Europe watches Swiss immigration vote

09-02-2014 01:49PM #1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26034566
Swiss voters are going to the polls on Sunday in a nationwide referendum on immigration which is being watched closely right across Europe.
The proposal, from the right-wing Swiss People's Party, calls on Switzerland to abandon its free movement of people treaty with the European Union and introduce strict quotas on immigration.
Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but has adopted large sections of EU policy, including free movement and the Schengen open-borders agreement, in order to have access to Europe's single market.
Brussels has always insisted that the Swiss will not be allowed to cherry-pick only the aspects of EU policy they like.
But its successful economy, and soaring unemployment in many eurozone countries, make Switzerland a very attractive destination.

This could be a very close run vote as early indications are the result at 50/50.

stimpson · 09-02-2014 02:08PM

They wouldn't be so cocky if they didn't have all that Jewish gold.

Mena · 09-02-2014 02:15PM

Is Europe really watching? Really?

09-02-2014 02:17PM

Mena wrote: »

Is Europe really watching? Really?

Well, the BBC seem to think so, I wouldn't have known about it but for the BBC News.

Mr. Incognito · 09-02-2014 02:30PM

Ireland can hardly talk when we passed a referendum to deny persons citizenship if they are born here without an Irish parent, by 80% odd in favour.

Iwasfrozen · 09-02-2014 02:31PM

The EU is right, they shouldn't be allowed to cherry pick the aspects of the EU they want to follow. If this vote goes ahead the EU should cancel their free trade agreements.

SpaceTime · 09-02-2014 02:32PM

Mena wrote: »

Is Europe really watching? Really?

The EU's certainly watching as any moves the Swiss make to restrict access to EU citizens will be responded to by similar moves by the EU for Swiss nationals as it's a bilateral agreement.

wazky · 09-02-2014 02:32PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Ireland can hardly talk

Since when did countries start talking?

Does Ireland have a nice D4 accent or one of them boggy ones?

Friend Computer · 09-02-2014 02:35PM

Good on the SVP, they've gotta keep the bloodlines pure!

fleet · 09-02-2014 02:38PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Ireland can hardly talk when we passed a referendum to deny persons citizenship if they are born here without an Irish parent, by 80% odd in favour.

If one is born here then one is entitled to citizenship; all that changed is that one's parents are not automatically granted it.

It was the most sensible solution to citizenship tourism.

thecatspjs · 09-02-2014 02:39PM

wazky wrote: »

Since when did countries start talking?

Does Ireland have a nice D4 accent or one of them boggy ones?

Boggy

Legs.Eleven · 09-02-2014 02:40PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Ireland can hardly talk when we passed a referendum to deny persons citizenship if they are born here without an Irish parent, by 80% odd in favour.

The country won't have one collective opinion on this. I don't think Ireland has said anything yet.

crockholm · 09-02-2014 03:24PM

My understanding of this would be that it is more of an issue in Germany,Italy and the other countries that border it,I know a German lad from around Lake Constance who does a lot of his work over the border in CH.

Our relative lack of proximity to CH means most are unaware of the vote in the first Place.

The Swiss are an hard-working and well educated population and I'm sure they will pick the best option.

They sure do love their referenda

stimpson · 09-02-2014 03:24PM

Friend Computer wrote: »

Good on the SVP, they've gotta keep the bloodlines pure!

I'm shocked.

St. Vincent de Paul used to be a lovely bunch.

09-02-2014 05:06PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26108597
With almost all votes counted, a Swiss referendum on whether to bring back strict immigration quotas appears to have passed by a narrow margin.
Between 50.5% and 51% voted in favour of measures which would end the Swiss-EU free movement of people agreement.
Fiercely independent Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but has adopted large sections of EU policy.
Brussels has already warned the Swiss that they cannot just choose the aspects they like.

Will be interesting to see how the EU react, will they reciprocate!

SpaceTime · 09-02-2014 05:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how the EU react, will they reciprocate!

It will mostly likely simply end it as it's a bilateral agreement and the Germans amongst others are quite irritated by Swiss banking secrecy etc anyway.

conorhal · 09-02-2014 05:16PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The EU is right, they shouldn't be allowed to cherry pick the aspects of the EU they want to follow. If this vote goes ahead the EU should cancel their free trade agreements.

