Turin Shroud breaking news!

Gotham · 12-02-2014 02:21PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

Man Utd, L'pool, Chelsea etc are real whereas your religion is not.

I'm trying to figure out which of the two Hitchens brothers he might be...

Also, this site is great for things like this.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin

Concise summaries of why things are bull**** with citations.

wretcheddomain · 12-02-2014 02:22PM

Even if it were a copy of Jesus, still means nothing - no more than a copy of the average Joe or Brian Cowen. A completely useless filthy scrap of cloth.

Hitchens · 12-02-2014 02:26PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Even if it were a copy of Jesus, still means nothing - no more than a copy of the average Joe or Brian Cowen. A completely useless filthy scrap of cloth.

As against a useless filthy scrap of cloth with a millionaire footballer's name on the back and worshipped slavishly by your young fella as taught to him by you

Guy:Incognito · 12-02-2014 02:26PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Irish people who scoff at the Shroud will go over the top buying Man Utd, L'pool, Chelsea etc, jerseys, for their children to worship at. Strange :rolleyes:

Is liking anything counted as worship?

At least theres proof footballers actually exist. They probably wont try scare you and tell you you'll burn in hell for eternity if you don't do as they say.

If they are jealous, the Vatican could try selling replica shrouds with "Christ 1" on the back.

120_Minutes · 12-02-2014 02:27PM

From a recent documentary, based off the shroud they extrapolated what the guy might have looked like.

The real face of Jesus? and whaddaya know, he looks like a middle eastern jewish guy and not a conservative white american guy.

Knasher · 12-02-2014 02:34PM

spurious wrote: »

There was an earthquake in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus of Nazareth's death and no-one mentioned it until now?
I would have thought that, with rolling rocks from tombs and hands in people's sides would have merited a mention.

Bear in mind that there was a full blown zombie invasion at this time, at least according to the bible which describes all the dead pious people waking up from their tombs and roaming into the city, and yet the Romans made no note of them (despite being renowned record keepers).

Stoic lot the Romans, I doubt they would have been fazed by an earthquake if they don't even consider a zombie invasion noteworthy.

ScumLord · 12-02-2014 02:48PM

It's also been linked to a facecloth and bindings that were apparently ripped off the main shroud and they have been matched up to torn edges. The face cloth has been on official records since 300AD though which is what called into question the shrouds dating.

The latest news I'd heard on it was that they could trace it back to 300AD with the face cloth but couldn't figure out the markings, they said it definitely wasn't painted on but had no way of confirming who it belonged to or even if it was from the time of Jesus.

TwoShedsJackson · 12-02-2014 02:49PM

Agricola wrote: »

I thought the thing was that the C14 dating was only allowed on a small piece of the very edge of the shroud, which they know believe could have been a medieval repair. They've never actually been able to test the centre of it, as they aren't allowed by the vatican.

Amazing. It's almost as if they knew it was a fake.

Ray Palmer · 12-02-2014 02:55PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Irish people who scoff at the Shroud will go over the top buying Man Utd, L'pool, Chelsea etc, jerseys, for their children to worship at. Strange :rolleyes:

I scoff at both religion and sport.
The shroud by all accounts is a fake. The guy is the wrong race, height and injuries don't match crucifixion as it would have been carried out in Jesus' time.
Then you have the fact there were so many crucifixions back then . The ability for medieval tech to be able to produce this image matches how it appears. History is littered with religious fakes. From the 6 heads all said to be John the Baptist's by the church at the same time and other obvious money scams followed by the church at the time.
The reason you are meant to kiss the bishop's ring (giggedy) is because it apparently has a piece of the original crucifix in it. Believable? I don't think so.

kneemos · 12-02-2014 02:59PM

Hitchens wrote: »

As against a useless filthy scrap of cloth with a millionaire footballer's name on the back and worshipped slavishly by your young fella as taught to him by you

One is idolatry the other is being a fan.
One is a bit of fun the other pertains to a belief system and a way of living,much more serious.

Putin · 12-02-2014 03:00PM

Mr Freeze wrote: »

That articles reads like some sort of Sci Fi.

Radiation emissions, carbon-14 isotopes, X-Rays, Neutrons, etc...

F**kin' wha?

Science, it's been around for awhile you know.

WilyCoyote · 12-02-2014 03:01PM

"The Shroud has attracted widespread interest ever since Secondo Pia took the first photograph of it in 1898 which showed details which could not be seen by the naked eye.

Last year scientists at the University of Padua in northern Italy dated it to between 300BC and AD400 – still hundreds of years after Christ, who is believed to have died between 30-36AD.

Other scientists have previously suggested that neutron radiation may have been responsible for the ghostly image of a crucified man with his arms crossed".
====================================================================================================================
You can't believe what was printed yesterday - nevermind what is supposed to be a basic TShirt printing operation from a couple of thousand years ago.

somuj · 12-02-2014 03:04PM

Wouldnt you think if god or jesus or any of these other supserstitions beings existed they would show themselves

Temptamperu · 12-02-2014 03:05PM

somuj wrote: »

Wouldnt you think if god or jesus or any of these other supserstitions beings existed they would show themselves

how dare you want to talk to your god!!! or show he exists hes not a dog and pony show

whiskeyman · 12-02-2014 03:11PM

It was the 'Juan Sheet does plenty' of its time...

