Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Pylons

1…2930323435…53

Comments

  • #932
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Blahblah2012 wrote: »
    have you?
    All you have to do is produce some pricing that disproves the figures I've give.

    Until then you are handwaving , appealing to emotion and asking the rest of us to subsidise your lifestyle.


  • #933
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    All you have to do is produce some pricing that disproves the figures I've give.

    Which of these figures did you give to prove your point?

    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Until then you are handwaving , appealing to emotion and asking the rest of us to subsidise your lifestyle.

    No....i'm here to point out that there are spoofers like you on here trying to sell the people something they don't need!!!

    Who do you work for?


    The scale of this project is bullshît and it doesn't wash that it's "in our interest"!!!
    It's quite clear whose interest it is in though.



    What lifestyle am I asking everyone to subsidise? A lifestyle without a 400kva powerline beside my house?
    A lifestyle where a lot more people could generate their own (clean) power?

    Again this doesn't suit esb etc as there would be less demand for their power.


  • #934
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    I agree that ESB must somehow feel threatened by the idea of households being self-sufficient.

    After all CM, if people used batteries, provided they are in the right situation for wind and solar, and possibly more, they might very well do without ESB altogether.

    Like you said, the current cost is an inhibitor, but cost fluctuates with demand. What if a few clever companies from France or Germany picked up on the idea, and offered very competitive package deals ?

    I have solar panels that work wonderfully, amazingly in fact. Have had them around 4 years now I'd say. There are very few days of the year when less heat is passed on to the coil that heats our hot water, along with the stove.
    The stove really just has to top up here and there, the panels do most of the work. We can see the temperature of the tank top and bottom, so it is very easy to assess.
    It's not really seasonal, our panels could be 57 degrees on a winter day.

    We did not get a grant or anything to install panels (actually they are tubes), and the cost was very reasonable altogether. The tank was the biggest expense.

    The nimbys you are saying would give out wouldn't, simply because
    a) not everyone would go for a turbine on their land
    b) the size of domestic turbines is not as intrusive as the size of commercial turbines
    c) geothermal, hydro, methane processing... there are many other systems that might work and complete the picture depending on situation, with no effect on neighbours.

    Again you seem to completely close off your mind to new ideas, and to the notion that sometimes to achieve real change, well, you have to take a chance.

    I suppose the issue as regards wholesale and retail prices, is what priority does the ESB have ? Help reduce CO2 emissions, vs making money ?

    Aren't we repeatedly reminded that the Gridlink scheme will help reduce emissions ? :confused:


  • #935
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    asking the rest of us to subsidise your lifestyle.

    Subsidise lifestyles, or reduce CO2 emissions for everyone ?

    What about companies wishing to invest in private sources of renewable energy ? would they also be discouraged in that manner ?
    Should they not be supported ?
    Does a factory needs equipment wise not equate at the very least 5 private houses (for a small company) ?


  • #936
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Blahblah2012 wrote: »
    Which of these figures did you give to prove your point?
    Remember the bit about 1KW turbines on 13m towers for every househould in Leitrim wouldn't produce as much power as two large turbines on a wind farm.


  • Advertisement
  • #937
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    I agree that ESB must somehow feel threatened by the idea of households being self-sufficient.

    After all CM, if people used batteries, provided they are in the right situation for wind and solar, and possibly more, they might very well do without ESB altogether.
    If your electricity usage is low enough that the batteries cost less than the standing charge then worth looking into.
    Like you said, the current cost is an inhibitor, but cost fluctuates with demand. What if a few clever companies from France or Germany picked up on the idea, and offered very competitive package deals ?
    That would be good.

    The nimbys you are saying would give out wouldn't, simply because
    a) not everyone would go for a turbine on their land
    b) the size of domestic turbines is not as intrusive as the size of commercial turbines
    c) geothermal, hydro, methane processing... there are many other systems that might work and complete the picture depending on situation, with no effect on neighbours.
    apart from solar those options are only available to rural dwellers.

    While the size of a domestic turbine isn't as intrusive you would need thousands of times as many. Let's suppose you stick up a 5Kw turbine in a suitable. You'd need to stick up another 1,199 of them to match a large 6MW one

    After doing all that you haven't replaced all the wind farms, you haven't replaced one wind farm, in fact you haven't replaced one turbine because it's collecting wind higher up.