Why shouldn't a soverign state that's not a member of the EU be entitled to do as it pleases with it's immigration policy?

This post is typical of the Eurotrons, it doesn't take long for them to go all EUSSR and throw around dire threats to ruin a nation's economy if they don't get their way.
All the Swiss are saying is that they would like controlled immigration and they want to place limits on the numbers coming to their country, as eh pretty much any soverign nation does. The EU is not entitled to tell any soverign state how many poeple it entitled to send there.

Amirani · 09-02-2014 05:20PM

conorhal wrote: »

Why shouldn't a soverign state that's not a member of the EU be entitled to do as it pleases with it's immigration policy?

This post is typical of the Eurotrons, it doesn't take long for them to go all EUSSR and throw around dire threats to ruin a nation's economy if they don't get their way.
All the Swiss are saying is that they would like controlled immigration and they want to place limits on the numbers coming to their country, as eh pretty much any soverign nation does. The EU is not entitled to tell any soverign state how many poeple it entitled to send there.

Nobody's saying they shouldn't have the right to do that. However, if they do do that, they can forget about free movement of Swiss goods within the EU. What entitles Switzerland to gain far more from EU policies than it gives up unlike actual members?

SpaceTime · 09-02-2014 05:24PM

Well, they've every right to make that decision and they just have.
The EU's got no obligation to grant them access to anything. It's only being rather nice and accommodating so far by even agreeing to negotiate a bilateral situation in the first place.

If they're going to treat EU citizens differently, it would seem logical that the EU would simply provide the same level of access to Swiss citizens in the EU.

There's no automatic right for any non-member to have access to the EU's single market or free movement through the EU. That's not some kind of bizarre position, it's the same as any where else.

Basically, what this means is that if you're Irish, British, German, French etc etc and living in Switzerland or want to do business or trade there, a lot has just changed for you. I don't see why we should just continue to be complete door mats about it either.

There are consequences to decisions and the EU doesn't really have to do anything. The Swiss just tore up their agreement with *us*. It's not some kind of EU conspiracy against the Swiss.

Annasopra · 09-02-2014 05:25PM

Switzerland passed it, 50.3%...mandates the government to reintroduce quotas for EU migrant workers....no more free movement of people....a victory for the conservative right that will probably, hurt Switzerland more economically than it expects in my opinion. From talking to Irish friends living in Switzerland it seems that the reality is that there are not enough Swiss people taking the skilled technical jobs, hence the 'high' level of migration.

conorhal · 09-02-2014 05:26PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

Nobody's saying they shouldn't have the right to do that. However, if they do do that, they can forget about free movement of Swiss goods within the EU. What entitles Switzerland to gain far more from EU policies than it gives up unlike actual members?

And what do trade agreements have to do with the implementation of a resaonable immigration policy exactly? Where else do trade agreements get signed that require the signees to accept unlimited immigration as part of the deal?
Should we rip up any deals with the States for example because we can't just all move there en-masse if we feel like it?

The only retort that would be reasonable would be matching visa requirements for the Swiss. Linking trade to open door immigration says alot about the Eurotrons thinking.

Arthur Beesley · 09-02-2014 05:26PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Ireland can hardly talk when we passed a referendum to deny persons citizenship if they are born here without an Irish parent, by 80% odd in favour.

How did you vote?

First Up · 09-02-2014 05:27PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

Nobody's saying they shouldn't have the right to do that. However, if they do do that, they can forget about free movement of Swiss goods within the EU. What entitles Switzerland to gain far more from EU policies than it gives up unlike actual members?

Unlikely to affect movement of goods but it could result in restriction of movement for Swiss passport holders.

Amirani · 09-02-2014 05:27PM

conorhal wrote: »

And what do trade agreements have to do with the implementation of a resaonable immigration policy exactly? Where else do trade agreements get signed that require the signees to accept unlimited immigration as part of the deal?
Should we rip up any deals with the States for example because we can't just all move there en-masse if we feel like it?

There's no free movement of US goods and labour in the EU.

