Gardai harrasing me?

The other fella · 29-01-2014 09:38PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

There is no law (as far as i can recall) that allows someone under the age of 16 to be "done". I can't even find the law that states Gardaí can take cigarettes off persons under 16. I'm fairly sure under-age smoking is not illegal...

As for getting stopped, you need to give more information:

- What way to do you dress?
- Have you been done before for something?
- What kind of company do you keep?
- Have you the head and haircut of a scumbag?
- Do you walk with a put-on swagger to make you look cooler?

Etc, etc. You can always write a letter to the local Super, explain your circumstances, ask why, etc.

Yes,as we all know,Gardai are trained to identify criminals through hair styles so thats why they are stopping you.

Gardai spend there first few months after coming out of templemore sitting in Peter Marks salons identifying criminal characteristics people show when deciding what haircut to get.

Its pretty standard police training in most European countries now,as in ratio with the rise of well groomed criminals.

hatrickpatrick · 29-01-2014 10:17PM

Thread like this depress the absolute sh!te out of me. Any time there's even the mere suggestion of abuse at any level everyone's immediate instinct is to err on the side of those in power instead of the ordinary person, regardless of circumstances. Couple that with an extremely nasty obsession with profiling ("Do you look like a skanger?" / "Do you have a heavy Dublin accent?" / "Were you wearing a tracksuit?" etc)

This is exactly the kind of attitude which led to Ireland's clerical abuse scandal, and the banking scandal, and the many FF scandals over the years, and so on and so forth.

If Edward Snowden was an Irish whistleblower and the programs he's exposed had been Irish intelligence programs, I have little doubt that the chorus on AH would be "This is why we need to reintroduce the death penalty" and other such utter sh!te.

29-01-2014 11:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I just wanted to use the word.

F.a.c.e.t.i.o.u.s. is SUCH and awesome word*

*I'm being serious now btw, no facetiousness in this sentence.

All five vowels in perfect sequence. What's not to love?

Ray Palmer · 30-01-2014 11:33AM

Bazzo wrote: »

I never get this ****e, do all Dubliners think Guards are all from the deadzone that is the rest of the island? You realise they're placed away from their locality on purpose right? There are a lot of Dublin Guards down the country.

You don't see every second person on boards ****ing on about the city thugs down the country though.

If they are beating up people and acting like thugs I would expect to hear about it. The fact I am not would suggest it isn't an issue. Culchie Gardaí are being mention because that what they do.

I know they were forced to move away from where they were raised but that has been removed. The reason is due to the hostility from Gardaí who weren't familiar with the communities in urban environments.

Do you have any stories of Dublin Gardaí acting like thugs? For somebody with no criminal record do you not think it is strange that I have experience of Gardaí thugery from when I was a child upwards?

rolexeagle1 · 30-01-2014 11:38AM

"better call Saul"

Bazzo · 30-01-2014 02:39PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If they are beating up people and acting like thugs I would expect to hear about it. The fact I am not would suggest it isn't an issue. Culchie Gardaí are being mention because that what they do.

I know they were forced to move away from where they were raised but that has been removed. The reason is due to the hostility from Gardaí who weren't familiar with the communities in urban environments.

Do you have any stories of Dublin Gardaí acting like thugs? For somebody with no criminal record do you not think it is strange that I have experience of Gardaí thugery from when I was a child upwards?

No, I think it's a stereotype that a lot of Dublin people seem to love to propagate.

I've seen several culchie Guards.
I've seen several Garda pricks.
All Guards are culchies.
Therefore all Guards are culchie pricks.
Wonderful leap in logic.

At the end of the day you'll find ***** in any walk of life. I've come across a couple of Dublin Guards who were pricks, yes. Doesn't mean I've taken up the ridiculous notion that every Guards in the country is a Dublin scumbag.

You clearly have an axe to grind with Guards/People from outside Dublin so I'm not gonna bother arguing with you any more.

Ray Palmer · 30-01-2014 03:25PM

Bazzo wrote: »

No, I think it's a stereotype that a lot of Dublin people seem to love to propagate.

