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OK, so you're an atheist. What next?

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Comments

  • #182
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    both parts of that statement can't be true. You can't be infinitely merciful if you condemn someone to eternal torment. It's double-think.
    ... and you can't be infinitely just if you don't.
    ... so it logically comes down to whether one avails of God's infinite justice or mercy ... and I know which one I'm availing of !!!:D


  • #183
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,151 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... and you can't be infinitely just if you don't.
    ... so it logically comes down to whether one avails of God's infinite justice or mercy ... and I know which one I'm availing of !!!:D

    that makes no sense. You can't be infinitely just and infinitely merciful. Sometimes mercy is given and it isn't just, in much the same way that always being just can make the person unmerciful. You've just made your doublethink infinitely worse.


    And mercy isn't something to be availed of, it's given. Especially if someone is supposedly infinitely merciful. God can allow me into Heaven irrespective if I believe or not if he is infinitely merciful.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #184
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    ...would that prove the existence of Frosty?
    No ... but it would prove that some Atheists in foxholes pray ... which has been the subject of heated debate on this thread!!!:)


  • #185
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Jeez, JC, don't you ever get tired of saying the same thing all the time?

    Like, it's been ten years or something.

    //sheesh


  • #186
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    bumper234 wrote: »
    So my poor Father is in heaven but his wife and son are burning in eternal fires of hell. That's not heaven for him.
    I don't know about either your father or mother ... and you have it within your power to avoid a hot eternity.
    ... so this could have a very happy ending ... for everyone involved.:cool:


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  • #187
    jjpep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭jjpep


    J C wrote: »
    ... Christians also don't feel guilty about doing things that they enjoy that causes no harm to anyone else or themselves either ... and they believe in God.:D

    Gay sex? Masterbation? Having a lie in on Sundays? Eating pig products?


  • #188
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,151 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    I don't know about either your father or mother ... and you have it within your power to avoid a hot eternity.
    ... so this could have a very happy ending ... for everyone involved.:cool:
    whoa! Someone is more powerful than an infinitely just deity? Impressive.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #189
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,276 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    J C wrote: »
    No ... but it would prove that some Atheists in foxholes pray ... which has been the subject of heated debate on this thread!!!:)

    I'm sure the claim was that there are NO atheists in foxholes, and that this somehow implies something to do with ellipses or biscuits or gods. Or something.


  • #190
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    that makes no sense. You can't be infinitely just and infinitely merciful. Sometimes mercy is given and it isn't just, in much the same way that always being just can make the person unmerciful. You've just made your doublethink infinitely worse.


    And mercy isn't something to be availed of, it's given. Especially if someone is supposedly infinitely merciful. God can allow me into Heaven irrespective if I believe or not if he is infinitely merciful.
    Mercy can only be given to somebody who asks for it ... it cannot actually be given to somebody who doesn't ask for it.
    Infinite justice demands infinite punishment ... on either the guilty party or on the Judge, if he decides to pardon the guilty person and pay the fine himself.


  • #191
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    Jeez, JC, don't you ever get tired of saying the same thing all the time?

    Like, it's been ten years or something.

    //sheesh
    That also applies to you guys!!!:)


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  • #192
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    jjpep wrote: »
    Gay sex? Masterbation? Having a lie in on Sundays? Eating pig products?
    Different strokes ... for different folks ... I guess.:)


  • #193
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    whoa! Someone is more powerful than an infinitely just deity? Impressive.
    ... yes ... and infinitely just and merciful God ... awesome!!!:)


  • #194
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,151 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    Mercy can only be given to somebody who asks for it ... it cannot actually be given to somebody who doesn't ask for it.
    Infinite justice demands infinite punishment ... on either the guilty party or on the Judge, if he decides to pardon the guilty person and pay the fine himself.

    nonsense. Mercy can given without it being asked. Countless books and movies have characters that act in such a merciful way, a way that seems to be impossible for your god.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #195
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,151 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... yes ... and infinitely just and merciful God ... awesome!!!:)

    you clearly didn't understand my post. You said the quoted poster could avoid the punishment from your infinitely just god. So your god is either toothless or unjust.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #196
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    you clearly didn't understand my post. You said the quoted poster could avoid the punishment from your infinitely just god. So your god is either toothless or unjust.
    He is both 'toothed' and just ... but also merciful.:)


  • #197
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,151 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    He is both 'toothed' and just ... but also merciful.:)

    not based on your answers thus far.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #198
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    nonsense. Mercy can given without it being asked. Countless books and movies have characters that act in such a merciful way, a way that seems to be impossible for your god.
    Mercy and pardon cannot be extended to a gulty person who doesn't ask for them ... as it wouldn't be just to do so.
    That is why prisoners who refuse to admit their crimes and ask for pardon continue to languish in jail long after they could be released on parole.
    In the case of 'lifers' who do this ... it can mean that they spend their entire lives in prison.


  • #199
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    J C wrote: »
    Mercy and pardon cannot be extended to a gulty person who doesn't ask for them ... as it wouldn't be just to do so.
    That is why prisoners who refuse to admit their crimes and ask for pardon continue to languish in jail long after they could be released on parole.
    In the case of 'lifers' who do this ... it can mean that they spend their entire lives in prison.