WilyCoyote · 12-02-2014 03:14PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

From a recent documentary, based off the shroud they extrapolated what the guy might have looked like.

The real face of Jesus? and whaddaya know, he looks like a middle eastern jewish guy and not a conservative white american guy.

If they dredded up his hair he could look like a Rasta.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Rock-n-Roll/pod-blasphemous_rasta_jesus.jpg

BrensBenz · 12-02-2014 03:15PM

Some time ago, I watched a TV program about the shroud and it seemed to make sense. According to the program makers, and if I remember correctly:

The shroud was woven many hundreds of years after Jesus and was not typical of cloth from the Holy Land;
As said above, the wounds did not "fit";
The proportions of the body were wrong - if the shroud had been draped over a face and body, the result would have been "stretched", something like Mercator's map of the world, etc.

Their explanation was that the shroud is a primitive photograph or, actually, two (primitive) photographs, one of the head and torso and one of the legs. The cloth was steeped in photo-sensitive chemicals and exposed to light, probably through a pinhole "lens". The incorrect proportions are due to the distance between the camera and cloth being changed between exposures. The fact that the image is better seen in "negative" adds some credence to this.

Of course, the identity of the person(s) who tried to sell the idea that the shroud once covered the dead body of Jesus cannot be established. But you have to hand it to them - they perpetrated a scam which has been debated for centuries!

The Diabolical Monocle · 12-02-2014 03:17PM

A stoner passed out 2000 years ago, his mates thought it would be funny to put a tea-towel over his face.

Ray Palmer · 12-02-2014 03:23PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

From a recent documentary, based off the shroud they extrapolated what the guy might have looked like.

The real face of Jesus? and whaddaya know, he looks like a middle eastern jewish guy and not a conservative white american guy.

He doesn't look like a middle eastern Jewish person of the time which would look much more like what people would call Muslim looking now. He also very tall for the people of the time as people have been getting taller around the world.

Temptamperu · 12-02-2014 03:30PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

He doesn't look like a middle eastern Jewish person of the time which would look much more like what people would call Muslim looking now. He also very tall for the people of the time as people have been getting taller around the world.

From what source? how can you say he was tall when there is no evidence a Jesus of Nazareth even existed?

El Weirdo · 12-02-2014 03:32PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

At least theres proof footballers actually exist.

somuj wrote: »

Wouldnt you think if god or jesus or any of these other supserstitions beings existed they would show themselves

It's generally accepted that Jesus did exist.

Him being the actual son of god though, is a different matter.

Temptamperu · 12-02-2014 03:34PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

It's generally accepted that Jesus did exist.

Him being the actual son of god though, is a different matter.

wiki wrote:

based on methods such as biblical criticism of gospel texts

Im going to need a better answer than "it says so in a book"

ScumLord · 12-02-2014 03:49PM

BrensBenz wrote: »

The shroud was woven many hundreds of years after Jesus and was not typical of cloth from the Holy Land;

I've heard conflicting evidence that it is typical of the period.

As said above, the wounds did not "fit";
The proportions of the body were wrong - if the shroud had been draped over a face and body, the result would have been "stretched", something like Mercator's map of the world, etc.

They also said when the shroud is folded correctly in the style of the time and the bindings added that it does fit perfectly. Others had been just folding it in half over a body but there was a particular way of folding it around a body.

Ray Palmer · 12-02-2014 03:49PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

From what source? how can you say he was tall when there is no evidence a Jesus of Nazareth even existed?

There is tons of records telling us how tall people of the time were. If Jesus was so much taller than everybody else it would have been mentioned as he would have been very noticeable.

Hitchens · 12-02-2014 03:52PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There is tons of records telling us how tall people of the time were.

Link please

Ray Palmer · 12-02-2014 03:54PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Link please

You want me to link to somewhere that explains water is wet too? Go look and learn common knowledge :rolleyes:

Hitchens · 12-02-2014 03:56PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You want me to link to somewhere that explains water is wet too? Go look and learn common knowledge :rolleyes:

That's a gotcha then

Ray Palmer · 12-02-2014 03:58PM

Hitchens wrote: »

That's a gotcha then

Just means you are ignorant

http://remnantofgiants.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/how-tall-were-the-biblical-giants-a-comparative-chart/

2 seconds to search for that

BrensBenz · 12-02-2014 04:00PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I've heard conflicting evidence that it is typical of the period.

They also said when the shroud is folded correctly in the style of the time and the bindings added that it does fit perfectly. Others had been just folding it in half over a body but there was a particular way of folding it around a body.

Oh no! Journoes telling porkies! Whatever next?

The "photo" idea made sense to me because, in negative, the face in the shroud is very clear and correctly proportioned. If a cloth had been placed on a blood-stained face, the ears would have looked like car door mirrors, i.e. see the Arctic and Antarctic in Mercators map!

Oh well, opinions are just that!

Temptamperu · 12-02-2014 04:08PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Just means you are ignorant

http://remnantofgiants.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/how-tall-were-the-biblical-giants-a-comparative-chart/

2 seconds to search for that

You might want a better source than that mate. And again i'll state other than the bible which is fictional there is no proof of a jesus of nazareth let alone one that goes around healing leprosy and walking on water.

Turin Shroud breaking news!

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