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Iona vs Panti

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Comments

  • #662
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Links234 wrote: »
    Only one side of the debate has attempted to silence people, and that is Iona and Waters.



    I hope you're actually being genuine here, because I find it hard to believe you're this oblivious to the topic of discussion, but anyway...

    http://collegetribune.ie/index.php/2012/08/gay-marriage-is-a-product-of-this-bunker-mentality/

    Been given to him a few times but Clare Daly being a propagandist is a far greater issue for him. :P


  • #663
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    BB did give a definition of Homophobia a few pages back:
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    If they are saying that gay relationships are invalid then I would say that this is homophobia.

    And given that John Waters said:
    Gay marriage is a satire…

    He's a homophobe according to BB.


  • #664
    rughdh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 278 ✭✭rughdh


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Alternatively you could just provide the evidence that RTE's legal department didn't possess that proves Waters is a homophobe.

    This is all rhetoric, in my humblest of opinions. "Homophobe" is a virtually meaningless word, or at least a very badly defined one. "A person who fears/hates sameness, perhaps?"

    This is a simple case of trying to shut a person up for pointing out that there is a shed load of discrimination hurled at them on a daily basis and much of that is by people who have no excuse given their level of formal education.

    This has backfired big time and I won't shut up until married gay couples, either of whom are permitted to be a president of this country or high court judge can drink in an Irish bar on Good Friday or Christmas Day.

    And don't get me started on how on or off topic this is. I'm mad as hell and I'm not taking this ****e anymore!!!


  • #665
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    maybe someone can explain to me what the issue was since no-one actually said 'john waters is a homophobe'.
    They did, Rory (can't remember his second name) did so. Read the transcript that is linked to in this thread.


  • #666
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    King Mob wrote: »
    BB did give a definition of Homophobia a few pages back:


    And given that John Waters said:


    He's a homophobe according to BB.

    Can you explain the difference between a "relationship" and a "marriage"?


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  • #667
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    They did, Rory (can't remember his second name) did so. Read the transcript that is linked to in this thread.

    Rory never said "John Waters is a homophobe".

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #668
    AerynSun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭AerynSun


    GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »
    ... he has a point in surfacing the Pythonesque quality of the debate.

    Because he has a python, while the lesbians 'playing house' don't? :rolleyes:


  • #669
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Can you explain the difference between a "relationship" and a "marriage"?
    There is none save a legal document.

    Can you explain the difference that means saying that gay marriages are a satire isn't homophobic?

    What about the rest of the interview where he claims that gay marriages are damaging? Is that not homophobic?

    Also:
    Drunk with liberal hubris, have we reinvented the wheel of life, deciding that two lesbians playing House can trump the claims of the forces that create human life?
    Please explain how comparing a persons relationship to "playing house" is not the very definition of saying it is invalid.


  • #670
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    SW wrote: »
    Rory never said "John Waters is a homophobe".

    Shhh, can't let the truth get in the way of a good thread derailing.


  • #671
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Links234 wrote: »
    Only one side of the debate has attempted to silence people, and that is Iona and Waters.



    I hope you're actually being genuine here, because I find it hard to believe you're this oblivious to the topic of discussion, but anyway...

    http://collegetribune.ie/index.php/2012/08/gay-marriage-is-a-product-of-this-bunker-mentality/



    Not to mention many other of his comments, the vile comment about "Lesbians playing house", etc. Yes, there is a pattern here, yes John Waters has repeatedly make similar statements about how marriage equality will bring about destruction, unfounded nonsense that is essentially fearmongering and drumming up hatred, you would agree?

    That gives some indications of possible homophobia, not anymore than this in my opinion. He is giving his opinion about marriage and the gay lobby; not gay people per se.

    It's hardly conclusive. Is this really the best evidence of such an awful accusation?


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  • #672
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    stating that "gays want to destroy the institution of marriage" isn't homophobia? Exactly what sort of statement would meet your litmus test for homophobia out of curiosity?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #673
    vitani
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭vitani


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    That gives some indications of possible homophobia, not anymore than this in my opinion. He is giving his opinion about marriage and the gay lobby; not gay people per se.

    It's hardly conclusive. Is this really the best evidence of such an awful accusation?

    Seriously. What do you believe homophobia actually is?


  • #674
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    King Mob wrote: »
    There is none save a legal document.

    Can you explain the difference that means saying that gay marriages are a satire isn't homophobic?

    What about the rest of the interview where he claims that gay marriages are damaging? Is that not homophobic?
    No difference between a relationship and a marriage? :pac:

    People can be opposed to gay marriage for reasons that are logical in their opinion and it can have nothing to do with any homophobia.

    This is what everyone seems to be ignoring and instead would rather make this a thought crime.


  • #675
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    SW wrote: »
    stating that "gays want to destroy the institution of marriage" isn't homophobia? Exactly what sort of statement would meet your litmus test for homophobia out of curiosity?
    Are we talking about statements or people?

    A homophobic statement is different to a homophobic person.


  • #676
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    No difference between a relationship and a marriage? :pac:

    People can be opposed to gay marriage for reasons that are logical in their opinion and it can have nothing to do with any homophobia.

    This is what everyone seems to be ignoring and instead would rather make this a thought crime.

    got any examples?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #677
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Pretty big turnout


  • #678
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Are we talking about statements or people?