I've seen several culchie Guards.
I've seen several Garda pricks.
All Guards are culchies.
Therefore all Guards are culchie pricks.
Wonderful leap in logic.

At the end of the day you'll find ***** in any walk of life. I've come across a couple of Dublin Guards who were pricks, yes. Doesn't mean I've taken up the ridiculous notion that every Guards in the country is a Dublin scumbag.

You clearly have an axe to grind with Guards/People from outside Dublin so I'm not gonna bother arguing with you any more.

Well you aren't paying attention. The ones who are the problem are the culchies. It is direct experience of these people not a stereo type I created. You are falsely assuming and claiming something that has been said.

I have an axe to grind with putting people in positions of power in areas they can't understand.

Nothing wrong with people form outside of Dublin. There is obviously a problem with the selection and placement of Gardaí. It isn't that they are culchie Gardaí it is they don't understand the areas they are placed in because of their background.

It isn't that they are just not nice it is they are physically attacking people which is hugely different.

You have accredit things to me I did not say and obviously can't read a post without going on the defence simply because you see it as some culchie bashing post from Dubliners. It isn't it is about unsuitable people being placed in the wrong areas. I genuinely think they can't handle the environments they are in and become aggressive and violent.

ThirdMan · 30-01-2014 03:55PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Well you aren't paying attention. The ones who are the problem are the culchies. It is direct experience of these people not a stereo type I created. You are falsely assuming and claiming something that has been said.

I have an axe to grind with putting people in positions of power in areas they can't understand.

Nothing wrong with people form outside of Dublin. There is obviously a problem with the selection and placement of Gardaí. It isn't that they are culchie Gardaí it is they don't understand the areas they are placed in because of their background.

It isn't that they are just not nice it is they are physically attacking people which is hugely different.

You have accredit things to me I did not say and obviously can't read a post without going on the defence simply because you see it as some culchie bashing post from Dubliners. It isn't it is about unsuitable people being placed in the wrong areas. I genuinely think they can't handle the environments they are in and become aggressive and violent.

That's a fair point and I'm sure there's something to it. But don't forget that there's been instances outside of Dublin as well, with local Gardaí coming down hard on people from their own area. I've seen that with my own eyes. I just think there are bad eggs in every walk of life. Dublin is a typical capital city. It gets the best of everything in terms of cultural events, educational opportunities, etc. But it also gets the worst of everything in terms of socially deprived areas, levels of poverty, etc. I'm never surprised by anything I see there, and I don't mean that as a criticism. You'll probably always get some crooked cops because if they're gonna be anywhere it will be in the capital where they can more easily get away with it.

Gamer Bhoy 89 · 30-01-2014 04:56PM

I would put it down to the idea of them not having anything to do. I was stopped and questioned when I emerged from a lane behind a church. I was on my way home from the carry-out. It's a very public lane and there is no law that says you're not allowed to be walking through there with bags of cans but I digress.

They pulled over and they asked what was in the bag and I told them it was alcohol and they asked me why I had such an attitude (I'm from Glasgow, it's difficult to come across nice in this country when I talk :P ) then they proceeded to question the fact that I was walking past a church with a bag of alcohol. They accused me of being very disrespectful to have alcohol in my possession outside a church. From my (and anybody that was near me)'s perspective I was simply walking from one place to the other on a Saturday night, didn't think I was doing anybody any harm.

It's mad the way they see, and have an obligation to label people into categories. After they could clearly see I was just an innocent man purchasing beverages for a night with friends in a social manner before departing to town for a severe p*ss-up, they told me to stay out of trouble and drove off.

wicklowstevo · 30-01-2014 05:19PM

gamercfc wrote: »

I would put it down to the idea of them not having anything to do. I was stopped and questioned when I emerged from a lane behind a church. I was on my way home from the carry-out. It's a very public lane and there is no law that says you're not allowed to be walking through there with bags of cans but I digress.

They pulled over and they asked what was in the bag and I told them it was alcohol and they asked me why I had such an attitude (I'm from Glasgow, it's difficult to come across nice in this country when I talk :P ) then they proceeded to question the fact that I was walking past a church with a bag of alcohol. They accused me of being very disrespectful to have alcohol in my possession outside a church. From my (and anybody that was near me)'s perspective I was simply walking from one place to the other on a Saturday night, didn't think I was doing anybody any harm.

