Child welfare groups want slapping outlawed

darkpagandeath · 07-02-2014 10:16AM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Nobody. He's pointing out that cultural changes aren't enough, you need laws.

We have them murdering anyone is already Illegal. And always has been

GarIT · 07-02-2014 10:17AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Just to point out slapping is not Illegal yet so what's your point in pointing out things that are ?

To try to explain to you why it should be illegal but you dont seem to get it.

Czarcasm · 07-02-2014 10:18AM

strobe wrote: »

Not really... replace any example I used with any anti social or violent or criminal behaviour if you like. I'm not saying slapping a child is equivalent to anything I'm addressing the OPs reasoning and his misinterpreting of the reasoning in the article. I thought that was fairly obvious... but maybe I could have bee clearer... like I say, tis early.

Ohh I'm not disputing the OP's logic was a bit, em, flawed strobe, but that was some strawman

Usually we're about five or six pages into these threads before someone introduces the whole "but what about this, this and this" type stuff.

In keeping with the OP's original idea though, you can legislate all you want against slapping children, but every adult is going to use their own judgement on what's a slap and what's just out and out walloping the child. Thing is, it's very unlikely the child is going to report their parents to the Gardai for the parent slapping them, though I have heard examples of cases where children have called Childline because their parents wouldn't get them phone credit unless they did the dishes!

The children's rights groups in this case too need to get some perspective.

anncoates · 07-02-2014 10:20AM

I doubt even if it was made law, it wouldn't be workable in the slightest. What will you do? Put thousands of people in jail for slapping their child on the arse while junkies freely roam the streets with neglected children?

Would be a better idea to give more resources and attention to children that are genuinely in danger and neglected.

GarIT · 07-02-2014 10:20AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ohh I'm not disputing the OP's logic was a bit, em, flawed strobe, but that was some strawman

Usually we're about five or six pages into these threads before someone introduces the whole "but what about this, this and this" type stuff.

In keeping with the OP's original idea though, you can legislate all you want against slapping children, but every adult is going to use their own judgement on what's a slap and what's just out and out walloping the child. Thing is, it's very unlikely the child is going to report their parents to the Gardai for the parent slapping them, though I have heard examples of cases where children have called Childline because their parents wouldn't get them phone credit unless they did the dishes!

The children's rights groups in this case too need to get some perspective.

Most children won't report it but if they do they need protection.

GarIT · 07-02-2014 10:22AM

anncoates wrote: »

I doubt even if it was made law, it wouldn't be workable in the slightest. What will you do? Put thousands of people in jail for slapping their child on the arse while junkies freely roam the streets with neglected children?

Would be a better idea to give more resources and attention to children that are genuinely in danger and neglected.

A child that is slapped is genuinely in danger and neglected. Somebody who thinks assault is ok shouldn't be near a child.

anncoates · 07-02-2014 10:25AM

GarIT wrote: »

A child that is slapped is genuinely in danger and neglected

Utter hysterical bollocks and insulting to genuine victims of assault and abuse.

And I'm somebody that doesn't think corporal punishment is of much use.

dogslife2014 · 07-02-2014 10:27AM

The Irish are fast becoming obsessed with political correctness; slapping a child is generally now considered inappropriate and in some cases described as abuse, yet drinking excessively 5-7 nights a week is quiet normal and drink driving is not uncommon-we're a nation of hypocrites.

jank · 07-02-2014 10:27AM

Are we talking like, physical abuse here or a light slap (is it even that) on that ass?
The former is illegal not sure why we need the state passing more laws trying to govern parents in raising their kids. Perhaps the state should look closer to home in how they way they have treated children the past few decades and stop trying to infest the rest of society with their ivory tower pseudo sociological nonsense progressive practices.

truedoom · 07-02-2014 10:28AM

theres a difference between giving a child a slap when they're acting up, and battering them.

It seems this is considered one and the same?

I got a few smacks with the wooden spoon as a child, when i was being a little ****e, and i'm better for it.