You really need to read a bit more about the situation before you go spouting rhetoric for no good reason.

Amirani · 09-02-2014 05:29PM

First Up wrote: »

Unlikely to affect movement of goods but it could result in restriction of movement for Swiss passport holders.

That probably more likely, we'll have to wait and see though.

Kristopherus · 09-02-2014 05:29PM

conorhal wrote: »

Why shouldn't a soverign state that's not a member of the EU be entitled to do as it pleases with it's immigration policy?

This post is typical of the Eurotrons, it doesn't take long for them to go all EUSSR and throw around dire threats to ruin a nation's economy if they don't get their way.
All the Swiss are saying is that they would like controlled immigration and they want to place limits on the numbers coming to their country, as eh pretty much any soverign nation does. The EU is not entitled to tell any soverign state how many poeple it entitled to send there.

Correct. And is'nt Cameron threatening to do trhe same across the water. Will be interesting to see what attitude Brussels will have to that, if he goes ahead.
If Brussels threatens anything like they are to the Swiss, Cameron could very well say "I'm out".

SpaceTime · 09-02-2014 05:30PM

I honestly don't think there's all that much love of Swiss policies at EU level or at many national government level either.

It wouldn't be an entirely unreasonable position to see Switzerland as a tax haven with some rather strange banking practices that have regularly been used to frustrate EU countries (particularly Germany) when they are trying to go after all sorts of financial and banking issues.

It has been granted a huge amount of access to the EU based on an otherwise very friendly and corporative relationship. However, there's really nothing to say that the EU has to continue to be all that corporative if Switzerland isn't reciprocating.

So, I'm not sure that (particularly after the banking crisis) there'll be a huge degree of upset about their decision to walk off in a bit of a huff.

I don't really see the EU just not reacting as in any way 'bullying'.

conorhal · 09-02-2014 05:34PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

There's no free movement of US goods and labour in the EU.

You really need to read a bit more about the situation before you go spouting rhetoric for no good reason.

Where did I say that there was? My point is that no trade deal with the US requires accepting unlimited immigration. Goods are goods, people are people, except in the corporatist EU where people are goods.

CalRobert · 09-02-2014 05:36PM

fleet wrote: »

If one is born here then one is entitled to citizenship; all that changed is that one's parents are not automatically granted it.

It was the most sensible solution to citizenship tourism.

This is inaccurate; I'm here on a green card and have researched the matter out of curiosity - the child is only a citizen if the parent has three years of normal (stamp 1) residency prior to the birth.

Jus Solis was abandoned in Ireland about ten years ago, I believe.

conorhal · 09-02-2014 05:38PM

mango salsa wrote: »

Switzerland passed it, 50.3%...mandates the government to reintroduce quotas for EU migrant workers....no more free movement of people....a victory for the conservative right that will probably, hurt Switzerland more economically than it expects in my opinion. From talking to Irish friends living in Switzerland it seems that the reality is that there are not enough Swiss people taking the skilled technical jobs, hence the 'high' level of migration.

High, but not uncontrolled. Like Australia they will benefit from the ability to pick and choose those immigrants that are of use to their economy and reject those that aren't. Is that so controversial? The fact is they are likely to benefit from a policy of controlled immigration because they can take the wheat but won't have to support the chaff.

SpaceTime · 09-02-2014 05:38PM

From an Irish point of view, this is actually excellent news.

It just means we've a major selling point that the Swiss have opted to throw away and we do actually compete quite heavily with the Swiss when it comes to certain FDI projects in financial sector stuff and also in biopharma / pharma and IT.

Quick availability of a huge pool (entire EU) of technical staff and full, absolutely secure access to the world's largest market as well as being English-speaking and highly business-friendly with a similar familiar culture to the UK and US etc and a highly familiar legal system etc is actually a massive selling point.
On top of that we've extremely good air transport links, top notch international telecoms connections, proximity to London, Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt. Relatively close proximity to the Eastern US. Special agreements on pre-clearance of flights to the US (cutting time for visiting execs etc).

Add on the competitive tax regime and business-focused environment and we've quite a lot going for us.

Europe watches Swiss immigration vote

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