It's mad the way they see, and have an obligation to label people into categories. After they could clearly see I was just an innocent man purchasing beverages for a night with friends in a social manner before departing to town for a severe p*ss-up, they told me to stay out of trouble and drove off.

Glasgow ! !!!!!! enough said :eek::eek::eek::eek:

easy there im just kidding

:D

Ray Palmer · 30-01-2014 05:22PM

ThirdMan wrote: »

That's a fair point and I'm sure there's something to it. But don't forget that there's been instances outside of Dublin as well, with local Gardaí coming down hard on people from their own area. I've seen that with my own eyes. .

Coming down hard and people is not what I would call 1-2 armed Gardaí attacking an unarmed teenager that has done nothing wrong. Even just the constant harassment of people walking down the street is more than just coming down hard.

I do appreciate that you can see I am not plainly saying all culchie Gardaí are thugs but more they are more likely to be out of their depth in an unfamiliar environment.

ThirdMan · 30-01-2014 05:33PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Coming down hard and people is not what I would call 1-2 armed Gardaí attacking an unarmed teenager that has done nothing wrong. Even just the constant harassment of people walking down the street is more than just coming down hard

Yeah fair enough. Although earlier in this thread I explained how my brother had his eye split open and his ribs cracked by three guards. He was loitering and wouldn't move on when he was asked. So he wasn't blameless. But he was only about 18. Getting kicked around a cell was hardly the correct response from three police officers. That's what I mean when I say coming down hard. Stuff like that does happen up and down the country, but I'm sure it's worse in Dublin. I have a friend from Cabra who's told me some awful stories about county Guards working in his area.

Ray Palmer · 30-01-2014 06:04PM

ThirdMan wrote: »

I have a friend from Cabra who's told me some awful stories about county Guards working in his area.

My experiences are from Coolock. I really don't think people understand it is really happening because they don't spend any time in such areas and see the Gardaí being nice to them.

I am far from some tracksuit wearing Dubliner with JP blues and on the dole which I gather is what some people on the thread assume.

ThirdMan · 30-01-2014 06:12PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

My experiences are from Coolock. I really don't think people understand it is really happening because they don't spend any time in such areas and see the Gardaí being nice to them.

They don't understand and they never will. Class is very much alive in Ireland and it's never more evident than on threads like this. Huge sections of our society just do not believe that this type of stuff goes on.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I am far from some tracksuit wearing Dubliner with JP blues and on the dole which I gather is what some people on the thread assume.

I know how you feel. I spend a lot of time explaining to people that I'm not an illiterate pig farmer from the Midlands. We're a very ignorant nation.

CountryJoe · 30-01-2014 06:30PM

ThirdMan wrote: »

Yeah fair enough. Although earlier in this thread I explained how my brother had his eye split open and his ribs cracked by three guards. He was loitering and wouldn't move on when he was asked. So he wasn't blameless. But he was only about 18. Getting kicked around a cell was hardly the correct response from three police officers. That's what I mean when I say coming down hard. Stuff like that does happen up and down the country, but I'm sure it's worse in Dublin. I have a friend from Cabra who's told me some awful stories about county Guards working in his area.

Thats quite a vicious assault to inflict on a kid for simply loitering about the place. If that was three random blokes who did that kind of damage to him they would be up in court.

Raider190 · 30-01-2014 06:47PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Considering that Mountjoy, Wheatfield, St. Pats etc. are full of stupid Dubs who were caught by the "clueless" culchie police it dosent say much for the intelligence of the average Dublin scumbag

And do you call when your property gets stolen ,your house gets broken into or you get assaulted . It ain't Ghostbusters

More anti garda sentiment from Santa Cruz . Will you ever change your tune. ???

Gran Hermano · 30-01-2014 06:52PM

Try the Ali G defence "Garda, are you stopping me because I'm black?"

