when infact its a restriction put in by the council as part of granting the planning permitian for the redevelopment, and that the GAA wouldn't be stupid enough to agree in writing to anything with the residents

Ah here, this is getting on my wick

Say you are granted planning permission for a house?
You must submit the plans.

The council get back to you and agree to grant your planning but include restrictions.
One of these restrictions is, say, adding 5 extra skylights.
You are only allowed 3 skylights.

But a couple of years later you say, feck it I want my extra skylights and put 5 extra in.
Council man drives past and sees these extra skylights and knows they are not part of your permission.
Now you whinge "But shure they skylights aren't botherin' anyone shure and I want them"

It WAS a planning stipulation to have only THREE.
And you BROKE that stipulation requirement of your planning.

You will be made TAKE OUT THOSE EXTRA SKYLIGHTS.

bumper234 · 12-02-2014 11:30PM

end of the road wrote: »

i'm saying i don't believe their ever was an agreement, that the residents are believing the planning stipulation in the redevelopment of croke park was an agreement with them when infact its a restriction put in by the council as part of granting the planning permitian for the redevelopment, and that the GAA wouldn't be stupid enough to agree in writing to anything with the residents

The stipulations were actually put in by An Bord Pleneala

“An Bord Pleanála granted permission for the redevelopment of Croke Park Stadium on the 9th of March 1993 under Planning Permission Register Reference No. 0238/92. Condition 11 of the permission allows for three special events such as concerts per year to be held in the stadium under this permission subject to the approval of an event management plan which is required to be submitted by way of compliance submission to Dublin City Councils Planning Department.

As I said earlier there are local elections coming soon and a lot of council members will be more worried about holding their seats than what Mary and John Joe from boggerville think.

wedger · 12-02-2014 11:30PM

Meeting was a sham on the part of Croke Park. When they agreement of 2009 was put to them the "stadium Director" said. Time moves on and things change... He didnt dispute that the agreement was there but said that he wasn't privy to it.

Majority there totally opposed to the concerts. But delighted to see 2 lads from the community there in favour of the concerts. Croke park made it perfectly clear that they won't be taking considerations of the community into mind when planning their concerts.

Think Aiken reps were a little taken aback by the community response. Especially the response of Croke Park director who said that they weren't respecting the 2009 agreement...!

What was the most striking thing was that with a database of 20,000 residents they didn't send out an e-mail to let people know of the meeting. What was learned was that Croke Park rang 2 people to attend and no-one else...!!! They thought that those 2 people would spread the word...!!! Wonder would they have left it to 2 people to spread the word if people had to pay!!!!

weldoninhio · 12-02-2014 11:33PM

Smidge wrote: »

Ah here, this is getting on my wick

Say you are granted planning permission for a house?
You must submit the plans.

The council get back to you and agree to grant your planning but include restrictions.
One of these restrictions is, say, adding 5 extra skylights.
You are only allowed 3 skylights.

But a couple of years later you say, feck it I want my extra skylights and put 5 extra in.
Council man drives past and sees these extra skylights and knows they are not part of your permission.
Now you whinge "But shure they skylights aren't botherin' anyone shure and I want them"

It WAS a planning stipulation to have only THREE.
And you BROKE that stipulation requirement of your planning.

You will be made TAKE OUT THOSE EXTRA SKYLIGHTS.

Maybe if you understood it, it might not get on your wick as much.

In your analogy above, it would be like putting in planning for a max of 3 currently. If you wanted to put another 5 skylights in you would have to go back to the planning authority and ask for permission for them.

You call up the glazers and order 5 new skylights, don't have them installed yet, and then contact the planning authority, as stipulated in the original planning application. They may let you go ahead, they may not, but before you ordered the new skylights, you had a good idea that they would.

John_Rambo · 12-02-2014 11:38PM

end of the road wrote: »

i'm saying i don't believe their ever was an agreement

Even the GAA acknowledge there was an agreement, it's there with An Board Pleanala. What makes you disbelieve, what makes you think a whole community would lie about something?

Croke Park residents to seek concert injuctions.....your opinions?

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