    A homophobic statement is different to a homophobic person.

    both. Waters can't go around issuing homophobic statements and avoid being labelled a homophobe while doing so.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #679
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    No difference between a relationship and a marriage? :pac:

    People can be opposed to gay marriage for reasons that are logical in their opinion and it can have nothing to do with any homophobia.

    This is what everyone seems to be ignoring and instead would rather make this a thought crime.
    But he is saying that gay people enjoying the same rights as straight people isn't valid. It's a satire.
    That meets your definition of a homophobic comment.
    As does describing a gay relationship as "playing house".

    If these are not homophobic comments, please point to some examples of what you do consider homophobic?

    And again, the reasons he opposes gay marriage are because he believes it is damaging and that gay partners are deficient. Additionally he accuses gay people of not actually wanting marriage but wanting to destroy it.
    If he opposes gay marriage for logical non homophobic reasons, these ain't them.


  • #680
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    SW wrote: »
    got any examples?
    Yes. I have already provided the statements of Gay Frenchmen who are opposed to gay marriage, as well as an Irish journalist and here is a gay American journalist for good measure.

    Being Against Gay Marriage Doesn't Make You a Homophobe


    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/12/being-against-gay-marriage-doesnt-make-you-a-homophobe/282333/


  • #681
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    SW wrote: »
    got any examples?

    Here is another one for good measure. Is this adoptee homophobic for looking at gay marriage from the perspective of the orphan?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkI3Np8-Hsg


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  • #682
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    That gives some indications of possible homophobia, not anymore than this in my opinion. He is giving his opinion about marriage and the gay lobby; not gay people per se.

    It's hardly conclusive. Is this really the best evidence of such an awful accusation?
    I've seen you build greater conspiracy theories out of innocuous comments. Eg Clare Daly's However a person describing a conspiratorial plot by gay people to destroy society doesn't count as homophobia. Strange.

    Does the right to fire gay teachers count as homophobia ?


  • #683
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    That gives some indications of possible homophobia, not anymore than this in my opinion. He is giving his opinion about marriage and the gay lobby; not gay people per se.

    It's hardly conclusive. Is this really the best evidence of such an awful accusation?

    Thanks for goalpost shifting and making it abundandtly clear you don't value any honest discourse but just want to waste people's time. Really, at this point Brown Bomber, any good faith I might have had for you is gone.


  • #684
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    I've seen you build greater conspiracy theories out of innocuous comments. Eg Clare Daly
    :rolleyes: So you are still sticking to your "it was a paraphrase" excuse despite it being the only paraphrase in known history to exist between two quotation marks? Really?


  • #685
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Being gay doesn't automatically exclude the possibility that you're a homophobe. Just like being a Jew doesn't exclude the possibility that you're a Nazi.


  • #686
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    :rolleyes: So you are still sticking to your "it was a paraphrase" excuse despite it being the only paraphrase in known history to exist between two quotation marks? Really?

    It still isn't deserving of being called a propagandist. Is it homophobic to fire teachers because of their sexual orientation?


  • #687
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Yes. I have already provided the statements of Gay Frenchmen who are opposed to gay marriage, as well as an Irish journalist and here is a gay American journalist for good measure.

    Being Against Gay Marriage Doesn't Make You a Homophobe


    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/12/being-against-gay-marriage-doesnt-make-you-a-homophobe/282333/

    The journalist is in favour of same-sex marriage. One reason in the piece for not allowing same-sex marriage is that a same-sex couple can't reproduce. That isn't a convincing argument since sterile/infertile couples can marry. Unless the person is willing to bar those couples from marrying, I would say that they are homophobic as they are only applying a criteria to homosexuals even though heterosexuals also fail the test.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #688
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Links234 wrote: »
    Thanks for goalpost shifting and making it abundandtly clear you don't value any honest discourse but just want to waste people's time. Really, at this point Brown Bomber, any good faith I might have had for you is gone.
    Okay, now you are attacking me for my honestly held opinion. I am sure that you agree that the charge of homophobia is a very serious one indeed and shouldn't be made lightly and any accusation should have a real substance behind it. This is how I feel.


  • #689
    AerynSun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭AerynSun


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    ... and here is a gay American journalist for good measure.

    And if you read what your American journalist has written, he's basically saying "let's not CALL it homophobia, so that we can keep the conversation going". Not actually calling it homophobia doesn't make it not actually be homophobia.

    The writer is a gay man who has chosen to remain within the Catholic church, and as such he has no option but to play along with the theological 'explanations' about the sacramental nature of man/woman marriage as something that is and should be different from same sex relationships. Personally, I think it's a pity that he's playing along to get along and keep the conversation open... because he's perpetuating the notion that there are legitimate differences between marriage and ssm that justify discrimination against same sex couples.


  • #690
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Here is another one for good measure. Is this adoptee homophobic for looking at gay marriage from the perspective of the orphan?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkI3Np8-Hsg

    Single people (homosexuals+heterosexuals) can adopt, and soon same-sex couples will also be able to adopt.

    But yes he is homophobic unless he is also opposed to single people adopting.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • #691
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    SW wrote: »
    Single people (homosexuals+heterosexuals) can adopt, and soon same-sex couples will also be able to adopt.

    But yes he is homophobic unless he is also opposed to single people adopting.
    ???

    How can you make such a judgement? What did he say at all against gay people? He is speaking for the rights of orphaned children as an orphaned child.


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