Arbiter of Good Taste · 30-01-2014 07:08PM

Folks, I think we've all been tunned by the OP. I got suspicious when he didn't appear to return to the thread, so checked some of his other posts. On another thread he's claiming to be 16. In a different thread he's claiming to be looking to buy a house in Clondalkin. I don't know too many 16/17 year olds in the property market....

Gran Hermano · 30-01-2014 07:17PM

He may be a purveyor of the finest white powders.

folbotcar · 30-01-2014 07:44PM

OP, get yourself a fake gun. They should be easy enough to find in Clondalkin. Wave it at the next next cop who stops you. They'll never bother you again.:p

But I have to say I for one am glad the Gardaí are taking a pro active stance. Clearly there's a drug issue locally and the OP not only frequents the area. He fits the profile. There should be more zero tolerance. People complain the police don't do enough then complain when they do.

Funnily enough growing up in Dublin, as I did, in an area not far from Clondalkin. I was never bothered or beaten up by the Guards whether they be from the country or Dubs. But then again I avoided doing anything to draw attention to myself. But I knew lads who got hassled and by and large they deserved it. One told me he quit stealing motorbikes because he got beaten up too often! Rough justice but it worked in this case. I saw the local bike cop giving someone a few clouts with a baton once. I have to say I thought it was funny. He broke up a gang 'knacker drinking' around a bonfire but one wouldn't leave. 'Go home' said the guard. 'I know my rights' Whack! 'Go home'. 'You can't do this. I know my rights' Whack! 'Go home'. He went home.

I say I wasn't hassled but then I bought a motorcycle. Unfortunately it was a model popular with robbers so I now had a target on my back. In my time I was stopped for robbing a post office, a building society and just general routine checks and.... ahem speeding and racing. Blue lights, sirens and all. Never got done as I found politeness went a long way.

I'm always a bit suspicious of people who claim they're constantly harassed by the Gardaí.

masti123 · 30-01-2014 07:52PM

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Folks, I think we've all been tunned by the OP. I got suspicious when he didn't appear to return to the thread, so checked some of his other posts. On another thread he's claiming to be 16. In a different thread he's claiming to be looking to buy a house in Clondalkin. I don't know too many 16/17 year olds in the property market....

Yes, I was 16 before and that post was for a family friend looking to move their, bit weird considering that was my first post and you went through 180 of my posts ha

SNAKEDOC · 31-01-2014 02:21AM

harry Bailey esq wrote: »

nonsense.the police used to beat the bejesus out of us when i was that age. many times I've seen cops pull the baton on a stop and search,and if you didn't get a belt of the baton you'd sometimes get jabbed in the ribs with the torch.w@nkers give themselves a bad name.young cops from the country are the worst offenders.older cops or detectives rarely harass kids.

Just a thought maybe you deserved the slap of the baton or the poke in the ribs. Maybe you need to realise that pissing off a policeman is kinda a bad idea. I doubt you were stopped while helping your granny home with the messages now were you. Stop scumbagging and you wont get stopped by the cops and young lads pull up your trousers i shouldnt be able to see your jocks.

SNAKEDOC · 31-01-2014 02:25AM

folbotcar wrote: »

OP, get yourself a fake gun. They should be easy enough to find in Clondalkin. Wave it at the next next cop who stops you. They'll never bother you again.:p

But I have to say I for one am glad the Gardaí are taking a pro active stance. Clearly there's a drug issue locally and the OP not only frequents the area. He fits the profile. There should be more zero tolerance. People complain the police don't do enough then complain when they do.

Funnily enough growing up in Dublin, as I did, in an area not far from Clondalkin. I was never bothered or beaten up by the Guards whether they be from the country or Dubs. But then again I avoided doing anything to draw attention to myself. But I knew lads who got hassled and by and large they deserved it. One told me he quit stealing motorbikes because he got beaten up too often! Rough justice but it worked in this case. I saw the local bike cop giving someone a few clouts with a baton once. I have to say I thought it was funny. He broke up a gang 'knacker drinking' around a bonfire but one wouldn't leave. 'Go home' said the guard. 'I know my rights' Whack! 'Go home'. 'You can't do this. I know my rights' Whack! 'Go home'. He went home.

