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Iona vs Panti

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Comments

  • #1232
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    You might get the settlement amounts and some of the internal non legal discussions though.

    Would be no harm in putting a few in and seeing what comes back.


  • #1233
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Heh, tweet from Panti:
    Yoghurt for breakfast.
    Wrote some e mails.
    Message from Madonna about my speech.
    Walked the dog.
    WAIT WHAT?


  • #1234
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Makes you wonder which side the Lord above is on.....


  • #1235
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Sarky wrote: »
    Heh, tweet from Panti:

    Rory has a Jack Russell.

    :D


  • #1236
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Rory has a Jack Russell.

    :D

    Calls it Paddy, cause it yaps like Paddy? :)


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  • #1237
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Calls it Paddy, cause it yaps like Paddy? :)

    Never met a self hating jack russell....


  • #1238
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Sarky wrote: »
    Heh, tweet from Panti:

    What's Panti's twitter name?
    I want to give a follow.


  • #1239
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,758 ✭✭✭weisses


    If you think according to their logic I wouldn't be surprised if RTE will look for compensation from Rory O' Neill


  • #1240
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    What's Panti's twitter name?
    I want to give a follow.

    @PantiBliss


  • #1241
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    What's Panti's twitter name?
    I want to give a follow.
    https://twitter.com/PantiBliss


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  • #1242
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,047 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Graham Norton
    Ru Paul
    Stephen Fry
    Madonna....that's a fair oul weeks work!


  • #1243
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Is Rory an NUI or TCD graduate?
    I think it's time Panti stood for a Seanad seat as well as maybe giving it a go for a Dail seat. Just wondering if he would be eligible for the university panel...

    He's an outstanding orator who would be a great boost to either house!


  • #1244
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    Oh, and we might have to ask the fine fellows over in Legal Discussion but isn't the onus in a libel trial on the defendant to prove their allegations, not on the litigant to prove they are not as alleged?
    So in court it would be a case of RTE having to prove Iona are homophobic rather than Iona having to prove they are not.
    Subtle different there but afaik that's why Britain is the destination for a lot of libel tourism.


  • #1245
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    The libel law we inherited doesn't sit well with the idea of a liberal democratic republic.

    It was invented to protect the establishment in English law.


  • #1246
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    From today's Examiner
    Free but constrained, almost equal but sometimes afraid, and most ashamed of all of constantly “checking myself”. Homophobia is a stigmatisation and a shame visited upon and carried by every gay man and woman who has not overcome their history, their memory, a continuing legacy in our law and a wider one in our culture. It is almost gone, apparently invisible on the surface, but remains rooted in the psyche. Self-checking is the symptom, even where overt evidence is absent, of a culture and an atmosphere where “don’t ask – don’t tell”, nod but don’t wink, is an effective requirement to ‘pass’ unimpeded in Ireland. On the main stage of the Abbey Theatre, Panti Bliss stood by the republic.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/guest-columnist/homophobia-controversy-left-rte-sidelined-as-abbey-stepped-in-257627.html#.UvHrtvyj-is.facebook


    The Battle Lines have well an truly formed.

    On one side we have the forces of conservatism. Fighting a rearguard action to stem the tide of inclusiveness and good ol European style liberalism.

    On the other we have the previously disenfranchised within Irish society who are sick of being a little less equal, sick of the nudge nudge wink wink don't ask don't tell don't get above yourself or you will be put back in your box Ireland.

    One side is lead by a cabal of fundamentalist Catholics styling itself an Institution whose funding is a bit of a mystery.

    The other by a middle aged Drag Queen from Mayo who has found herself becoming an accidental figurehead because she dared to say how it feels to live in Ireland in the 21st century.

    Ireland - The World is Watching...


  • #1247
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Is Rory an NUI or TCD graduate?
    I think it's time Panti stood for a Seanad seat as well as maybe giving it a go for a Dail seat. Just wondering if he would be eligible for the university panel...

    He's an outstanding orator who would be a great boost to either house!
    You don't need to be a graduate of anywhere to be a candidate for the university panels

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1248
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Memo also says:
    "that such a defence is unlikely to succeed before a jury."

    Now why do you think that is?
    Because legal advice isn't purely on the merits of the case, and even less so on the basis of right and wrong. It's more so a cost/benefit analysis-cum-risk assessment.

    The process might go something like this: let's suppose that there's a fifty-fifty chance of the jury finding either for or against RTE. If they find against the station, the cost will be €xxx plus some hefty legal bills on both sides. If they find for the station, we'll simplistically assume that there are no costs (this is not a safe assumption, but let's assume it for the moment).

    The calculus of the decision is: there's a fifty percent chance of an enormous cost to us, so let's compare fifty percent of that enormous cost to the cost of an ex gratia payment: it's clear that the ex gratia payment is the cheaper option.

    Let's imagine that the total cost of a payout would be €100k including legal costs. On the basis of a fifty percent chance of having to pay, the conclusion might be to take a chance on a day in court. On the other hand, if the likely total cost is five million, then even with a mere ten percent chance of having to pay out, it's probably cheaper to just cave in without a fight.

    I know the answer you were looking for is "because the claimants were defamed", but the actual answer is "because you can't depend on a jury not to find that the claimants were defamed, so on balance it's a cheaper option not to defend the claim".


  • #1249
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,591 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Because legal advice isn't purely on the merits of the case, and even less so on the basis of right and wrong. It's more so a cost/benefit analysis-cum-risk assessment.

