Corporal Punishment

Femme_Fatale · 12-01-2014 11:43PM

Grumpypants wrote: »

If you are using fear, the threat of physical violence and humiliation to control your kids then you are failing as a parent.

How about being patient and talking to them for a minute instead.

The situation in question is the child having a tantrum, being impossible to reason with; it is a very last resort to give them a light smack on the bum.

I wouldn't like doing it but I can understand it coming to that point. And people who compare it to a battering need to cop on.

Tasden · 12-01-2014 11:49PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

The situation in question is the child having a tantrum, being impossible to reason with; it is a very last resort to give them a light smack on the bum.

I wouldn't like doing it but I can understand it coming to that point. And people who compare it to a battering need to cop on.

But you can't reason with a child having a tantrum. And if your child is having tantrums then surely you should look at preventing them or making it clear they're not acceptable by disciplining other ways. If its only a light smack then what is the benefit of doing it?
I do agree that people comparing it to abuse or battering is nonsense.

Femme_Fatale · 13-01-2014 12:21AM

Heat of the moment, desperate last resort I guess. I'm not a parent but I thought all toddlers had tantrums.

In an ideal world, all parents would be calm at all times, but even fantastically patient and chilled parents find that impossible all the time.

Paddy Cow · 13-01-2014 12:31AM

If giving a child a smack does them no harm, then why do parents who use smacking as a means of discipline go bat sh!t crazy at even the thought of another adult smacking their child?

13-01-2014 01:56AM

I'm really on the fence about this.

I was slapped as a child. When my mother did it, it was generally a light slap on the bum or wrist and it didn't do any lasting damage to me. However my dad very occasionally beat me and that has left lasting scars.

Of course it would great if you could resolve everything by reasoning with the child but I don't know if it's possible in all cases.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

If giving a child a smack does them no harm, then why do parents who use smacking as a means of discipline go bat sh!t crazy at even the thought of another adult smacking their child?

To be fair, parents go bat**** crazy at the thought of another adult doing anything to their precious little brat. I don't know how many times I've wanted to tell off a child but I know I'd get an earful from the parent and probably the whole "you'd understand if you had kids" lecture.

Paddy Cow · 13-01-2014 02:16AM

Karsini wrote: »

To be fair, parents go bat**** crazy at the thought of another adult doing anything to their precious little brat. I don't know how many times I've wanted to tell off a child but I know I'd get an earful from the parent and probably the whole "you'd understand if you had kids" lecture.

A parent who uses the "time out" technique is not likely to go bat sh!t crazy if another adult uses the same technique, provided it was called for. I just think that if your disciplinary method is not something you would be happy for other adults to implement, then maybe you need to look at yourself. Why is it ok for you (generic "you", not you personally) to smack the child but not anyone else?

strobe · 13-01-2014 09:45AM

Anyone that hits a kid is either lazy, ignorant or selfish. Or some combination of the three.

How do the "sometimes it's the only option as a last resort" people explain every competent creche and childminder never having to use this last resort?

Go sit in on a day in a good creche sometime. No kids being hit. Disobedient hyper kids becoming well behaved within a couple of days without violence or the threat of it ever rearing its ugly head. Tantrums rare and dealt with quickly and non violently at all times.

I presume we're going with the working assumption that some kind of gypsy magic or unicorn wishes is the explanation for this, rather than a lack of ignorance, selfishness and laziness when it comes to dealing with children?

dr.fuzzenstein · 13-01-2014 09:53AM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Lucky indeed is the parent with the perfect child.:rolleyes:

Well, maybe it's not a case of bad child, but bad parent?

tritium · 13-01-2014 09:54AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Heat of the moment, desperate last resort I guess. I'm not a parent but I thought all toddlers had tantrums.

In an ideal world, all parents would be calm at all times, but even fantastically patient and chilled parents find that impossible all the time.

Thats the point. Slapping a child is more often about the parents inability to hold their emotions in control than anything the child has done.

Its all well and good saying it's only a light smack. By the same logic the man or woman who hits and abuses their partner is alright once there's no bruises - using violence or the threat of violence to control someone by fear is never acceptable.

Oranage2 · 13-01-2014 09:54AM

I don't have children but I do work as a teacher and I swear my job would be so much easier if I could hit some of them a box!

tritium · 13-01-2014 09:56AM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Lucky indeed is the parent with the perfect child.:rolleyes:

Lucky indeed the child with a parent who isn't too lazy and ignorant to see past violence as a solution

Bogan · 13-01-2014 03:42PM

I wouldn't go as far as using things but would use my hand on rare times when needed.

Grumpypants · 14-01-2014 02:51AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

The situation in question is the child having a tantrum, being impossible to reason with; it is a very last resort to give them a light smack on the bum.

I wouldn't like doing it but I can understand it coming to that point. And people who compare it to a battering need to cop on.

No one is comparing it to a battering even a light smack is a crapy thing to do. If you made a mistake in work and your boss grabbed you put you over his knee and gave you a light tap on ass do you think you would be impacted by that?

