Croke Park residents to seek concert injuctions.....your opinions?

ProfessorPlum · 12-02-2014 02:14PM

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

you shoving this down peoples throats doesnt help, give people the right to be upset at things, that what free speech is for.

This is the most obnoxious thing about this thread.

Some people going to the concert really seem unable to empathise at all with people living near the stadium. Some of the comments here are disgraceful and unnecessary. Many people who lack empathy have a personality disorder or a psychiatric illness. Is that what we are seeing here? Why can't people just say "look, we're really looking forward to the concert, but we understand the problems for the residents. I wonder what could be done to make it easier?".

Instead we get the 'just suck it up' crowd. I'm guessing these are the loudest vessels when it comes to complaining about pylons or massive wind turbines, or flooding or whatever. Sure when you live out in the country side, you should have known it was a prime area for a wind farm, and why shouldn't we just build massive pylons across your land? You live in a house in Cork City / on the coast / beside the shannon? - what did you expect? Why should my taxes go to compensate you for flood damage. Suck it up.

But most people in real life can see that all of these things cause hardship for others, even if they are not affected themselves. So we are happy to see funding going to flooded neighbourhoods, or to try and find alternatives to minimise the impact of windfarms and high voltage pylons, even though they are very much for the greater good.

So I can only rationalise that the few posters who have nothing but thoughtless, vile comments for the residents are narcissists, sociopaths/Antisocial personality types or are suffering from some other psychiatric disorder or personality disorder. It's just not normal to be so callous.

roadsmart · 12-02-2014 02:19PM

Very well put, plummy.

ronjo · 12-02-2014 02:20PM

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

This is the most obnoxious thing about this thread.

Some people going to the concert really seem unable to empathise at all with people living near the stadium. Some of the comments here are disgraceful and unnecessary. Many people who lack empathy have a personality disorder or a psychiatric illness. Is that what we are seeing here? Why can't people just say "look, we're really looking forward to the concert, but we understand the problems for the residents. I wonder what could be done to make it easier?".

Instead we get the 'just suck it up' crowd. I'm guessing these are the loudest vessels when it comes to complaining about pylons or massive wind turbines, or flooding or whatever. Sure when you live out in the country side, you should have known it was a prime area for a wind farm, and why shouldn't we just build massive pylons across your land? You live in a house in Cork City / on the coast / beside the shannon? - what did you expect? Why should my taxes go to compensate you for flood damage. Suck it up.

But most people in real life can see that all of these things cause hardship for others, even if they are not affected themselves. So we are happy to see funding going to flooded neighbourhoods, or to try and find alternatives to minimise the impact of windfarms and high voltage pylons, even though they are very much for the greater good.

So I can only rationalise that the few posters who have nothing but thoughtless, vile comments for the residents are narcissists, sociopaths/Antisocial personality types or are suffering from some other psychiatric disorder or personality disorder. It's just not normal to be so callous.

I agree with this.
I wouldnt have any interest in this type of thread normally but its the obnoxiousness of a few posters that drives me to follow it.
I really should just stop reading it.

will1977 · 12-02-2014 02:21PM

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Bottom line on all this is, is that we will see what happens at this meeting tonight. I'll write up something afterwards if anything interesting comes out of it.

Johnny, do you know if this meeting open to all local residents ?

Johnny_Fontane · 12-02-2014 02:25PM

will1977 wrote: »

Johnny, do you know if this meeting open to all local residents ?

not sure, but get in touch with the liaison officer in croker

anncoates · 12-02-2014 02:28PM

Take along a few prints of some of the stuff on this thread. :pac:

JumpShivers · 12-02-2014 02:39PM

I live a stones throw away from Croke Park, and I really do feel sorry for the people living in the area. Even getting into the city is a pain on match days and concerts. I don't like the inconvenience even match days cost when trying to travel into the city and back, and I don't even live in the area.

