Pssst! Houses - they're cool, and scarce....Oh Yeah!ssshhh!

handlemaster · 02-02-2014 07:34PM

It takes 10 yrs from bust to boom again in the property market..... all price rises andllevelling out is all part of the cycle. If you have the cash buy in Dublin.

Gehad_JoyRider · 02-02-2014 07:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, what flexibility? If you suddenly had less money there's not much cheaper to rent than that. If you suddenly had more money while renting you can move. If you suddenly had more money having bought the house you can still move.

I'm not saying that you do.

You know you make buying a house sound, as easy as buying a car. When its anything but you have to find some one to bye your old space!

But your logic is not logic, it sounds more idiotic then logical. Again the same idiotic mentality that got the country into the mess that its in!

02-02-2014 07:39PM

Gehad_JoyRider wrote: »

You know you make buying a house sound, as easy as buying a car. When its anything but you have to find some one to bye your old space!

What?

But your logic is not logic, it sounds more idiotic then logical. Again the same idiotic mentality that got the country into the mess that its in!

You're deliberately misrepresenting what I've said, well done.

cmssjone · 02-02-2014 07:40PM

Gehad_JoyRider wrote: »

I dont get this buying a house is cheeper then renting :eek: how is it cheeper your balls are nailed to the wall. you have to come up with the beans. YOu loose any flxability with in your future for what a house? really is it that critical to buy?

By buying we have lowered our cost in that our mortgage repayments < rental payments. Whilst people may rightly state that renting allows flexibility should circumstances change, buying a house affords you an asset at the end of the mortgage term that renting does not yield. Also the fact that I am not at the whim of some landlord makes me sleep a little easier at night.

Femme_Fatale · 02-02-2014 07:43PM

Meh, some people can afford to take out a mortgage - so they do so. No biggie.

Gummy Panda · 02-02-2014 07:49PM

Isn't the rental price issue in Dublin due to rental property being seized by the banks and trying to sell rather then rent out so causing a shortage?

anncoates · 02-02-2014 07:52PM

To be fair, most people of a certain age with kids, careers and whatnot are not that flexible whether or not they're renting or own a house.

Being 'flexible' often appears to equate to a state of mind rather than actually what people appear to do in real life which is stay in one area/place they like.

Frank Lee Midere · 02-02-2014 07:57PM

Damon Muscular Mound wrote: »

I can't wait to buy myself and will be doing so asap. Now is the time prices are already on the rise and I want to get in before they go up again. I will probably buy initially somewhere that I don't plan on living long term but it sure beats paying rent and protects you from price rises also.

This is unbelievable nonsense. We've just seen the entire world economy nearly collapse because of this attitude - not 20 years ago, but a few years ago - and here it is again.

Frank Lee Midere · 02-02-2014 07:59PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Meh, some people can afford to take out a mortgage - so they do so. No biggie.

Except that isn't what has happened recently is it? There are 17% of people not making repayments on existing loans. They took out mortgages they clearly could not afford long term.

Frank Lee Midere · 02-02-2014 08:03PM

handlemaster wrote: »

It takes 10 yrs from bust to boom again in the property market..... all price rises andllevelling out is all part of the cycle. If you have the cash buy in Dublin.

Or don't. Because this is a mini bubble backed up by banks sitting on property rather than any change in the fundamentals. Ireland is still in massive debt - private and public debt - people are not paying loans which in most countries would lead to repossession, credit is squeezed and it is merely the existence of some cash buyers which breathed life in the corpse for a few months.

02-02-2014 08:04PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Or don't. Because this is a mini bubble backed up by banks sitting on property rather than any change in the fundamentals. Ireland is still in massive debt - private and public debt - people are not paying loans which in most countries would lead to repossession, credit is squeezed and it is merely the existence of some cash buyers which breathed life in the corpse for a few months.

How much further do you expect prices to fall?

anncoates · 02-02-2014 08:04PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

This is unbelievable nonsense. We've just seen the entire world economy nearly collapse because of this attitude - not 20 years ago, but a few years ago - and here it is again.