  • #938
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    This reminded me of some of the stuff on this thread.

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/news/plans-for-207-wind-turbines-in-irish-sea-29939310.html
    RESIDENTS in Louth and Meath, especially along the coast, are being advised to check out a planning application for up to 207 wind turbines in the Irish Sea.

    OMG :eek:
    The proposed development is located off Cumbria and 31km southeast of the Isle of Man
    Oh it's in England :rolleyes


    For the inquisitive
    http://infrastructure.planningportal.gov.uk/projects/north-west/walney-extension-offshore-wind-farm/?ipcsection=advice&ipcadvice=a86fa6c57a

    Location map http://infrastructure.planningportal.gov.uk/wp-content/ipc/uploads/projects/EN010027/2.%20Post-Submission/Application%20Documents/Plans/2.1%20Location%20Plan.pdf


  • #939
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    If your electricity usage is low enough that the batteries cost less than the standing charge then worth looking into.

    That would be good.


    apart from solar those options are only available to rural dwellers.

    While the size of a domestic turbine isn't as intrusive you would need thousands of times as many. Let's suppose you stick up a 5Kw turbine in a suitable. You'd need to stick up another 1,199 of them to match a large 6MW one

    After doing all that you haven't replaced all the wind farms, you haven't replaced one wind farm, in fact you haven't replaced one turbine because it's collecting wind higher up.

    My point though was not that you could replace every commercial windfarm in the land with lots of domestic turbines, rather that you would not expand the number of windfarms to the point where it is unsocially acceptable, as proposed with the Midlands project for example.

    I think currently some windfarms are very badly located (some tourists mentioned Connemara to me, I haven't been there in a while so don't really know about that spot), but they're there, and my own personal emphasis would be on not worsening the situation, rather than dismantling what is there. Dismantling sensitive areas that have been affected would be a great move though, whenever that can be done.


    I also mentioned that I don't think all should be based on the one kind of renewable energy (namely, wind), but that a lot of other ideas and projects could happen were they to be given a chance, rather than be dismissed because they don't make a quick buck.
    But you may remember that from the thread on wind turbines, where I make the same points.

    Again my bottom line is, if and when renewable energy production reaches a level where its demands are not acceptable to dwellers, whether rural or urban, and visitors even, then the situation requires a rethink, possibly experimenting and coming up with new solutions.

    This is the pylons thread so substitute energy infrastructure for renewable energy production.


  • #940
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Remember the bit about 1KW turbines on 13m towers for every househould in Leitrim wouldn't produce as much power as two large turbines on a wind farm.

    Well considering you chose a county with the smallest population in the country it's amusing.

    A 1kw turbine for a house on a 13m tower?
    http://www.windturbines.ie/domestic/ordering.asp#order



    You didn't answer who you work for.


  • #941
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    My point though was not that you could replace every commercial windfarm in the land with lots of domestic turbines, rather that you would not expand the number of windfarms to the point where it is unsocially acceptable, as proposed with the Midlands project for example.
    http://www.iwea.com/windmap

    have a look at the map and you'll notice there aren't that many windfarms in the midlands

    Longford, Westmeath, Dublin , Offaly, Meath, Kildare, and Carlow combined don't add up to one 6MW turbine. Add in Louth and Waterford and it's about 12MW.


    You'll also notice that wind is mainly in the touristy counties along the West coast.


  • Advertisement
  • #942
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Blahblah2012 wrote: »
    Well considering you chose a county with the smallest population in the country it's amusing.

    A 1kw turbine for a house on a 13m tower?
    http://www.windturbines.ie/domestic/ordering.asp#order

    Cost Inc. VAT (13.5%) €5,334 - €7,377

    Prices for the 1kw taper tower, 2, 3 & 5kw do not include additional works i.e. building to house inverters, additional cable runs, cost of concrete installation or digger hire

    large wind farms are generally less than €2,000/KW including all works and labour



    You didn't answer who you work for.
    Guess :p


  • #943
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Prices for the 1kw taper tower, 2, 3 & 5kw do not include additional works i.e. building to house inverters, additional cable runs, cost of concrete installation or digger hire


    And how much do you think the above will cost?