I say I wasn't hassled but then I bought a motorcycle. Unfortunately it was a model popular with robbers so I now had a target on my back. In my time I was stopped for robbing a post office, a building society and just general routine checks and.... ahem speeding and racing. Blue lights, sirens and all. Never got done as I found politeness went a long way.

I'm always a bit suspicious of people who claim they're constantly harassed by the Gardaí.

Great post. Especially the bit at the bon fire
I agree whileheartedly. Rough justice. You dont see gardai knocking sh1t out of people who dont deserve it.

Ray Palmer · 31-01-2014 09:59AM

Raider190 wrote: »

And do you call when your property gets stolen ,your house gets broken into or you get assaulted . It ain't Ghostbusters

More anti garda sentiment from Santa Cruz . Will you ever change your tune. ???

The point is that people don't ring the Gardaí for these things in certain areas because they don't trust them. As I said earlier are you going to call the Gardaí if the guy who arrives is going to be somebody who beat up your son?

Who do you call when you are assaulted by the Gardaí when they will lie and back each other up about what happened.

daheff · 31-01-2014 10:08AM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Who do you call when you are assaulted by the Gardaí when they will lie and back each other up about what happened.

you go to the hospital to be checked out. Advise them that you were assaulted. When they call the police and they arrive tell them that you were assaulted by a garda and that you want to report it. When you are finished giving them your details report it to your solicitor who should make a report to the Garda Ombudsman.

If Gardai know this will happen if they assault people then they will stop assaulting people.

Generally from what I have seen heard, they are not assaulting people, but are working within advised guidelines on dealing with difficult people.

But yeah, there are always a few who take it too far and some who get their jollies from 'scumbag bashing'

Ray Palmer · 31-01-2014 10:34AM

daheff wrote: »

you go to the hospital to be checked out. Advise them that you were assaulted. When they call the police and they arrive tell them that you were assaulted by a garda and that you want to report it. When you are finished giving them your details report it to your solicitor who should make a report to the Garda Ombudsman.

If Gardai know this will happen if they assault people then they will stop assaulting people.

Generally from what I have seen heard, they are not assaulting people, but are working within advised guidelines on dealing with difficult people.

But yeah, there are always a few who take it too far and some who get their jollies from 'scumbag bashing'

If somebody punched you would you go to the hospital? Get real

What chance do you think a 17 year old has in court with two Gardaí denying everything? What happened in the May Day "riots" the most obvious case of thugery and covering by Gardai

What you heard? Are you listening to the people here saying that it happens. I have direct experience of this. I was not a "difficult person" I was walking to my girlfriend's house. The OP was doing nothing too yet constantly stopped.

Even by calling it "scumbag bashing" suggests victims are some way less than human or guilty of something. That is not the case call it what it is random violent attacks on citizens. I was in no way a scumbag nor did I in anyway look like the stereo type.

Spring Onion · 31-01-2014 11:05AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Each time you are stopped, politely ask the Garda to see ID, and ask for his badge number. Keep a note of the time, date and location and badge number and after a while building this info up, bring it to the sargeant or someone else in a higher position in the local station.

This is good advice. I had some Garda harassment in my youth mainly related to other family members but I learned a few tricks.
1. Always take down their ID number. You don't even need to ask for it, its on their shoulder (Letter and Numbers). They do not like you recording it.
2. Mobile phones often have recording capabilities - ask can you record the conversation. They do not like that.
3. Be polite and ask loads of questions, they hate being asked questions. Questions like "what laws did I break", "are you charging me with something", "why are you harassing me", "are you beinging me to the station".... Guards know these questions (even if unanswered) can be awkward if court proceedings follow e.g. my client asked him numerous times why he kept stopping him and he did not answer.
4. Keep tax/insurance/nct up to date - don't give them an excuse.
5. If he touches you, say "that hurts"...they hate that!
6. If it happened to me today I would mention the word "Ombudsman"
7. I once asked one could I take his photo (he was a young guard and I already had him rattled) - you should have seen the look on his face!
8. Actually on that point, treat young guards differently to older guards. Young guards will be cheekier but will not be streetwise enough to know if they have crossed the line so get rattled easier. Older guards don't tend to make mistakes.