While I don't necessarily disagree, what makes you think Irish people should be immune to property cycles that are a fixture in most societies.

Some Irish people seem to think that the fact we had a property crash means that there will never be rises again yet ironically most of them are waiting for "the bottom" to get a property themselves.

sirbob · 02-02-2014 08:06PM

I think a lot of these problems could be solved if the price of renting was regulated like it is in Germany

Femme_Fatale · 02-02-2014 08:07PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Except that isn't what has happened recently is it?

But I'm talking about when it does?

Stavros Murphy · 02-02-2014 08:08PM

Also, for everyone renting..there's a lad on the other side paying a mortgage with your rent..and making a bit extra too. So, how the feck is renting cheaper?? That always puzzled me, the notion that renting is cheaper. I buy a house using a mortgage, I rent it to you, you pay me, I pay the mortgage and keep the leftover for myself. You're buying me my house...not me, personally obviously, but the landlord.

UCDVet · 02-02-2014 08:09PM

I kept hearing about this housing market crash, but to be honest, I haven't seen any evidence of it....as silly as that sounds.

I rent in Dublin and the rents keep going up and up. Places that were 900 a year or two ago are now asking 1100-1200 and they've got armies of people fighting for the opportunity.

I've got co-workers who are trying to buy and, despite thinking they'd be able to grab a nice place at a good price, they've found fierce competition for anything that comes up on the market. They're offering above asking and still getting turned down.

I'm not really smart enough to keep up with the economics behind it all, but all I know is that my paycheck stays the same while the prices of everything goes up. Got my first paycheck of the year, higher taxes! UPC is increasing their bill, Dublin Bus has announced it's annual increase, insurance premiums are up too, ESB raised their rates too, and we've added LPT, outlawed bedsits, AND we've got the water meters and a new household based RTE tax coming! And from what I can see, absolutely no sign of the trend changing.

02-02-2014 08:11PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Also, for everyone renting..there's a lad on the other side paying a mortgage with your rent..and making a bit extra too. So, how the feck is renting cheaper?? That always puzzled me, the notion that renting is cheaper. I buy a house using a mortgage, I rent it to you, you pay me, I pay the mortgage and keep the leftover for myself. You're buying me my house...not me, personally obviously, but the landlord.

That's a very, very silly generalisation.

sirbob · 02-02-2014 08:14PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I kept hearing about this housing market crash, but to be honest, I haven't seen any evidence of it....as silly as that sounds.

I rent in Dublin and the rents keep going up and up. Places that were 900 a year or two ago are now asking 1100-1200 and they've got armies of people fighting for the opportunity.

I've got co-workers who are trying to buy and, despite thinking they'd be able to grab a nice place at a good price, they've found fierce competition for anything that comes up on the market. They're offering above asking and still getting turned down.

dublin is in its own little property bubble due to the high number of people living and working in the area you go over to the west and you'll see the evidence of it. you can rent 4 bedroom houses over there for 5-600 a month

Stavros Murphy · 02-02-2014 08:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a very, very silly generalisation.

splain please. I'm all ears.

02-02-2014 08:40PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

splain please. I'm all ears.

Do you think that every landlord is making a weekly/monthly profit?

KyussBishop · 02-02-2014 08:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It will take a lot of interference in the market by the government to encourage another bubble. Our current population migration doesn't support the idea of a bubble any time soon.
How do you see a bubble forming soon? Releasing the properties currently being held back won't start a bubble, holding them back and absorbing more losses won't increase employment levels or confidence in the market. Unless the banks suddenly find massive reserves that they can start lending (from where?) I really don't see where a bubble is going to come from.
Also what measures should be taken to prevent a bubble in general terms?

KyussBishop wrote: »

It doesn't take any government action at all - bubbles are spurred by the growth of lax lending practices bidding up house prices; we don't have that at the moment I don't believe (just a shortage of supply of houses), but there aren't really any effective reforms in place to prevent it.