I don't know.. maybe the atmosphere to Garth Brooks will be different compared to match days, which usually consists of people hitting Quinns beforehand, getting plastered and then making their way down to Croke Park. If I was living in the area and a person blocked me into my driveway.. Furious isn't the word. and yes, it does happen.

John_Rambo · 12-02-2014 03:49PM

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

The streets of Dublin on the other hand are public property paid for and maintained equally by the taxes of people who live there and people who live in the most remote part of the country, of course its not equally though as Dublin would get much more than its fair share of money towards road maintenance etc while people out the country are left with roads in terrible condition

You're deluded if you think that's the case Nox, it's the opposite. Dublin tax money is pouring out of the capital to support the rural communities!!

As you can see here, figures show that Dublin is the powerhouse of the Irish economy, that Dublin may not be getting its fair share and that a geographical analysis of tax collection and public spending in Ireland and how it relates to population, wealth and social need is needed.

Here's a breakdown.

Income Tax (Non-PAYE):
Dublin paid 38.8% followed by Cork at 11%, Galway 4.5%, Kildare 4%, Limerick 3.9%, Meath 3.5%, Wicklow 3.4% and Tipperary 3.0%

VAT:
Dublin contributed 55.6% of all VAT, followed by Cork at 8.8% and Kildare 3.4%. All other counties accounted for less than 3% of the VAT take individually.

Corporation Tax:
Dublin-based companies paid 62.4% of all Corporation Profit Tax yielding €3.2bn out of a total tax of €5.1bn in 2008. Cork provided 7.7% and Limerick 4.3%

Capital Gains Tax:
Dublin paid 41% of all Capital Gains Tax with Cork on 7.6%, Kildare on 5.1%, Galway on 4.6%, Wicklow on 4%, Meath 3.5% and Sligo 3%

Source;
http://leovaradkar.ie/2010/07/dublin-pays-more-than-half-of-all-tax-in-the-country/

To ad to that Dubliners property tax is now funding and subsidising rural homeowners.

Source:
http://www.herald.ie/news/dublin-city-is-biggest-loser-in-tax-uturn-29702068.html

So next time you see some hedge trimming going on in your area don't forget to think about who's paying for it. Doubt that's going to happen if you can't even display a bit of respect, decorum and decent manners in this thread.

end of the road · 12-02-2014 04:54PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

You're deluded if you think that's the case Nox, it's the opposite. Dublin tax money is pouring out of the capital to support the rural communities!!

As you can see here, figures show that Dublin is the powerhouse of the Irish economy, that Dublin may not be getting its fair share and that a geographical analysis of tax collection and public spending in Ireland and how it relates to population, wealth and social need is needed.

Here's a breakdown.

Income Tax (Non-PAYE):
Dublin paid 38.8% followed by Cork at 11%, Galway 4.5%, Kildare 4%, Limerick 3.9%, Meath 3.5%, Wicklow 3.4% and Tipperary 3.0%

VAT:
Dublin contributed 55.6% of all VAT, followed by Cork at 8.8% and Kildare 3.4%. All other counties accounted for less than 3% of the VAT take individually.

Corporation Tax:
Dublin-based companies paid 62.4% of all Corporation Profit Tax yielding €3.2bn out of a total tax of €5.1bn in 2008. Cork provided 7.7% and Limerick 4.3%

Capital Gains Tax:
Dublin paid 41% of all Capital Gains Tax with Cork on 7.6%, Kildare on 5.1%, Galway on 4.6%, Wicklow on 4%, Meath 3.5% and Sligo 3%

Source;
http://leovaradkar.ie/2010/07/dublin-pays-more-than-half-of-all-tax-in-the-country/

To ad to that Dubliners property tax is now funding and subsidising rural homeowners.