Valetta · 31-01-2014 11:26AM

Spring Onion wrote: »

This is good advice. I had some Garda harassment in my youth mainly related to other family members but I learned a few tricks.
1. Always take down their ID number. You don't even need to ask for it, its on their shoulder (Letter and Numbers). They do not like you recording it.
2. Mobile phones often have recording capabilities - ask can you record the conversation. They do not like that.
3. Be polite and ask loads of questions, they hate being asked questions. Questions like "what laws did I break", "are you charging me with something", "why are you harassing me", "are you beinging me to the station".... Guards know these questions (even if unanswered) can be awkward if court proceedings follow e.g. my client asked him numerous times why he kept stopping him and he did not answer.
4. Keep tax/insurance/nct up to date - don't give them an excuse.
5. If he touches you, say "that hurts"...they hate that!
6. If it happened to me today I would mention the word "Ombudsman"
7. I once asked one could I take his photo (he was a young guard and I already had him rattled) - you should have seen the look on his face!
8. Actually on that point, treat young guards differently to older guards. Young guards will be cheekier but will not be streetwise enough to know if they have crossed the line so get rattled easier. Older guards don't tend to make mistakes.

Why would you go out of your way to do things you think they "don't like" or "hate"?

That's just childish.

SNAKEDOC · 31-01-2014 11:27AM

Spring Onion wrote: »

This is good advice. I had some Garda harassment in my youth mainly related to other family members but I learned a few tricks.
1. Always take down their ID number. You don't even need to ask for it, its on their shoulder (Letter and Numbers). They do not like you recording it.
2. Mobile phones often have recording capabilities - ask can you record the conversation. They do not like that.
3. Be polite and ask loads of questions, they hate being asked questions. Questions like "what laws did I break", "are you charging me with something", "why are you harassing me", "are you beinging me to the station".... Guards know these questions (even if unanswered) can be awkward if court proceedings follow e.g. my client asked him numerous times why he kept stopping him and he did not answer.
4. Keep tax/insurance/nct up to date - don't give them an excuse.
5. If he touches you, say "that hurts"...they hate that!
6. If it happened to me today I would mention the word "Ombudsman"
7. I once asked one could I take his photo (he was a young guard and I already had him rattled) - you should have seen the look on his face!
8. Actually on that point, treat young guards differently to older guards. Young guards will be cheekier but will not be streetwise enough to know if they have crossed the line so get rattled easier. Older guards don't tend to make mistakes.

I dont think anyone should follow that advice.
Firstly if a garda stops you he is doing his job. If he doesnt know you how the hell is he supposed to get to know the area he is working in. They do this by investigating and talking to people. So they stop people for on the spot checks its perfectly legal.
Secondly no need to be rude to them. If you are polite you will find they are polite back. Such as hello garda how ar you,
Instead of wha law have i broken. You dont need to have broken a law to be stopped.
Thirdly if it comes to a point where a garda has to lay a hand on you then you have already pee'd him off and your probably going to be arrested
As for taking photos of the gardai again thats a bit silly all you have to note is his shoulder numbers.
If unsure politely ask him if you can see his warrant card. (Garda id)
If you are being stopped while walking then the garda may have a good reason to stop you so be patient and courtious again their doing their job.
Mentioning the word ombudsman does not scare a garda because the organisation is well trained and will see right through bull claims like that.
As a final remark if you find yourself being stopped often by the gardai ask yourself what the reasons may be. Do you get annoyed and maybe provoke suspicion. Next time you are stopped do as i said above be really nice and polite ask friendly questions not questions likely to tick the garda off and you will find that you wont be stoped as often if at all.

Yeah_Right · 31-01-2014 11:43AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If Edward Snowden was an Irish whistleblower and the programs he's exposed had been Irish intelligence programs, I have little doubt that the chorus on AH would be "This is why we need to reintroduce the death penalty" and other such utter sh!te.

Irish intelligence programs?!?!? Thats hilarious

Gardai harrasing me?

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