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Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    No
    Daith wrote: »
    You'll get a generic reply that they can't respond because of legal issues.

    Yeah, I know. Then I ask for an internal review, then I ask the BAI for a review.

    The point I'm going with is that RTE have censored and misrepresented a strongly held honest belief of the Irish public (and me) that is supported by evidence in the public domain.

    I figure the best that happens from this is that the mainstream media picks up on the number of complaints and starts reporting on it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,338 ✭✭✭Daith


    No
    Breda tried to respond to points made by Colm O'Gorman by misquoting him and saying something that he didn't actually say.

    Much like the Iona's submission to the Constitutional Convention which used a report to argue against same sex marriage. Despite the report actually saying it can't be used as an argument for or against same sex marriage!

    Kinda sensing a theme...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,567 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    No
    Daith wrote: »
    Much like the Iona's submission to the Constitutional Convention which used a report to argue against same sex marriage. Despite the report actually saying it can't be used as an argument for or against same sex marriage!

    Kinda sensing a theme...

    They are loopers, dangerous loopers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    No
    Breda O Brien who thinks my rights should be sidelined for her"common good" as she demands a right to a'good name"???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭Bobby42


    No
    Daith wrote: »
    Breda O'Brien: “Equality (for gay people) must take second place to the common good”

    I have no sympathy for her


    So she's arguing that gay people need to be treated like 2nd class citizens and that equality for gay people would hurt the common good of society but at the same time she's not in anyway homophobic.

    This is the doublethink from 1984.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    Breda O Brien showing a very nasty side, cutting over constantly and making comments like "I'm agreeing with you, don't panic darling".

    also her saying "I want to see diversity"; hypocritical as.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,192 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    No
    Breda O'Brien reminds me of Professor Umbridge from Harry Potter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    Breda O'Brien reminds me of Professor Umbridge from Harry Potter.
    Wow! I was just thinking of that last night...there is that "kill you with kindness" vibe...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    No
    Cydoniac wrote: »
    Just saw this on Twitter

    @AudreyCarville: The State's role in education. On @LatedebateRTE with @Colmogorman @AodhanORiordain Breda O'Brien & John Murray. #rteld 10pm @RTERadio1

    2 Iona out of 4 on the panel...interesting to see how this one goes. RTE needing their approval on yet another matter which shouldn't pertain to them.

    Fascinating discussuon earlier

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭Bobby42


    No
    What if she said:

    "equality for travelers must take second place to the common good", and that "traveler people are different from the rest of us and need to be treated differently, and so should have less rights than everyone else because they are less valuable than us settled people".

    Would RTE be as accommodating?

    If Pavee Point called her anti traveler in an interview would they just quickly censor the piece, issue an apology, and then pay out damages?

    There are nine grounds of discrimination: race, religion, gender, marital status, family status, age, disability, member of the traveling community, AND sexual orientation.

    Saying someone should have less rights simply because they are gay is the same as saying someone should have less rights because they are female or use a wheelchair, ect.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    You can replace 'same sex' with pretty much any other minority group and it sounds horrible. Because it is horrible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    https://soundcloud.com/user727747666/rteld-debate

    For anyone who missed it (or wants to hear)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    No
    Something just occurred to me... Youth Defence must be feeling very forgotten about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    Lyaiera wrote: »
    Something just occurred to me... Youth Defence must be feeling very forgotten about.
    They're still very much in the pro-life debate at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,338 ✭✭✭Daith


    No
    Cydoniac wrote: »
    https://soundcloud.com/user727747666/rteld-debate

    For anyone who missed it (or wants to hear)

    Thanks for that. Wow, once again Breda brings up the point that she was called a homophobe because she believes a child should be raised by their biological mother and father.

    Neither Rory/Panti or Colm said this. Twisting words on her part.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    She also spouted out an incorrect figure regarding Educate Together only to be corrected at the end, her figure way underestimated the reality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    No
    Lyaiera wrote: »
    Something just occurred to me... Youth Defence must be feeling very forgotten about.

    Same office and murky funding as Iona aren't they? Quite surprised there's been no protests of note outside a building on the corner of Capel and Parnell Streets yet to be honest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    P_1 wrote: »
    Same office and murky funding as Iona aren't they? Quite surprised there's been no protests of note outside a building on the corner of Capel and Parnell Streets yet to be honest.
    They're probably all under one American body at the end of the day, to be honest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    No
    P_1 wrote: »
    Same office and murky funding as Iona aren't they? Quite surprised there's been no protests of note outside a building on the corner of Capel and Parnell Streets yet to be honest.

    Are they? I'm not so sure about that.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    Is there a "give a damn at this stage" option?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    No
    What I find very scary is how the Iona institute et al are adopting words used by gay people over the years to describe their feelings of oppression. Pleading for 'open mindedness' and that others don't hold bigoted opinions etc..

    This change in vocabulary really demonstrates to me at least a kind of desperation and a sea change in terms of their diminishing position.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    No
    Are they? I'm not so sure about that.

    I may have got my right wing christian 'charities' mixed up now that I think of it. II and YD are seemingly different organisations with similar goals and possibly similar backers though


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,316 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    This'll only get worse with a referendum, we have to have equal representation as per the McKenna judgement, that creates problems as was seen during the children rights referendum when you've very few politicians on the no side. You're giving unelected, biased, highly funded self interest groups a lot of air and tv time.

    It's how Declan Ganley became such a big name, but still failed politically and democratically. Vested interest groups can buy radio, newspaper and tv time if they've enough funds. It's a very American system at the minute, I don't believe that was the intention of Patricia McKenna when taking the case.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    K-9 wrote: »
    This'll only get worse with a referendum, we have to have equal representation as per the McKenna judgement, that creates problems as was seen during the children rights referendum when you've very few politicians on the no side. You're giving unelected, biased, highly funded self interest groups a lot of air and tv time.

