DART punctuality - why is it so bad?

N64 · 12-01-2014 08:16PM #1

Between college and work, I use the DART every day and I am just wondering why the punctuality of the trains are so bad? . I've been cutting it very close when it comes to reaching college on time for the past few months because instead of the train arriving it's timetabled slot, it always seems to arrive between 5 - 10 minutes late. I've never seen it arrive at it's scheduled time (bar once or twice) The time remaining (on the real time information displays) always seems to get stuck.

I can understand why in Autumn , the trains were delayed (wheel slip) but now, where it isn't an issue anymore - why do the trains still run constantly late? I mainly use the service at off peak times, so It's not due to congestion I'd reckon

devnull · 12-01-2014 08:20PM

The 8.39 Dart to Howth from Connolly is always at least 6-7 minutes late and see the other thread, lately those real time displays have been out in the other direction for me!

corktina · 14-01-2014 09:45AM

Quite honestly, if you think almost all Darts are a few minutes late, you should take one a few minutes earlier to ensure you arrive at college on time. It's not as if you have three services a day like we have!

carlmango11 · 14-01-2014 09:55AM

corktina wrote: »

Quite honestly, if you think almost all Darts are a few minutes late, you should take one a few minutes earlier to ensure you arrive at college on time. It's not as if you have three services a day like we have!

This isn't an excuse though. I never understand why people try to justify sub-standard service just because a crappier one exists?

bumper234 · 14-01-2014 09:58AM

corktina wrote: »

Quite honestly, if you think almost all Darts are a few minutes late, you should take one a few minutes earlier to ensure you arrive at college on time. It's not as if you have three services a day like we have!

But then why have a timetable? Dublin bus is pretty much the same, I get the 4:05 bus home sometimes but that's if it arrives, If not the next is at 4:30 so a 25 minute wait (rain, sleet, wind?) for the next one.

corktina · 14-01-2014 10:04AM

carlmango11 wrote: »

This isn't an excuse though. I never understand why people try to justify sub-standard service just because a crappier one exists?

I didn't say it was an excuse, but it is your own responsibility to get to work/college on time and a contingency few minutes should be built into your schedule.

I don't think too many people on here will regard me as an IE apologist!

cdebru · 14-01-2014 11:03AM

It sounds like an unrealistic timetable to me if everyday it is 5 to 10 minutes late then the real running time is 5 to 10 minutes longer than the timetable says. No real excuse for that kind of sloppy timetabling when you are running on your own rail with only your own traffic. S

The question is why do IE persist with a timetable they can't keep too?

Cool Mo D · 14-01-2014 11:42AM

The DART is one of the most lackadaisical train services I've ever been on. Most DART trips seem to spend more time stopped at empty platforms with their doors open than actually moving. The approach to Connolly from Clontarf road seems to take an inordinate amount of time - whether or not there's a driver change. And journey times have actually gotten significantly worse since the DART began in the 80's.

kryptonmight · 14-01-2014 11:56AM

I took the Dart a few times recently and found it frustrating due to the "leaves on the line" issue. I also found it bizarre that the schedule had something like a 12 minute gap between south bound darts at times during peak hours.

TheDoctor · 14-01-2014 12:03PM

Don't get me started, get the 8.36 Dart from Blackrock to Connolly. It is due to arrive in Connolly at 8.54 but in the year and a bit I have used it, it has never been in before 8.56.

In the run up to Christmas, the "unexpected rail conditions" aka leaves falling off trees in the autumn, resulted in a record late arrival of 9.12 and consistant arrival of the 8.54 betwenn 9.05 and 9.10.

Another issue that in the middle or rush hour commute, that there is no DART between 8.24 and 8.36.

TheDoctor · 14-01-2014 12:05PM

Just to note that it's current board is advertising for my trip that 75% of trains for a 18-20 minute journey arrive no more than 5 minutes (so a quarter of the trip) late.

corktina · 14-01-2014 01:26PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Don't get me started, get the 8.36 Dart from Blackrock to Connolly. It is due to arrive in Connolly at 8.54 but in the year and a bit I have used it, it has never been in before 8.56.

In the run up to Christmas, the "unexpected rail conditions" aka leaves falling off trees in the autumn, resulted in a record late arrival of 9.12 and consistant arrival of the 8.54 betwenn 9.05 and 9.10.