  • #200
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    endacl wrote: »
    Do you have anything more profound to contribute to the debate?

    ... or is this yet another way of 'throwing in the towel' ... something that occurs a lot ... on these threads, when I'm about!!!:D

    ... and I see the thread name has now been changed ... so 'the towel has truly been thrown in' on what Atheists can't do ... because they don't believe in God!!!:D


  • #201
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,546 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Jernal I'm afraid you've lost me on this title change. What was this originally? :confused:


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  • #202
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    An infinitely merciful being would be merciful to those who didn't ask for mercy. Otherwise, it's not infinitely merciful.
    It wouldn't be infinitely merciful to impose mercy on somebody who doesn't want it ... and it certainly wouldn't be infinitely just.


  • #203
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    I see we can add mercy to the ever growing list of concepts that are completely over your head then.
    ... the problem is that you are focussed on one thing (mercy) to the exclusion of equally important issues like the free will (to reject mercy) ... and justice (exacting full vengeance for wrongs done).


  • #204
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Jernal I'm afraid you've lost me on this title change. What was this originally? :confused:

    A&A free money and car giveaway. Every member that posted in the original thread has by now received their brand new car. The new title now reflects the current content of the thread. Thank you again for choosing discussion on the A&A forum.


  • #205
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,546 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Jernal wrote: »
    A&A free money and car giveaway. Every member that posted in the original thread has by now received their brand new car. The new title now reflects the current content of the thread. Thank you again for choosing discussion on the A&A forum.

    Fair enough! You go offline for a few hours... Did a thread split or something? Completely lost so I shall unfollow.


  • #206
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    J C wrote: »
    It wouldn't be infinitely merciful to impose mercy on somebody who doesn't want it ... and it certainly wouldn't be infinitely just.

    It's not very merciful to condemn people to suffer for eternity just because you didn't give them any evidence for your existence.


  • #207
    Doctor Strange
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭Doctor Strange


    J C wrote: »
    Do you have anything more profound to contribute to the debate?

    ... or is this yet another way of 'throwing in the towel' ... something that occurs a lot ... on these threads, when I'm about!!!:D

    ... and I see the thread name has now been changed ... so 'the towel has truly been thrown in' on what Atheists can't do ... because they don't believe in God!!!:D


    No, J C, we just get tired of speaking to a wall.

    You do nothing but ignore the substantial points put to you, use idiotic smilies, and type...... like..... this!!!!!

    This does not help your "arguments" (which have little to no merit in the first place). In all honestly, it makes your posts come across as a little slow.

    If you want an actual discussion, drop the gimmicky bull**** from your posts, and actually address the points put to you in a proper manner. Then we might get somewhere. Or you can ignore this advice and continue the next 10 years as a source of ridicule.


  • #208
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    DarBucks wrote: »
    No, J C, we just get tired of speaking to a wall.

    You do nothing but ignore the substantial points put to you, use idiotic smilies, and type...... like..... this!!!!!

    Dawkins puts it well when he describes debating creationists; "they just put their fingers in their ears and go La La La La La".

    P.S. Where are my oft requested details of your now mythical 'scientific qualifications' J C?


  • #209
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    J C wrote: »
    I don't know about either your father or mother ... and you have it within your power to avoid a hot eternity.
    ... so this could have a very happy ending ... for everyone involved.:cool:

    How?

    My Mother died an atheist, she didn't change her mind at the last minute and ask for a priest. No last minute confessions or asking any "God" for help she just died. My Father died a DEVOUT catholic, he went to mass every day did work in the church and went to confessions on a regular basis. If anyone was a shoe in for a spot in your heaven for following the rules then its my old Dad.

    So on the evidence provided to you, Do you think your "God" has allowed my atheist non believing Mother through the gates of "heaven" or do you think she went to hell? Don't be afraid to tell me what you think JC I won't get upset.


  • #210
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,276 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Jernal wrote: »
    A&A free money and car giveaway. Every member that posted in the original thread has by now received their brand new car. The new title now reflects the current content of the thread. Thank you again for choosing discussion on the A&A forum.

    A Toyota Ellipsis. And very nice too! Comes with built-in biscuits and free servicing for the first 2000 years.


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  • #211
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,582 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    J C wrote: »
    Why so? ... do you think that all just judges are 'wife-beaters'?

    No.

    But when an almighty deity who created everything in existence gives his creations Ten Commandments, Ten rules to live by or face eternal damnation burning in the pits of Hell, and the first three of those rules are variants on "Worship Me!"... That is not a just judge.

    According to God's own rules, it's not enough to live a good life. It's not enough to live selflessly. It's not enough to live for others. It's not enough to be one of the greatest humanitarians the world has ever seen. Because if you do all that, but don't worship God, you're condemned to Hell.

    Is that "just" to you? Is that fair? Is that merciful? Or are these the rules of a petty, insecure God?

    Rape isn't one of the commandments. Slavery isn't either. No, three separate rules on "I'm your only God", "Don't misuse my name", "Devote one day a week to me".

    "Just"? "Merciful"?

    I've seen more "just" judging on The X Factor.


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