    It's how Declan Ganley became such a big name, but still failed politically and democratically. Vested interest groups can buy radio, newspaper and tv time if they've enough funds. It's a very American system at the minute, I don't believe that was the intention of Patricia McKenna when taking the case.
    After seeing and hearing a lot of people on the likes of Twitter though, and from family and friends over the past few years, I feel hopeful that there many people who don't buy into some of these pressure groups and believe that yes, this is a decision people want and need, and no, it is not going to damn or change the nation.

    I think having gay marriage is like coming out really. You build it up to be such a big thing in your mind and want to deny it in a sense, but when it actually happens, there is an anticlimax when you realise the world doesn't really mind all that much! (for the most part)

    I get the feeling Pride this year is going to be a landmark event, even by last year's standards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    No
    cloudatlas wrote: »
    What I find very scary is how the Iona institute et al are adopting words used by gay people over the years to describe their feelings of oppression. Pleading for 'open mindedness' and that others don't hold bigoted opinions etc..

    This change in vocabulary really demonstrates to me at least a kind of desperation and a sea change in terms of their diminishing position.

    It's one of the things I find most upsetting and most telling about their mindset, their desperation to appropriate language from the very people they're trying to hurt. It also redoubles the damage - their claims are so ridiculous that they're robbing the actual victims of such behaviour of a means to articulate their problems.

    It's disgustingly crass and cynical, but it also goes to show you how little they "get" it. They understand that it's bad to be a homophobe - and thus, on some subconscious level, that what they're doing is wrong - but they go to crazy lengths to avoid anybody saying it out loud. They don't seem to understand the relationship between being called a homophobe, and that being a negative thing, and actually being one, and that being far worse.

    Infinitely easier than suing everybody who point out the blindingly obvious would to just... stop being homophobic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    No
    It's one of the things I find most upsetting and most telling about their mindset, their desperation to appropriate language from the very people they're trying to hurt. It also redoubles the damage - their claims are so ridiculous that they're robbing the actual victims of such behaviour of a means to articulate their problems.

    Exactly I find it curious but deeply upsetting also. The censorship, the appropriation of language, the attempt to almost force semantic change of words. My mind boggles every time I listen to one of them speak.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    No
    cloudatlas wrote: »
    What I find very scary is how the Iona institute et al are adopting words used by gay people over the years to describe their feelings of oppression. Pleading for 'open mindedness' and that others don't hold bigoted opinions etc..

    This change in vocabulary really demonstrates to me at least a kind of desperation and a sea change in terms of their diminishing position.

    Standard practice when a previously held majority position finds itself on the defensive and becoming the minority and the hard core can't accept the times they are achanging , We see it with men v the feminist movement or Unionism in N.Ireland etc, same in this case. They start seeing themselves as the victim and not the oppressor.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    The discussion within the Gay Community is nuanced. The message coming out of Iona isn't. Their message is 'black vs white' as you put it. It consists of stating that homosexual relationships are not equal to heterosexual relationships and should be treated accordingly. Very black and white viewpoint no?

    And why do they think it’s not equal? To extrapolate on that their actual message is more nuanced (surprise , surprise) by saying that heterosexual relationships are unique in the manner because normally children arise from such a union. Physically gay couples cannot naturally have kids. They can of course adopt, foster, surrogacy options .etc.. but they themselves cannot 'make' a child by having intercourse the same way as heterosexual couples do. This is a plain fact unless some weird gene altering therapy comes to market in the future.
    Maybe they think this because it’s the will God, or the well-trodden ‘Don’t mess with nature’. The latter is kind of Darwinian ironically.
    You can of course disagree with this saying that what is important to a child is a loving stable secure household in which to grow up in. Doesn’t matter if its two guys, two girls or one of each at its head. I am somewhat in that agreement. However, I also think depending on the situation, the child, the environment, the culture that having a father/mother who take up their respective traditional roles as parents is not far wrong either. Who is to say what is best or better? What we do know is that the breakdown of marriage, single mothers trying to raise kids without a father in tough neighbourhood creates huge amount of social problems down the line especially with young men. One just has to look at inner city London and inner city American neighbour hoods to see the mess this has created.

    I wrote a paragraph on the concept of marriage and how it’s now looked upon as a romantic notion is very new. This was ignored as people are not actually interested in examining or discussing marriage itself, what it means, what it was and what it will be in the future or indeed what it should be. Maybe Starkey is right, marriage is an outdated concept but we stick to it via nostalgia and tradition. People are certainly not interested in looking and examine ways to stop marriages or unions from breaking down with the self-evident results of children being permanently psychology damaged as a results. I have raised these points before. NOBODY cared to discuss them. Much easier to raise the pitch forks and beat a hobby horse. All anyway seems to want to talk about it is "Iona are bad!! m'kay".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭Friend Computer


    jank wrote: »
    Who is to say what is best or better?

    Presumably the people who have invested a lot of time and effort into studying these matters who have come to the conclusion that one isn't better than the other.
    All anyway seems to want to talk about it is "Iona are bad!! m'kay".
    You might have just the tiniest smidgen more credibility if you weren't saying this in a thread entitled "Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?"

    A bit like going into a thread about lemons and complaining about people talking about lemons.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    Much easier to raise the pitch forks and beat a hobby horse. All anyway seems to want to talk about it is "Iona are bad!! m'kay".
    I thought this was all you were looking for in this thread. It seems to be a pattern in your discussions on the A&A forum as well from what I've seen. To have any sort of discussion with you leads to a 'leftie liberals think they're so great' nonsensical playground fight, political buzzwords inclusive.

    Moving on...


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