Another issue that in the middle or rush hour commute, that there is no DART between 8.24 and 8.36.

omg, a 12 minute wait.... (we have just three buses a day and two of them you'd have to change buses to get to Cork City

TheDoctor · 14-01-2014 02:03PM

Always funny to hear people who don't have a clue comment

corktina · 14-01-2014 02:08PM

not having a clue? Twas you who moaned about a train being 2 minutes late! :-)

TheDoctor · 14-01-2014 02:12PM

It was a complaint about the liberal nature of the timetables

2 minutes late is a very good day

Johnnio13 · 14-01-2014 02:15PM

this has been annoying me for years.
The IR website is now showing +1/2/3 depending on how late the train is going to be. Before the southbound dart leaves Howth there is +1 added to Bayside and Raheny. But the train won't arrive in Clontarf at the advertised time +1 - it will more likely be 4/5mins late. They are trying to cover their stats which are a load of bollix. 96% of trains arriving on time...

Also, the rush hour thing, trains time are ridiculous. Between Grand Canal and Clontarf is the majority of rush hour commuters. But there are gaps of 20mins between trains leading to massive over crowding between these stations and subsequently on commuter lines.

rant over.

TheDoctor · 14-01-2014 02:17PM

Ah yes the +1/+2/+3 etc on the app

Don't get me started

AngryLips · 14-01-2014 03:20PM

carlmango11 wrote: »

This isn't an excuse though. I never understand why people try to justify sub-standard service just because a crappier one exists?

I think the train is only officially considered late, according to IE statistics, if it is running at least ten minutes behind schedule.

Johnnio13 · 23-01-2014 06:07PM

Standing in clontarf waiting for the advertised 17.06 dart only to see the platform time is 14 mins later than the website. No change to website though. Wonder are the punctuality stats being pulled from website?

Cool Mo D · 23-01-2014 06:16PM

Johnnio13 wrote: »

Standing in clontarf waiting for the advertised 17.06 dart only to see the platform time is 14 mins later than the website. No change to website though. Wonder are the punctuality stats being pulled from website?

The train only counts as late if it's late arriving at its destination. It can be 10 minutes late to every stop en route and still be counted as punctual if it arrives at the last stop close to on time. And the timetables give each train much more time than they need to get from the second last to last stop.

bikeman1 · 23-01-2014 06:22PM

Johnnio13 wrote: »

Standing in clontarf waiting for the advertised 17.06 dart only to see the platform time is 14 mins later than the website. No change to website though. Wonder are the punctuality stats being pulled from website?

According to the train record the 17:06 left at 17:06:54 today? I'm confused at your problem?

That train is usually always on time leaving Clontarf Rd.

Jamie2k9 · 23-01-2014 07:28PM

bikeman1 wrote: »

According to the train record the 17:06 left at 17:06:54 today? I'm confused at your problem?

That train is usually always on time leaving Clontarf Rd.

I think the problem is clear, the OP was a few minutes late and just assumed the 17.06 was late and blamed IE for it.

kryptonmight · 23-01-2014 09:14PM

Johnnio13 wrote: »

this has been annoying me for years.
The IR website is now showing +1/2/3 depending on how late the train is going to be. Before the southbound dart leaves Howth there is +1 added to Bayside and Raheny. But the train won't arrive in Clontarf at the advertised time +1 - it will more likely be 4/5mins late. They are trying to cover their stats which are a load of bollix. 96% of trains arriving on time...

Also, the rush hour thing, trains time are ridiculous. Between Grand Canal and Clontarf is the majority of rush hour commuters. But there are gaps of 20mins between trains leading to massive over crowding between these stations and subsequently on commuter lines.

rant over.

Why don't they have more frequent services? Is it a lack of drivers and/or trains? Or is it some sort of signalling/network capacity issue? I saw some sort of press release recently saying they were upgrading tracks, and signalling systems etc that means they could run 20 trains an hour. For some reason that didn't sound like a lot, but maybe it is.

Do they still have that scheduled half hour gap between services on a Sunday?

Sam Russell · 25-01-2014 08:37PM

kryptonmight wrote: »

Why don't they have more frequent services? Is it a lack of drivers and/or trains? Or is it some sort of signalling/network capacity issue? I saw some sort of press release recently saying they were upgrading tracks, and signalling systems etc that means they could run 20 trains an hour. For some reason that didn't sound like a lot, but maybe it is.

Do they still have that scheduled half hour gap between services on a Sunday?

I've wondered the same myself. They certainly have enough rolling stock, and could recruit more drivers.

