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Ukraine on the brink of civil war

245

Comments

  • #32
    Riddle101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,669 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Russia will take care of this, just like they did with Georgia and stamp out any fires the occur. All the while Europe will put their tail between their legs and condemn it all, but won't do anything about it.


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Riddle101 wrote: »
    Russia will take care of this, just like they did with Georgia and stamp out any fires the occur. All the while Europe will put their tail between their legs and condemn it all, but won't do anything about it.

    Sadly this sounds like the most plausible outcome.

    The EU - brilliant at encroaching on our national autonomy when we don't fight back, but when the sh*t hits the fan and some crisis management is needed they are seriously lacking in every department.

    Worthless.


  • #34
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    It's not the Soviet era anymore Russia has no more claim to the Ukraine than Europe. Invading a sovereign nation would do more harm than good I think It would be upto the people. Unless the current government askes for aid in shutting down the anti government side. But I think that would lead to civil war.


  • #35
    NoCrackHaving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭NoCrackHaving


    6781 wrote: »
    Russia are to blame for this current unrest. I'm all for the people of Ukraine wanting to stop Russian influences in their country. But most of the violence is organised the far right which is growing larger and at an alarming rate in Ukraine. You will see a lot of red and black flags same design as the current Ukraine flag used by the far right been waved at these protests or on football terraces. Also loads of graffiti with stuff like 14/88 all over the place there.

    You sure that's a far right flag? Red and black are traditionally an anarchist symbol.
    Riddle101 wrote: »
    Russia will take care of this, just like they did with Georgia and stamp out any fires the occur. All the while Europe will put their tail between their legs and condemn it all, but won't do anything about it.

    Like what? Go to war with Russia? No one in Europe is interested in going to war over Ukraine. At the end of the day all those war mongering politicians in (France, Italy and UK are guiltiest in this respect) aren't going to start a war with a country that can actually fight back.


  • #36
    NoCrackHaving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭NoCrackHaving


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    It's not the Soviet era anymore Russia has no more claim to the Ukraine than Europe. Invading a sovereign nation would do more harm than good I think It would be upto the people. Unless the current government askes for aid in shutting down the anti government side. But I think that would lead to civil war.

    They've already done it in Georgia, Moldova and a multitude of Russian republics that want independance.


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  • #37
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    NoCrackHaving wrote: »
    They've already done it in Georgia, Moldova and a multitude of Russian republics that want independance.

    You mean the places no were near Europe at all ? This is on the Doorstep a little more worrying. As I'm sure the old phrase breathing room maybe used if any military action is taken by them.


  • #38
    hjkl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 469 ✭✭hjkl


    Anyone with an understanding of Ukraine willing to post up a background the political situation in over there. My knowledge of the country goes as far as they're flag is blue and yellow and Andry Shevchenko is from there.


  • #39
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    You mean the places no were near Europe at all ? This is on the Doorstep a little more worrying. As I'm sure the old phrase breathing room maybe used if any military action is taken by them.

    Pedantically speaking, Moldova shares a border with Romania and was a part of it up to WW2. Having said that it doesn't quite have the same strategic importance as Ukraine does to the EU. TBH I can't see the EU and Russia going to war over it but about 100 years ago people were saying the same about Serbia...


  • #40
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,705 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Unless the current government askes for aid in shutting down the anti government side. But I think that would lead to civil war.

    This pretty much sums it up. If things ever escalated too far out of the control of the government you can be fairly sure Yanukovych would be on the phone to Moscow asking for 'peacekeepers'

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  • #41
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    This pretty much sums it up. If things ever escalated too far out of the control of the government you can be fairly sure Yanukovych would be on the phone to Moscow asking for 'peacekeepers'
    He wouldn't be asking, he'd be told to stand in front of a camera and say he asked, quite different.


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  • #42
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,705 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Sulla Felix wrote: »
    He wouldn't be asking, he'd be told to stand in front of a camera and say he asked, quite different.

    He would be asking, quite freely.

    This is the source of much of the current protests - he pulled the plug on a pro-European trade agreement in favour of some closer ties with Russia, sweetened by some debt forgiveness from Russia over Ukraine's unpaid natural gas debts.

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  • #43
    6781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 431 ✭✭6781


    NoCrackHaving wrote: »
    You sure that's a far right flag? Red and black are traditionally an anarchist symbol.
    Yes. It was the flag used by the Ukraine resistance during WWII. They fought against all invaders Russian, German, and so on. It has been adopted by the far right.

    To say its a east/west divide is a bit simplistic. There have been many rallies, protest and riots against the government in eastern cities too. I agree with the points of the EU not wanting to get involved.


  • #44
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    What the fluck is it about Russia and always wanting to be a bully? Why the fluck cant they be on the good side for once? They essentially are "westerners" in that they are white, European (well, the western half is, geographically speaking), mainly Christian, and fully up to date with education and technology etc. They are as much a first world country as any other. You would think sanity and reason would prevail, but no, they just throw their weight around because they can. Arseholes.


  • #45
    hjkl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 469 ✭✭hjkl


    newmug wrote: »
    What the fluck is it about Russia and always wanting to be a bully? Why the fluck cant they be on the good side for once? They essentially are "westerners" in that they are white, European (well, the western half is, geographically speaking), mainly Christian, and fully up to date with education and technology etc. They are as much a first world country as any other. You would think sanity and reason would prevail, but no, they just throw their weight around because they can. Arseholes.
    Do actually have any idea what you are talking about?


  • #46
    goose2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sadly this sounds like the most plausible outcome.