Source:
http://www.herald.ie/news/dublin-city-is-biggest-loser-in-tax-uturn-29702068.html

So next time you see some hedge trimming going on in your area don't forget to think about who's paying for it. Doubt that's going to happen if you can't even display a bit of respect, decorum and decent manners in this thread.

all of that could be twisted either way to fit an agenda if one has one, so the idea that tax money just goes round and round is probably the more truthful reality

John_Rambo · 12-02-2014 04:56PM

end of the road wrote: »

all of that could be twisted either way to fit an agenda

No, they are actual facts and figures.

bumper234 · 12-02-2014 04:57PM

end of the road wrote: »

all of that could be twisted either way to fit an agenda if one has one, so the idea that tax money just goes round and round is probably the more throutful reality

You disagree with these FACTS? Surprise surprise :rolleyes:

12-02-2014 04:58PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

So next time you see some hedge trimming going on in your area don't forget to think about who's paying for it. Doubt that's going to happen if you can't even display a bit of respect, decorum and decent manners in this thread.

On an individual basis a Dublin tax payer sees much more benefit from his/her takes than an individual rural dweller.

Rural areas are an after thought an awful lot of the time in this country.

And don't accuse me of lacking respect or decorum.

ProfessorPlum · 12-02-2014 05:12PM

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

On an individual basis a Dublin tax payer sees much more benefit from his/her takes than an individual rural dweller.

Rural areas are an after thought an awful lot of the time in this country.

And don't accuse me of lacking respect or decorum.

From the person threatening to piss in peoples gardens!

Please spare us.

John_Rambo · 12-02-2014 05:17PM

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

On an individual basis a Dublin tax payer sees much more benefit from his/her takes than an individual rural dweller.

You're wrong, the facts prove that. It may seem like that because we have footpaths, lighting, museums, culture and restaurants, but we collectively pay for it, it's cheaper to build and maintain a 50 metre road for eighty people than it is to maintain a 50 metre road for one person. Another quick lesson in economics would teach you that people living in a city cost the state less, they also have less of an impact on the environment and have much smaller carbon footprints.

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

Rural areas are an after thought an awful lot of the time in this country.

That's not the case. Billions have been spent on motorways and infrastructure over the last few years. If you want to see some proper potholes drive around the North inner city of Dublin.. dozen's of much needed plans for Dublin have been shelved. The city is making cash but it's badly underfunded.

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

And don't accuse me of lacking respect or decorum.

I will, on this thread you have been disrespectful, immature and you have lacked decorum with your silly remarks, your urination threats and your childish behaviour.

dub_skav · 12-02-2014 05:19PM

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

On an individual basis a Dublin tax payer sees much more benefit from his/her takes than an individual rural dweller.

Rural areas are an after thought an awful lot of the time in this country.

And don't accuse me of lacking respect or decorum.

But did the rural area dwellers not know that when they bought /built their houses?

12-02-2014 05:23PM

dub_skav wrote: »

But did the rural area dwellers not know that when they bought /built their houses?

They did and they have to put up with it the same way people living in a city have to put up with events taking place from time to time that might impact on them. Especially people living near the 4th largest stadium in Europe.

Despite what some people appear to think, I'm not saying that measures shouldn't be put in place to ease the effect that events have on residents. What I am saying is that you can't go around cancelling events just because some people are not happy with it.

wedger · 12-02-2014 05:41PM

We live beside the stadium and we put up with upto 40 event days that cause restrictions on access/egress from our homes. Where we can't let kids go out and play, where we can't get to the shops etc etc etc. we put up with this we know this is going to happen and we do "suck it up" and get on with it. We even put up with 3, 4 or 5 concerts a year but now that's heading towards 9 (American football) and this will impinge on our work our ability to get children to from schools/crèche it will see 5 nights of our area in TOTAL LOCKDOWN with no vehicular access for hours and then the Garda Chopper hovering until about 1 am overhead. This is excessive, with no consultation with the locals. This prior consultation was agreed after the U2 concerts and proof will be produced at the meeting tonight. What croke park have done here is sell 400,000 tickets so those with tickets will seem an overwhelming force against the residents... And in the interest of public good DCC will grant the licence... Well time will tell and I'm not buying a Mon or Tues night ticket for garthy!!!

kippy · 12-02-2014 05:44PM

The residents are dead right. It appears there was an agreement in place and this has been breached without consultation.