    The process might go something like this: let's suppose that there's a fifty-fifty chance of the jury finding either for or against RTE. If they find against the station, the cost will be €xxx plus some hefty legal bills on both sides. If they find for the station, we'll simplistically assume that there are no costs (this is not a safe assumption, but let's assume it for the moment).

    The calculus of the decision is: there's a fifty percent chance of an enormous cost to us, so let's compare fifty percent of that enormous cost to the cost of an ex gratia payment: it's clear that the ex gratia payment is the cheaper option.

    Let's imagine that the total cost of a payout would be €100k including legal costs. On the basis of a fifty percent chance of having to pay, the conclusion might be to take a chance on a day in court. On the other hand, if the likely total cost is five million, then even with a mere ten percent chance of having to pay out, it's probably cheaper to just cave in without a fight.

    I know the answer you were looking for is "because the claimants were defamed", but the actual answer is "because you can't depend on a jury not to find that the claimants were defamed, so on balance it's a cheaper option not to defend the claim".

    From http://irishbarrister.com/defamation.html
    Damages in a defamation case may be high enough to put a media organisation out of business - even before considering the matter of legal costs. Because of the high risk of defending a defamation action, the unpredictability of juries and the heavy legal costs of a hearing, the majority of libel cases have traditionally been settled before coming to court.


  • #1250
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Is Rory an NUI or TCD graduate?
    I think it's time Panti stood for a Seanad seat as well as maybe giving it a go for a Dail seat. Just wondering if he would be eligible for the university panel...

    He's an outstanding orator who would be a great boost to either house!

    Went to Dún Laoghaire Art college.


  • #1251
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    The real eye-opener is that great piece in the Examiner on politics, homophobia and history of drag queens in protest was written by a guy who has previously contributed to the Irish Catholic on the dangers of militant secularism.

    If Iona have lost, and Panti has actively won over, the likes of him.....

    P.


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  • #1252
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Went to Dún Laoghaire Art college.

    Think he would be a great asset to the Oireachtas though!

    I think Rory and Panti have actually won over a lot of Irish hearts and minds.
    (Well beyond the LGBT community too)


  • #1253
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    Graham Norton
    Ru Paul
    Stephen Fry
    Madonna....that's a fair oul weeks work!

    And Alan Cumming: https://twitter.com/Alancumming/status/430859101124718592


  • #1254
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    The thing is that Panti is actually saying something that resonates with everyone who has been oppressed or bullied by 'the powers that be'.

    That's a hell of a lot of people!

    How many people on this forum for example are subtly discriminated against for being atheists ?

    Women, people from 'bad' aread, divorcées, single parents, people from non-mainstream religions, immigrants, ethnic minorities.... etc etc


  • #1255
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Think he would be a great asset to the Oireachtas though!

    I think Rory and Panti have actually won over a lot of Irish hearts and minds.
    (Well beyond the LGBT community too)

    The Oireachtas in it's current incarnation is a waste of space.

    I didn't want Norris to be President because it would have silenced him. We need him angry and uncensored.

    Just like we need Panti free to say it like she sees it out among the ordinary people of Ireland not sitting in that talking shop as an independent or whipped back bencher.


  • #1256
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    The Oireachtas in it's current incarnation is a waste of space.

    I didn't want Norris to be President because it would have silenced him. We need him angry and uncensored.

    Just like we need Panti free to say it like she sees it out among the ordinary people of Ireland not sitting in that talking shop as an independent or whipped back bencher.

    I don't agree really : see Norris, Ross, Daly, Crown etc all use the oireachtas extremely effectively and are absolutely not silent on anything ever.

    It also shields them from libel laws when they're making statements about things than need to be highlighted.

    I don't think Panti will be joining Fine Gael or Fianna Fail for a life as a whipped backbencher...

    The big parties structures and whips are the major problem.


  • #1257
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    I don't agree really : see Norris, Ross, Daly, Crown etc all use the oireachtas extremely effectively and are absolutely not silent on anything ever.

    It also shields them from libel laws when they're making statements about things than need to be highlighted.

    They can talk - but thanks to the way the system is set up that is about all they can do.

    Panti achieved more in one interview on a crap late night talk show then all the speeches in either house put together.

    Norris didn't get the legalisation of homosexuality by speechifying in the Senate - he did it by taking direct action.


  • #1258
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    The thing is that Panti is actually saying something that resonates with everyone who has been oppressed or bullied by 'the powers that be'.

    That's a hell of a lot of people!

    Pretty sure it's everyone. While part of the speech made me consider some little things I do here and there I hadn't really thought of as homophobic, other parts reminded me of my being singled out for a variety of reasons and casual discrimination. Not nearly to the degree that gay people deal with of course, but still, I think there's something in that speech for everyone. And that's a hell of a thing.


  • #1259
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    They can talk - but thanks to the way the system is set up that is about all they can do.

    Panti achieved more in one interview on a crap late night talk show then all the speeches in either house put together.

    Norris didn't get the legalisation of homosexuality by speechifying in the Senate - he did it by taking direct action.

    Get your point but it should be remembered that Panti was facilitated by Senator Fiach McConghaile, who seems to be making sure that at least one 'national' institution is fearless.


  • #1260
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I think it's absolutely vital though that Rory knows that lots of people are standing right behind him.

    The internet is great for speeding that process up!


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  • #1261
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    The Battle Lines have well and truly formed
    They might indeed have formed, but while the far larger and younger army is standing ready for combat, the other army chose to open its campaign by directing their most fearless keyboard warriors to take a blind, running leap onto a high horse, only to see them fly over the top and into a huge pile of stinky horse poo.

    My eyes are watering at the thought, and mostly with laughter.


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