People always have these excuses like tantrums, putting their hand in a fire or running out on to a road.

Why are parents putting their kids near fires and dangerous roads?! And if your kid is so upset they can't control themselves then maybe that's a sign to take them out of the situation. That's easy to do you pick them up and move them. They are small children not elephants.

MonaPizza · 14-01-2014 03:15AM

kellaman123 wrote: »

Is there a place for corporal punishment of children in the home today? I would have got the wooden spoon from mum and leather belt from dad growing up as would most of my mates, these days it's relatively unheard off!

Tough call.

On one hand it sends the message to the victim that violence produces results. On the other hand it has the benefit of having the victim empathize and not wish to assault or cause pain to others since the victim knows what it feels like.

I had a teacher once who was sparing with the slap but doled it out when he thought it was really justified. When called out one time by a parent whose kid got a clatter and who [the parent] recommended an alternative form of punishment such as detention, standing outside the door, cleaning the jacks, whatever, the teacher replied "Slap a kid and he'll forget it in a few hours. Humiliate him in front of his peers and he'll remember it for life."

I don't agree that violence is productive when trying to teach (we used to get a leather for spelling errors) but sometimes it has the desired effect. My mother's friend was in Mass one time with her young son. The son was acting up and making noise and misbehaving. Before any of you start bleating about him not wanting to be there or some crap, the mother was no softie and he didn't act up at home. ... plus Mass is crap but that's besides the point. She picked him up, calmly walked with the squealing wretch out the back of the church and around the side, pulled his pants down and gave him two sharp slaps on his bare bum, pulled pants back up and marched back inside with him. Nothing was said during this episode. The little lad never cried, he was just parked back on the pew and stared in silence and never acted up again.

Now this is anecdotal evidence, I know, but whenever I was slapped by my mum which wasn't often I always had my granny's lap to run to when I was sobbing.
She made things better and when my mum cooled down I was given a kiss and maybe a biscuit.

MonaPizza · 14-01-2014 03:35AM

Grumpypants wrote: »

If you are using fear, the threat of physical violence and humiliation to control your kids then you are failing as a parent.

How about being patient and talking to them for a minute instead.

Ever see a kid who could manipulate a parent?
Ever see a kid who got a kick out of pushing the boundaries to a parent's tolerance?
Ever see a kid who laughed at a parent's impotence in laying down the law and commanding respect?

Some parents can break the will of a stubborn and insolent child without resorting to corporal punishment. My brother in law is one...but he's exceptional. Most parents don't have that skill, patience or fortitude. And certainly most parents who are overworked or knackered don't have the time or patience to come up with some kind of crafty ploy to neutralise some little bollocks of a kid who's getting a kick out of pushing their buttons.

MonaPizza · 14-01-2014 03:41AM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

A parent who uses the "time out" technique is not likely to go bat sh!t crazy if another adult uses the same technique, provided it was called for. I just think that if your disciplinary method is not something you would be happy for other adults to implement, then maybe you need to look at yourself. Why is it ok for you (generic "you", not you personally) to smack the child but not anyone else?

"time out" technique !!!

pass the vomit bag.

Paddy Cow · 14-01-2014 03:56AM

MonaPizza wrote: »

"time out" technique !!!

pass the vomit bag.

Time out works. It doesn't leave a kid sobbing and in need of comfort from nanny and then biscuits from the mother when she calms down. Any form of discipline which requires comfort and treats afterwards is a joke.

osarusan · 14-01-2014 04:06AM

I was thinking about this recently.

I was in a shop with a small play area, looking after our children while my wife bought something. There was another father there, and he decided to leave after a few minutes, so he called his children to get ready. They didn't want to go, and the older one in particular took their time getting ready, so eventually he told them he'd call the police on them.

He even took out his phone and pretended to dial, and the reaction from his older child (maybe 7) was incredible. Simply terrified. I mean terrified.

We often see a link being made between physical punishment and the use of fear, humiliation, betrayal, and so on, and we look at other ways of disciplining as being better than that, but in this case, I'm not so sure.

The threat of being abandoned to the police was one the child obviously took seriously.

foggy_lad · 14-01-2014 04:30AM

strobe wrote: »

Anyone that hits a kid is either lazy, ignorant or selfish. Or some combination of the three.

How do the "sometimes it's the only option as a last resort" people explain every competent creche and childminder never having to use this last resort?

Go sit in on a day in a good creche sometime. No kids being hit. Disobedient hyper kids becoming well behaved within a couple of days without violence or the threat of it ever rearing its ugly head. Tantrums rare and dealt with quickly and non violently at all times.

I presume we're going with the working assumption that some kind of gypsy magic or unicorn wishes is the explanation for this, rather than a lack of ignorance, selfishness and laziness when it comes to dealing with children?

Children of all ages conform when put into school/creche settings as they want to be doing the same as their peers and are afraid of missing out on the good stuff if they misbehave, It is a wildly different situation when the same little angels are at home or in tesco with mum or waiting at the bank machine with dad.

Corporal Punishment

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