Rough Sleeper · 12-02-2014 05:58PM

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

They would be forceably removed if necessary as they would be trespassing on private property. The streets of Dublin on the other hand are public property paid for and maintained equally by the taxes of people who live there and people who live in the most remote part of the country, of course its not equally though as Dublin would get much more than its fair share of money towards road maintenance etc while people out the country are left with roads in terrible condition.

Then croke park itself is a property owned by the GAA which concert goers are permitted to enter. Neither the streets around croke park or croke park itself can be even remotely compared to private land.

It's a thought experiment. Imagine how you'd feel if this was going on around you, then imagine how you'd feel if they were posting about on the internet, goading you, telling you you to suck it up, that you were being a bitch about it, that it wasn't a big deal, that you had 360 days of quiet for the rest of the year.

Do you not understand the difference between legality and morality? Not all illegal acts are morally wrong, and not all immoral acts are illegal.

It's not illegal to cheat on your girlfriend with 5 other chicks. It's not illegal to walk around filming strangers, and you won't get hauled up in court for bailing from the pub before you've bought your round. Nowhere in the statute book does it forbid you to tell your parents you'll be around for dinner then go on the lash without informing them. You can stand a girl up on a date because you'd rather sit at home playing video games and the cops won't do anything about it.

None of these things are illegal but they're immoral; they're really **** things to do. You're banging on about your rights; what about your responsibilities? "Yeah I'll jut leave my car here, it's all legal baby, shut up and deal with it." There are 8-year-old children with Asperger's who have a better notion of social obligation than you've displayed on this thread.

Johnny_Fontane · 12-02-2014 06:03PM

with this wind, there may not be a stadium for Gareth to play in!

weldoninhio · 12-02-2014 06:08PM

kippy wrote: »

The residents are dead right. It appears there was an agreement in place and this has been breached without consultation.

Where did this agreement appear from? Care to share it?

ProfessorPlum · 12-02-2014 06:11PM

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

They did and they have to put up with it the same way people living in a city have to put up with events taking place from time to time that might impact on them. Especially people living near the 4th largest stadium in Europe.

Despite what some people appear to think, I'm not saying that measures shouldn't be put in place to ease the effect that events have on residents. What I am saying is that you can't go around cancelling events just because some people are not happy with it.

How do you think people form opinions of others? You make it seem like you don't understand why people here think you've been rude and obnoxious. Read back on your posts. It's really fairly obvious.
And I don't recall any posts where you enthused the idea that measures should be put in place to ease the effects that events have on the residents,
so you might excuse those of us who don't see that as being your message at all.
Given that there is no license for the concerts, they are not being cancelled if they don't go ahead. So nobody is going around canceling events.

12-02-2014 06:25PM

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

It's not illegal to cheat on your girlfriend with 5 other chicks. It's not illegal to walk around filming strangers, and you won't get hauled up in court for bailing from the pub before you've bought your round. Nowhere in the statute book does it forbid you to tell your parents you'll be around for dinner then go on the lash without informing them. You can stand a girl up on a date because you'd rather sit at home playing video games and the cops won't do anything about it.

The things you have listed above are immoral, holding concerts in a stadium is not immoral.

Parking a car legally on the side of a public street is not immoral and to suggest it is is preposterous, go into the motors forum and even suggest that you have any right to the parking space outside your house on a public street and you will be laughed out of it.

