Why is there so much Greed in Ireland?

Pinch Flat wrote: »

We're a society of individuals.

No we're not. We're socially intertwined.

rolliepoley wrote: »

An Irishman would sell his own mother for a few bob, and would just as quick hang his fellow comrades to save his slick sole.
Its rotten and inbedded and its not something that you can get rid of over night.

aprilmarch wrote: »

You are entirely right - we are very much a society of semi-autonomous barons.

What?

Speak for yourselves - really.

This is like being in a ****ing student bar discussion.

Oh you're so profound...!

aprilmarch wrote: »

What is your definition of anomie?

Flowery language.

Dundrum town center not open?

The irony is: I don't give a sh1t about shopping and labels and shoes and so on; it's possible not to be greedy yet still see through all the shyte-talk here about how "we" as a whole are particularly greedy.

rolliepoley wrote: »

Of course its profound have'nt we lived throught it;

Yes, that means all Irish men are as you described. but not you of course.

aprilmarch wrote: »

We are greedy.

Speak for thine self.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Having actually studied how religion affects society, you can disagree all you like. And I haven't a notion where the "excuse for lack of transparency in public office" comment is coming from.
Certain protestant faiths with a hugely frugal ethos make their societies less prone to greed.

I spent quite a long time studying political behaviour, political sociology and actually did research into corruption.
The religious argument is really greatly overstated in my opinion. It also often reflects notions (particularly from 19th century Britain) that they were superior due to religious beliefs.

Incidentally, I'd actually argue that the Church of England isn't exactly what you'd call a model of protestantism either. It's pretty much a slightly modified split from the Catholic Church with a few tweaks here and there. I've certainly never seen any great leanings towards pious frugality! If anything, it supported a lavish upper class and a ridged class system.

For example, one could argue that the nordic countries are 'protestant' and that's why they are so organised. However, one could equally argue that due to climate!

One study that I read looked at how colder countries in Europe tend to be less corrupt, more organised and generally better run because they have to be.

If you run things badly in Britain, Ireland or most of France at worst you'll be a little wet and uncomfortable and maybe miserable.

If you run things badly in Scandinavia or Germany a large % of the population risks death due to starvation / lack of heat.

If you run things badly in Italy or Spain to the point there's no roof on your house, you'd still be OK.

One would have to analyse how much of the behaviour in certain countries is just a developed social norm. Their religious observances may reflect their societies as their societies may reflect their religious observances.

..

In an Irish context you also have to factor the break from Britain and the civil war into the mix too. These took a lot of focus off the normal day-to-day running of the state. Attention was entirely focused on lofty issues of nationalism and constitutional questions.

Meanwhile, the day-to-day running of the country (a minor issue in comparison) was operating on autopilot and also on a shoe string (lacking staff, lacking resources, lacking money).
The result of that was you had charitable organisations (especially religious ones) stepping into the mix and accountability disappearing. There was an element of necessity at first which then became a power grab.

You also had a civil war mentality that impacted how people voted for several generations after independence. The FF vs FG divide was nothing to do with policy and everything to do with blind loyalty based on civil war issues.
The result of that was some very strange politics which has only really started to break down since the 1990s!

I think what you're seeing now is a generation that doesn't really view politics the way their grandparents did and a political system that's long forgotten the civil war.

A hell of a lot has changed in a very short time in Ireland.

Church influence has basically disappeared due to self-destructive behaviour and a sudden waking up of the public.

The electorate's not voting predictably anymore and Fianna Fail's been given an electoral hammering that's almost unprecedented in a western democracy due to their handling of the state's finances.

I am not as pessimistic about Ireland's society as some people on this forum are.

aprilmarch wrote: »

But I'm not.

Well then lose the "we". This place sounds like a f'ucking toilet at times.

I wasn't living in this country during the boom.
And I bet my bottom dollar that you did.

Yep, and didn't have the money to do any of the greed stuff, nor the interest.
I don't appreciate being called greedy when I'm anything but.

Although some "enlightened" folks here go on as if having stuff at all = greedy... from their laptops/smartphones.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yes, that means all Irish men are as you described. but not you of course.

That includes me, if you've lived your life throught it, some of it is bound to rub off.