    The EU - brilliant at encroaching on our national autonomy when we don't fight back, but when the sh*t hits the fan and some crisis management is needed they are seriously lacking in every department.

    Worthless.

    Looks like those clowns in Brussels did it again. What a bunch of clowns.


  • #47
    Jonny7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sadly this sounds like the most plausible outcome.

    The EU - brilliant at encroaching on our national autonomy when we don't fight back, but when the sh*t hits the fan and some crisis management is needed they are seriously lacking in every department.

    Worthless.

    What is "Europe" supposed to do exactly?

    We going to stop trading and impose punitive measures if Yanukovych doesn't "join us"..?

    No. This is Ukraine's choice. There are those that are fiercely pro-European and those that a fiercely pro-Russian. The country is torn, hence the recent issues.


  • #48
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,705 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    newmug wrote: »
    What the fluck is it about Russia and always wanting to be a bully? Why the fluck cant they be on the good side for once? They essentially are "westerners" in that they are white, European (well, the western half is, geographically speaking), mainly Christian, and fully up to date with education and technology etc. They are as much a first world country as any other. You would think sanity and reason would prevail, but no, they just throw their weight around because they can. Arseholes.

    Wow, I don't even know where to begin with that...

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  • #49
    Riddle101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,669 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    NoCrackHaving wrote: »
    Like what? Go to war with Russia? No one in Europe is interested in going to war over Ukraine. At the end of the day all those war mongering politicians in (France, Italy and UK are guiltiest in this respect) aren't going to start a war with a country that can actually fight back.

    I know that, and that's my point. A lot of international condemnation by Europe but nothing will happen.

    Of course that being said. When Joseph "Tito" Broz had his famous split with Stallin in the late 40's. Yugoslavia stood strong even when faced with the possibility of war with the Soviet Union. Nothing ever came of it, though because Yugoslavia was neutral but Stallin feared involvement from the West which he wasn't ready for. I do believe that if Europe showed a joint effort, they could probably stop any further escalation, and I don't believe Russia wants a war with Europe either.


  • #50
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    Wow, I don't even know where to begin with that...

    Go on. Try.


  • #51
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Europe won't do anything. In fact we wouldn't do anything if Russia were to invade the Ukraine and roll on into the Eastern block. We need the gas. We like the good life. East Germany might be safe enough though as Germany is Western.


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  • #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    goose2005 wrote: »
    Looks like those clowns in Brussels did it again. What a bunch of clowns.

    How do you manage to keep up with the news like that ;)


  • #53
    Jonny7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Europe won't do anything. In fact we wouldn't do anything if Russia were to invade the Ukraine and roll on into the Eastern block. We need the gas. We like the good life. East Germany might be safe enough though as Germany is Western.

    goddamn chicken**** Krauts.. just rolling out the carpet for the reds!

    oh sorry, got a bit carried away there, thought we were back in the eighties again


  • #54
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    Wow, I don't even know where to begin with that...



    Why don't you make an attempt anyway. It would be better than just throwing in smart arse comments for the sake of it. Go on, provide a valid counter opinion, minus the dissent.


  • #55
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,705 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Europe won't do anything.

    +1 to that regarding Ukraine,

    Not so sure about the rest of the eastern bloc

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  • #56
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    newmug wrote: »
    What the fluck is it about Russia and always wanting to be a bully? Why the fluck cant they be on the good side for once? They essentially are "westerners" in that they are white, European (well, the western half is, geographically speaking), mainly Christian, and fully up to date with education and technology etc. They are as much a first world country as any other. You would think sanity and reason would prevail, but no, they just throw their weight around because they can. Arseholes.

    People could say similar things about the U.S. and Latin America. Powerful states tend to exert influence in their "back yard".


  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    What is "Europe" supposed to do exactly?

    We going to stop trading and impose punitive measures if Yanukovych doesn't "join us"..?

    No. This is Ukraine's choice. There are those that are fiercely pro-European and those that a fiercely pro-Russian. The country is torn, hence the recent issues.

    My point was that in the highly possible event of Russia weighing in on the situation violently, Europe would be wringing it's hands and condemning the violence, without itself actually doing anything practical to help out.

    E.g. if there was civil war and a refugee crisis, we know from Syria that the EU won't want to know about helping out. Also, if there were to be a massacre of the demonstrators the EU would sit their doing absolutely NOTHING to help. Instead, it would pontificate on how peace is needed, and meanwhile hope the Americans might come up with some weapons / military aid.


  • #58
    castletownman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    I must say I am paying a lot more attention to this than I am to the conflict in Syria, given the far-reaching consequences it may have on Ireland.

    Of course, there will be political hipsters lambasting me for not showing more keen of an interest in Syria.


  • #59
    Says I To Bridey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭Says I To Bridey


    If Europe could get its act together militarily it'd be fun, as it is now Russia has the upper hand and can do what it likes safe in the knowledge that Europe can do very little except protest. A single European defence industry would match and probably top the US


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Europe won't do anything. In fact we wouldn't do anything if Russia were to invade the Ukraine and roll on into the Eastern block. We need the gas. We like the good life. East Germany might be safe enough though as Germany is Western.

    Eastern Block? Do you mean Eastern Bloc?

    No matter, as neither of those things exist. The Cold War ended in Europe in the early 90's. The Eastern Bloc dissolved as many states declared independence from the USSR.


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  • #61
    Eight Ball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 906 ✭✭✭Eight Ball


    Something to watch on the telly sure. We are like sooooooooo overdue a war in Europe.


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