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

How do you think people form opinions of others? You make it seem like you don't understand why people here think you've been rude and obnoxious. Read back on your posts. It's really fairly obvious.
And I don't recall any posts where you enthused the idea that measures should be put in place to ease the effects that events have on the residents,
so you might excuse those of us who don't see that as being your message at all.
Given that there is no license for the concerts, they are not being cancelled if they don't go ahead. So nobody is going around canceling events.

I said I'd have no problem with the concerts being earlier in the day, I agree that there should be a noise curfew at around 11pm. There should be a clean up crew around first thing in the morning to gather up rubbish each day, there should be a well implemented system where any resident living inside the cordon can pass the security in their car with a pass etc. There should be a large Garda presence on the streets to keep anti-social behavior to a minimum. I have never once said measure like these should not be in place.

I do not believe a bit of noise and disruption are valid reasons to cancel it. If they were half all the events taking place in the world would be cancelled.

Rough Sleeper · 12-02-2014 06:34PM

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

Parking a car legally on the side of a public street is not immoral and to suggest it is is preposterous, go into the motors forum and even suggest that you have any right to the parking space outside your house on a public street and you will be laughed out of it.

"Not everything that's legal is moral. Here is a list of examples:..."

"Yes, they're all immoral. But turning residential areas into temporary car parks is not. This is because it's legal."

Jaysus.

You don't have any right to a faithful partner either, you are being deliberately obtuse or spectacularly missing the point.

ProfessorPlum · 12-02-2014 06:36PM

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

I have never once said measure like these should not be in place.

The sin of omission.

Saying it is not the same thing as 'never not' saying it.

12-02-2014 06:39PM

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

"Not everything that's legal is moral. Here is a list of examples:..."

"Yes, they're all immoral. But turning residential areas into temporary car parks is not. This is because it's legal."

Jaysus.

You don't have any right to a faithful partner either, you are being deliberately obtuse or spectacularly missing the point.

Ok to be clear it's neither illegal nor immoral. You will find very very few people to entertain you in a conversation on the morality of parking legally.

I don't have any right to a faithful partner because I don't have silly ideas about parking being immoral and believe that if you live in the capital city of a country near to an 82000 seater stadium that you shouldn't expect to face disruption a couple of days a year? Nonsensical in the extreme.

Just to be clear on one thing. If I lived near Croke park I would feel that big events happening are part and parcel of living there and I would just get on with it.

FatherTed · 12-02-2014 06:43PM

Why don't the residents sue the concert promoters/GAA/DCC for breach of contract?

Rough Sleeper · 12-02-2014 06:44PM

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

Ok to be clear it's neither illegal nor immoral. You will find very very few people to entertain you in a conversation on the morality of parking legally.

I just don't get the mentality. It's very easy to make other arrangement that will mean that the residents are not so inconvenienced. I wouldn't feel right rocking up to some town and plonking my car outside whomever's house I felt like for hours, along with hundreds or thousands doing the same, knowing it would be a major pain for the locals. I don't feel it's right, therefore I don't feel it's moral.

Maybe it's a country thing, I dunno. A bit of the old Healy-Ray mentality; look out for yourself and your own, **** everyone else (especially the Dubs).

Deacon Ashy Penguin wrote: »

I don't have any right to a faithful partner because I don't have silly ideas about parking being immoral and believe that if you live in the capital city of a country near to an 82000 seater stadium that you shouldn't expect to face disruption a couple of days a year? Nonsensical in the extreme.

No, you don't have any right to a faithful partner because, uh, you don't have a right (by this rigid legalistic approach you were taking) to a faithful partner. Being within your rights to do something doesn't mean it's not an arsehole thing to do.

wedger · 12-02-2014 06:53PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Where did this agreement appear from? Care to share it?

It will all be revealed tonight at the meeting...!!! In fact I'll even publish it here after...

smileyj1987 · 12-02-2014 06:55PM

wedger wrote: »

It will all be revealed tonight at the meeting...!!! In fact I'll even publish it here after...

Yes please publish it !!!

Croke Park residents to seek concert injuctions.....your opinions?

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