07-02-2014 10:28AM

Completely off topic, years ago someone was telling my that their child was having a melt down over something and got very angry with the parent and said you are so mean I am phoning child line on you, and quick as a flash the parent said go ahead and when you are finished with the phone I am phoning parents under stress!.

This is one of those table tennis topic it will just go back and forth with no real consensus. I am against slapping children it is completely unnecessary, but I am also against legislation outlawing it.

Triangla · 07-02-2014 10:31AM

Rights are rules for people that we as a people have agreed upon.

No rights are 'God given'.

Smacking a child to discipline them should not be seen as a violation of any kind of eventual childrens rights.

There have been abuse cases where kids were beaten severely, horrible cases of neglect.

That is a world away from giving little Timmy a slap on the a$$ because he's screaming for a kinder egg in Tesco.

No Pants · 07-02-2014 10:35AM

eireannBEAR wrote: »

Anyone who requires the use of a hand to parent their child has some form of mental deficiency

Grand. I'll tell my parents and all my aunts and uncles that they are mentally deficient. :rolleyes:

tin79 · 07-02-2014 10:35AM

GarIT wrote: »

if I spanked my wife(without her permission) I would end up in jail

Really, you think so? I doubt it.

GarIT · 07-02-2014 10:36AM

Can somebody explain why it is ok to slap a child with an equal amount of force that would land me in jail if it was anyone else? If light slaps are ok make them legal I wanna spank everyone here that disagrees with me, why can't I?

GarIT · 07-02-2014 10:37AM

tin79 wrote: »

Really, you think so? I doubt it.

If she complained about it I would. If you disagree an explanation would be good, it is illegal after all.

tin79 · 07-02-2014 10:37AM

dogslife2014 wrote: »

The Irish are fast becoming obsessed with political correctness; slapping a child is generally now considered inappropriate and in some cases described as abuse, yet drinking excessively 5-7 nights a week is quiet normal and drink driving is not uncommon-we're a nation of hypocrites.

Try to focus on one topic at a time. You will make more sense that way.

Frank Lee Midere · 07-02-2014 10:38AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

We have them murdering anyone is already Illegal. And always has been

That's not what is being argued. Try and comprehend the arguments against your position before you make them.

tin79 · 07-02-2014 10:40AM

GarIT wrote: »

If she complained about it I would.

No you wouldn't. For an unsolicited spanking of your wife...end up in prison? Can you imagine what she would say to the Guards. He spanked me without consent officer! Oh and he kissed me the other night without asking permission. Lock him up.
Ok if you beat her with a bat maybe .. but spanking. Sure I do that for fun.

Czarcasm · 07-02-2014 10:41AM

GarIT wrote: »

Most children won't report it but if they do they need protection.

From whom, themselves? Try this scenario for size -

Child calls the local police station saying they'd like to report an assault because their mother tried to make them eat their greens. You see how quickly you can lose perspective? Are we also to charge children with assaulting each other for horseplay?

GarIT wrote: »

A child that is slapped is genuinely in danger and neglected. Somebody who thinks assault is ok shouldn't be near a child.

Remember that sense of perspective I talked about earlier? I slapped my child, are you going to have Gardai and social workers call round to my house now and tell me the child can't be staying in that environment, they'll be better off in the care of the state in a foster home instead. Or would you have them escort me away in handcuffs?

That's exactly what you're advocating when you have all these righteous notions and fluffy ideas but expect everyone else to do the ground work.

ElleEm · 07-02-2014 10:41AM

Triangla wrote: »

That is a world away from giving little Timmy a slap on the a$$ because he's screaming for a kinder egg in Tesco.

So if you slap your wife/ husband when they want a bottle of red in Tesco and you don't, that's okay? Or if you spot them having a biscuit before dinner, or if they say "no" when you ask them to make the bed? WHY is it okay to hit a child to "teach" them when it is not okay to hit an adult.