As to measures to be taken: Properly regulate banks so they do not have the ability to extend excessive loans again, and engage in widescale banking reform and fraud investigation/prosecution to deter similar excessive loans as there was pre-crisis.

KyussBishop · 02-02-2014 08:54PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Meh, some people can afford to take out a mortgage - so they do so. No biggie.

If people can afford it, grand, but if a bubble starts to get blown, then people that can afford it today, may suddenly be unable to afford it should a new bubble burst and harm the economy.

Many of the people who took out mortgages pre-crisis, could afford it, until the bubble burst.

So the issue isn't mortgages/buying-property, it's the potential for the market to start turning into a new bubble.

NegativeCreep · 02-02-2014 08:55PM

Is this the most annoying thread title ever? I'm gonna go ahead and say yes.

IvaBigWun · 02-02-2014 09:04PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm convinced that Irish people's obsession with property is a historical ghost of the fact that in the not too distant past, we either couldn't own it or were persecuted for owning it. As such, I believe it's deeply ingrained in the Irish psyche and an economic crisis lasting a decade won't be enough to undo something with roots that are hundreds of years old.

For you good sir

Stavros Murphy · 02-02-2014 09:07PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Is this the most annoying thread title ever? I'm gonna go ahead and say yes.

quit being negative and creepy ffs. It's a great thread title. Probably the best thread title using those exact words, ever.

Stavros Murphy · 02-02-2014 09:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you think that every landlord is making a weekly/monthly profit?

Every - No. Many, many, many - Yes.

02-02-2014 09:16PM

KyussBishop wrote: »

As to measures to be taken: Properly regulate banks so they do not have the ability to extend excessive loans again, and engage in widescale banking reform and fraud investigation/prosecution to deter similar excessive loans as there was pre-crisis.

There's probably enough regulation as is, oversight is all that's needed. Oversight can't happen until there's something to oversee.

KyussBishop wrote: »

If people can afford it, grand, but if a bubble starts to get blown, then people that can afford it today, may suddenly be unable to afford it should a new bubble burst and harm the economy.

Many of the people who took out mortgages pre-crisis, could afford it, until the bubble burst.

So the issue isn't mortgages/buying-property, it's the potential for the market to start turning into a new bubble.

Ya think? Someone who bought in the mid-90s could probably still afford a mortgage now if they're on the dole even.

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Every - No. Many, many, many - Yes.

Oh look at that, not everyone has the same circumstances, fancy that! There'll always be differing circumstances for people, straight after a crash and massive fall in property prices is when it's more likely there'll be people making losses on properties they're renting out.

KyussBishop · 02-02-2014 09:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There's probably enough regulation as is, oversight is all that's needed. Oversight can't happen until there's something to oversee.

No - banks need to be regulated so they don't pump up a property bubble with excessive loans....

The laws/regulations need to be in place, to put the responsibility firmly in the banks hands, to keep a lid on loans, so they don't become excessive - banks are not to be allowed shirk all their risks onto the state; that's what landed us with this massive debt and economic destruction, with barely any accountability on the part of the banks.

02-02-2014 09:25PM

KyussBishop wrote: »

No - banks need to be regulated so they don't pump up a property bubble with excessive loans....

The laws/regulations need to be in place, to put the responsibility firmly in the banks hands, to keep a lid on loans, so they don't become excessive - banks are not to be allowed shirk all their risks onto the state; that's what landed us with this massive debt and economic destruction, with barely any accountability on the part of the banks.

What kind of regulations then? There was evidence beforehand if anyone wanted to look for it of what was happening.

KyussBishop · 02-02-2014 09:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What kind of regulations then? There was evidence beforehand if anyone wanted to look for it of what was happening.

I'm not going to detail regulations so you can engage in a nitpicking exercise, so you can remain forever 'unconvinced' - if you claim it is not possible to put regulations in place, to stop banks putting out excessive loans, make that clear and explain exactly why you think it is not possible.

If you don't make that claim, then you don't have any argument against having proper regulations in place, for ensuring banks don't give out excessive loans.

Pssst! Houses - they're cool, and scarce....Oh Yeah!ssshhh!

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