    A €3.2 billion investment in domestic harvesting would make it affordable for anyone that wants it.

    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    large wind farms are generally less than €2,000/KW including all works and labour

    Where did you get that from? That's why we need a €3.2 billion grid upgrade?
    Is that factored into your €2000/kw claim?



    Quote blahblah2012:
    Who do you work for?
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Guess :p

    Not suprising.


  • #944
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    http://www.iwea.com/windmap

    have a look at the map and you'll notice there aren't that many windfarms in the midlands

    Longford, Westmeath, Dublin , Offaly, Meath, Kildare, and Carlow combined don't add up to one 6MW turbine. Add in Louth and Waterford and it's about 12MW.


    You'll also notice that wind is mainly in the touristy counties along the West coast.

    Well then, have a few windfarms (if they are actually viable) in the Midlands, at a reasonable, acceptable scale for dwellers and visitors to that county, and for the benefit of all in Ireland, since it's Irish people who are going to have to accommodate the infrastructure.

    Makes sense. Balance things out.

    Where the balance is completely and utterly lost, is when the infrastructure does not benefit the people who have to host it, or when the scale is disproportionate.

    The Mainstream project does not benefit the people who have to tolerate the infrastructure, and the scale is disproportionate. From no turbines, they are asked to accept 450 (or more ?), for export.

    Because of these, someone in Cork or Waterford might find themselves with a new pylon on their land, or right beside it.

    If the pylon on their land was required for the benefit of everyone in Ireland, that would be acceptable, after some reasonable negociation perhaps re-distances.

    Some pylons on or near people's houses and land are going to be a consequence of the Mainstream project.

    Which ones ? How many ? How tall ?

    If 200 turbines were to be set up in these counties, for the benefit of the Irish population, how many new or upgraded pylons would be required ? What height ?

    It would be great if Eirgrid would simply give answers to these questions, so we can stop all the headaches.


  • #945
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Cost Inc. VAT (13.5%) €5,334 - €7,377

    Prices for the 1kw taper tower, 2, 3 & 5kw do not include additional works i.e. building to house inverters, additional cable runs, cost of concrete installation or digger hire

    large wind farms are generally less than €2,000/KW including all works and labour

    In about 8 years I would have a turbine paid off. I've rounded the cost
    at 10 000 for extra installation work. If you think more is needed, let's add 2 years. I'm basing this on my average ESB bill which is 200e bimonthly.

    Lifespan of turbines without maintenance : 20 years.

    Add 2 years worth of paying for maintenance, just in case.
    That's 12 years.

    I have a turbine producing energy for me for another 8 years, and it's all paid off.

    But that's for the lifespan without maintenance, so with maintenance, I might very well get another 5 years, more (?) of use.

    That's not bad at all, 13 years of all paid off use.

    The one cost I don't know and it's difficult for me to search for (since I don't know names/refs) is the cost for batteries, even though they are not required. It would have to be either batteries or ESB standing charge.

    I'm guessing out of 13 years, standing charge wouldn't take too much off, or batteries.

    Pity these prices and availability weren't there 10 years ago when we moved into our house. At the time we had a quick look, and the average was minimum 12 000 turbine + all installation and other costs.

    My and other rural dwellers (not all, but some), plus some companies' footprints would be greatly reduced, and the need for windfarms for city dwellers and rural (who for whatever reason cannot or will not opt for this) would also be kept at an acceptable, reasonable level.


    Less footprint from a few, less windfarms needed for the others...
    Less energy transmission infrastructure ?


    edit : and I'm not suggesting subsidies for people who wish to change to micro-energy production (although with savings in other areas they would be more than likely be comfortably feasible), but a different direction, maybe information and encouragement to make the switch ( ;) ), a different policy.


  • #946
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Mountainsandh wrote: »

    edit : and I'm not suggesting subsidies for people who wish to change to micro-energy production

    Why not?


  • #947
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Blahblah2012 wrote: »
    And how much do you think the above will cost?

    A €3.2 billion investment in domestic harvesting would make it affordable for anyone that wants it.
    Apart from PV , microgeneration is limited to rural dwellers with good sites.