No Pants · 07-02-2014 10:41AM

Okay, make it illegal. What's the penalty going to be for smacking a child?

GarIT · 07-02-2014 10:41AM

tin79 wrote: »

Try to focus on one topic at a time. You will make more sense that way.

Males sense to me, wasn't hard to understand either, I don't get why you can't understand it.

I am seeing a correlation between posts which are written well and one side of the argument.

07-02-2014 10:43AM

GarIT wrote: »

Can somebody explain why it is ok to slap a child with an equal amount of force that would land me in jail if it was anyone else? If light slaps are ok make them legal I wanna spank everyone here that disagrees with me, why can't I?

Because life is not as simple as that, parents are not slapping their children because they have a legal right to, parent who do, they do it for a variety of reasons the biggest one being that they don't possess the skill to deal with a situation any other way, of course culture, laziness ect plays a part but mostly it is cause by parents being under stress.

You can not legislated for good parenting.

dogslife2014 · 07-02-2014 10:46AM

Smoking around kids is abuse on a far bigger scale

eireannBEAR · 07-02-2014 10:49AM

No Pants wrote: »

Grand. I'll tell my parents and all my aunts and uncles that they are mentally deficient. :rolleyes:

Some might argue they were,they lacked knowledge on these issues and TBF most of their generation were completely ignorant to child safety.

tin79 · 07-02-2014 10:50AM

GarIT wrote: »

Males sense to me, wasn't hard to understand either, I don't get why you can't understand it.

I am seeing a correlation between posts which are written well and one side of the argument.

I didn't see the relevance of comparing child slapping to people drinking as a relevant comparison and then using that to assert that Ireland is therefore a nation of hypocrites. If you must know. But you are just nitpicking my posts now because I didn't agree with your own so I am probably wasting time explaining.

Czarcasm · 07-02-2014 10:51AM

GarIT wrote: »

Can somebody explain why it is ok to slap a child with an equal amount of force that would land me in jail if it was anyone else? If light slaps are ok make them legal I wanna spank everyone here that disagrees with me, why can't I?

And that's exactly the kind of language and logic these children's rights groups are using, and that's exactly why nobody in authority is going to take them seriously. You know well "an equal amount of force" is not what we're talking about here, but even if you were to slap another adult with "an amount of force" as most people would slap a child, the other adult could possibly get cautioned for wasting police time!

anncoates · 07-02-2014 10:55AM

GarIT wrote: »

Can somebody explain why it is ok to slap a child with an equal amount of force that would land me in jail if it was anyone else?

Both cases would be assault, which is already catered for in the law?

I'm no cheerleader for smacking children but all you have as a tactic is to try and emotionally conflate smacking with assault.

Bacchus · 07-02-2014 11:00AM

GarIT wrote: »

If I punched you it wouldn't do you any harm you would remember in 20 years time. Assault is abuse, if I spanked my 18 year old son or my wife(without her permission) I would end up in jail, but I can do it to a child no bother, that's insane.

A punch is not the same thing as a slap. Don't change the scale of the action to suit your argument.

I'm talking about a single slap to bum to re-enforce to a child that their action is not acceptable. I saw a woman slap her child yesterday for picking up something at a shop. No explanation to the child or anything. I don't agree with that (what exactly did the child learn) but slapping can be an effect tool when used properly. The problem is poor parenting, not the slap. Why should I (a hopefully one day good parent) be restricted from discipling my child in the way I see fit because the PC brigade think I'm a child beater for doing it?

As for slapping another adult, that's a different matter. The distinction for me is the intent. You slap an adult, you're not trying to educate or discipline that person, you are engaging in an act of violence. There is also a lot of room for interpretation in your 'scenario' so it's hard to compare to the specific act of using a slap to discipline your child.

Btw, I'm not saying some parents don't hit their children out of violence (and that is awful of course) but to make it illegal for all parents to even give a single slap to their child who they are trying to raise as a responsible, respectful human being is ridiculous.

Child welfare groups want slapping outlawed

Comments