It takes about an hour to get from one end of the Dart to the other so a 10 min service 6 trains in each direction, 12 by 8 is 96 coaches. They got 80 coaches at launch in 1983, and as much again later so no shortage. (I dont know the exact numbers, perhaps someone who knows could enlighten us).

As for drivers, there is no shortage of unemployed people so it is a matter of cost and training (if you pardon the pun).

The problem with signalling relates to north of Connolly so that could be the reason other than why should they. They could run some services Connolly to Bray to increase frequency.

20 trains an hour is one every three minutes, so that is a lot.

More frequent trains could mean shorter trains (during off-peak), thus saving the extra cost of running costs at the expense of extra drivers but better service. They could also split trains at, say Dun Laoghaire and Kilbarrack, so they can increasy capacity or frequency. The Kilbarrack split would serve Howth and Malahide, while the DL split would reduce capacity from DL to Bray. Alternatively, a split at Bray would allow the Greystones frequency to increase.

I'm sure IR have thought of all this and have a good reason for not trying it out. I would just like to know if they have.

TheBandicoot · 25-01-2014 08:56PM

I'm not sure there is demand for that level of service. As it stands the 15 minute off peak service struggles to fill 2 carriages.

This might change in the future as increased Luas connectivity, DART Underground, Metro North and possible BRT helps deliver more passengers onto DART, and hopefully at that stage the excess capacity can be mobilised to deal with the demand.

Sam Russell · 26-01-2014 01:04AM

More frequent = more passengers.
Faster transit time = more passengers
More reliable service = more passengers
Lower fares = more passengers

And the converse.

Jamie2k9 · 26-01-2014 02:02AM

Sam Russell wrote: »

More frequent = more passengers.
Faster transit time = more passengers
More reliable service = more passengers
Lower fares = more passengers

And the converse.

More Staff = Cost
More Electricity = Cost
More Maintenance = Cost

Having 4 services per hour is more than enough off peak, numbers have never justified the level of service off peak.

There could be some demand at peak times however I think it will be a few years before increased services are justified.

Sam Russell · 26-01-2014 02:09PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

More Staff = Cost
More Electricity = Cost
More Maintenance = Cost

Having 4 services per hour is more than enough off peak, numbers have never justified the level of service off peak.

There could be some demand at peak times however I think it will be a few years before increased services are justified.

Yes, it is all a balance. It needs investigating and it needs experimenting.

Running extra trains only costs more if there are more carriages involved. Same applies to maintenance. Cueerently Dart trains are random lengths during the day - a 2-car followed by an 8 car followed by a 2 car.

Running time needs tightening and the service would improve if this was done.

More staff would be paid for by increased passengers. Luas packs them in with a 7 min service.

Revenue protection needs to be implemnted by more travelling inspectors. Too many people evade fares, and ordinary staff need to be empowered to couteract this.

jasonbourne.cs · 27-01-2014 11:43AM

I get the 640 from Bray to Grand Canal Dock Monday to Friday its due into GCD at 7:14 , i cant remember the last time it actually arrived at this time .

one morning in December the dart hadn't arrived at 640 and the overhead were showing a further 10 minutes before it arrived in Bray let alone departed , one of other daily commuters asked an employee what was happening , he responded saying " it was a few minutes late "

the commuter looked at him in disbelief and pointed out it was 10 mins not "a few" the Irishrail guy just shrugged and walked off ...... :rolleyes:

Johnnio13 · 19-02-2014 05:58PM

jasonbourne.cs wrote: »

I get the 640 from Bray to Grand Canal Dock Monday to Friday its due into GCD at 7:14 , i cant remember the last time it actually arrived at this time .

one morning in December the dart hadn't arrived at 640 and the overhead were showing a further 10 minutes before it arrived in Bray let alone departed , one of other daily commuters asked an employee what was happening , he responded saying " it was a few minutes late "

the commuter looked at him in disbelief and pointed out it was 10 mins not "a few" the Irishrail guy just shrugged and walked off ...... :rolleyes:

The last 14 days I have had to get the dart. This is day 14 and not one train I've gotten has been on time and today the 16.51 hasn't even bothered showing up and the website is showing it on time. Next train it does say is on time on the website but god only knows. Back on the bike on Monday and can't wait. F@cking IR such balls

Victor · 22-02-2014 09:51PM

Johnnio13 wrote: »

F@cking IR such balls

Please tone down your language.

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DART punctuality - why is it so bad?

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