    It's an option for a small minority. Urban dwellers need not apply. Rural poor need not apply.

    So how can it be a solution for a whole country ???


  • #948
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Apart from PV , microgeneration is limited to rural dwellers with good sites.

    Rubbish


    Check the planning part.
    http://www.windturbines.ie/domestic/fitting.htm

    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    It's an option for a small minority. Urban dwellers need not apply. Rural poor need not apply.

    More bollôxology
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    So how can it be a solution for a whole country ???

    And your alternative is a €3.2 billion investment to supply the British with clean power


  • #949
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Blahblah2012 wrote: »
    Rubbish


    Check the planning part.
    http://www.windturbines.ie/domestic/fitting.htm
    Read the bit about the distances you need to be away from your neighbours.

    Rules out most urban users.


  • #950
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Read the bit about the distances you need to be away from your neighbours.

    Rules out most urban users.

    Well I did mention group schemes for that scenario.


  • #951
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Blahblah2012 wrote: »
    Well I did mention group schemes for that scenario.
    scheme.

    AFAIK There's only one.


  • Advertisement
  • #952
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    scheme.

    AFAIK There's only one.

    Agreed. A €3.2 billion SCHEME to supply the British with clean power is a SCHEME!!!


    And you refuse to acknowledge who you represent.

    Capt'n midshîte..the puff of air between two shîtes!!


  • #953
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,141 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Blahblah2012 wrote: »
    Agreed. A €3.2 billion SCHEME to supply the British with clean power is a SCHEME!!!


    And you refuse to acknowledge who you represent.

    Capt'n midshîte..the puff of air between two shîtes!!

    When you lose an argument on a forum, I find it's better to just stop replying than to resort to name calling ;)


  • #954
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Cienciano wrote: »
    When you lose an argument on a forum, I find it's better to just stop replying than to resort to name calling ;)

    Of course. You/capt'n midshîte are VICTIMS.


    Yawn.........

    Maybe you should give up smoking the gange!!!



    last week
    20/01/2014 13:28
    Cienciano
    Registered User
    Would love if they legalised it here. Some simple things can be enjoyable after a smoke. Putting on headphones with some decent music and going for a stroll around town is great.


  • #955
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,721 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Somebody's really not covering themselves in glory here.


  • #956
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,141 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Blahblah2012 wrote: »
    Of course. You/capt'n midshîte are VICTIMS.


    Yawn.........

    Maybe you should give up smoking the gange!!!



    last week
    20/01/2014 13:28
    Cienciano
    Registered User
    Would love if they legalised it here. Some simple things can be enjoyable after a smoke. Putting on headphones with some decent music and going for a stroll around town is great.
    Give up? Haven't had a smoke in about 12 years. It's unlike you to get your facts wrong ;)


  • #957
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Maybe you should give up smoking the gange!!!

    Cienciano wrote: »
    Give up? Haven't had a smoke in about 12 years. It's unlike you to get your facts wrong ;)

    last week
    20/01/2014 13:28
    Cienciano
    Registered User
    Would love if they legalised it here. Some simple things can be enjoyable after a smoke. Putting on headphones with some decent music and going for a stroll around town is great.



    We can only take your word for it and considering your above post..it's questionable!!

    It seems to be still affecting you!


  • #958
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Somebody's really not covering themselves in glory here.

    Well there's no smoke(pardon the pun) without fire.


  • #959
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,721 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Blahblah2012 wrote: »
    Well there's no smoke(pardon the pun) without fire.


    Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't give you free rein to insult them or accuse them of being a "shill"


  • #960
    Blahblah2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 397 ✭✭Blahblah2012


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't give you free rein to insult them or accuse them of being a "shill"

    I didn't use free rein. I called a spade a spade. The shills(as you call them) don't deny their status!!


  • Advertisement
  • #961
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,721 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Blahblah2012 wrote: »
    I didn't use free rein. I called a spade a spade. The shills(as you call them) don't deny their status!!

    See, now this is just semantics. Just because someone doesn't refute your unfounded accusation, that doesn't make your accustaion ring true.
    Digging up posters' post history to try and further your case is pretty pathetic.


Advertisement