Corporal Punishment

kellaman123

Is there a place for corporal punishment of children in the home today? I would have got the wooden spoon from mum and leather belt from dad growing up as would most of my mates, these days it's relatively unheard off!

Hande hoche!

The wooden spoon was the nuclear option.

anncoates

I'm just going to copy and paste my opinion from the last 65 threads on the issue.

problemchimp

No need for it

Sir Humphrey Appleby

I would say it has a place.

Annasopra

No

/End thread

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

If my little one steps out of line I say, "that's it, the match is going on for the next 3 hours!".

I have Match of the Day DVR'd so it takes only a few seconds to get the theme tune playing on the tv. She always does what I've asked her to do before it ends.

Who knew the Match of the Day theme tune could evoke such horror in a small child.

Grumpypants

As a parent it is often difficult to find time between Jeremy Kyle episodes to try things like raising your kids, teaching them right from wrong or talking to them like they are people.

So when they do something wrong (despite not understanding that it's wrong as no one ever took the time to explain it to them) the parent can use this form of punishment to physically hurt them, this physical pain coupled with the humiliation will leave lasting scars on the child that will last well into adulthood giving good "value for money" .

This does teach them valuable lessons like when you are frustrated you hit people, but only people who are smaller than you, trust you completely, never asked to be put in this scenario and have nowhere to escape too.

When they grow up this abuse ensures a healthy mental block and they think "I got hit and it never did me any harm" so the cycle repeats itself.

Warning*

Don't hit dogs this is against the law.

Recent changes in the law means it is no longer ok to hit your wife either. Even with a small stick.

Hitting other people in the street, as well as being dangerous is also illegal.

Crazy times we live in , what does society expect that parents start parenting? Luckily battering your kids is still perfectly legal.

kneemos

Grumpypants wrote: »

As a parent it is often difficult to find time between Jeremy Kyle episodes to try things like raising your kids, teaching them right from wrong or talking to them like they are people.

So when they do something wrong (despite not understanding that it's wrong as no one ever took the time to explain it to them) the parent can use this form of punishment to physically hurt them, this physical pain coupled with the humiliation will leave lasting scars on the child that will last well into adulthood giving good "value for money" .

This does teach them valuable lessons like when you are frustrated you hit people, but only people who are smaller than you, trust you completely, never asked to be put in this scenario and have nowhere to escape too.

When they grow up this abuse ensures a healthy mental block and they think "I got hit and it never did me any harm" so the cycle repeats itself.

Warning*

Don't hit dogs this is against the law.

Recent changes in the law means it is no longer ok to hit your wife either. Even with a small stick.

Hitting other people in the street, as well as being dangerous is also illegal.

Crazy times we live in , what does society expect that parents start parenting? Luckily battering your kids is still perfectly legal.

I agree,if they're not bleeding you haven't got their attention.

stefan idiot jones

Just putting this out there if the law changes in the next twenty years.

I am a non drinking, non smoking, placid vegetarian in my forties. I have no enemies or axe to grind. I genuinely look for the good in people........however........


If the death penalty was introduced, count me in to be the executioner. Whether it be hitting the switch, tapping the vein, strangulation or swinging the axe I really think that I could live with myself getting rid of the real vermin.

Sorry, back to the thread.

LETHAL LADY

It was the norm when I was in primary school. My teacher for first and second class had a glass eye and crossed over toes and a cane made from a pared back ash. I think she got off on using it, the cow. I'd love to meet her down a dark alley now.

problemchimp

Good post, I fear this might go over a few heads.

artanevilla

Capital punishment would teach them a better lesson.

problemchimp

stefan idiot jones wrote: »

Just putting this out there if the law changes in the next twenty years.

I am a non drinking, non smoking, placid vegetarian in my forties. I have no enemies or axe to grind. I genuinely look for the good in people........however........


If the death penalty was introduced, count me in to be the executioner. Whether it be hitting the switch, tapping the vein, strangulation or swinging the axe I really think that I could live with myself getting rid of the real vermin.

Sorry, back to the thread.

Good user name!

jjpep

It' amazes me that the most defenceless people in society are the only ones that it's legal to assault.

No, I'm not in favour of people hitting their kids. If you can't explain to your kid that they're doing something wrong your either an idiot or incapable of controlling your temper.

kneemos

problemchimp wrote: »

Good post, I fear this might go over a few heads.

Which post?

problemchimp

kneemos wrote: »

Which post?

Sorry, post 8 by Grumpypants. Thanks

LETHAL LADY

I worked with a woman who had one child. I was about to go on my first maternity leave (irrelevant I know) and she told me how she punished her only daughter by chasing her with a wooden spoon. I didn't like her anyway but her comment confirmed my thoughts. What a ****ing bitch thing to do to your child, caustic ****.

SeanW

jjpep wrote: »

If you can't explain to your kid that they're doing something wrong your either an idiot or incapable of controlling your temper.

What if the kid knows well that what they're doing is wrong?

tritium

I've been fortunate enough to see Ireland move from being a place where it was acceptable to beat children. Then move from a place where it was acceptable to beat women (not fully there but close). And I'm confident well soon face up properly to the reality of male domestic violence victims

Why would I ever want to go backwards on that op?

Femme_Fatale

Grumpypants wrote: »

As a parent it is often difficult to find time between Jeremy Kyle episodes to try things like raising your kids, teaching them right from wrong or talking to them like they are people.

So when they do something wrong (despite not understanding that it's wrong as no one ever took the time to explain it to them) the parent can use this form of punishment to physically hurt them, this physical pain coupled with the humiliation will leave lasting scars on the child that will last well into adulthood giving good "value for money" .

This does teach them valuable lessons like when you are frustrated you hit people, but only people who are smaller than you, trust you completely, never asked to be put in this scenario and have nowhere to escape too.

When they grow up this abuse ensures a healthy mental block and they think "I got hit and it never did me any harm" so the cycle repeats itself.

Warning*

Don't hit dogs this is against the law.

Recent changes in the law means it is no longer ok to hit your wife either. Even with a small stick.

Hitting other people in the street, as well as being dangerous is also illegal.

Crazy times we live in , what does society expect that parents start parenting? Luckily battering your kids is still perfectly legal.

No it isn't.

And I see you deliberately used an extreme scenario of people who are crap at parenting in general.

Giving the child a light slap on the clothed arse as a very last resort is obviously not comparable to the above.

Daqster

Jesus Christ, no there is not room in the home for it.

You have you really lost the ability to be able to control your own children when you have to get a corporal in to punish them.

kellaman123

When I was 11 I decided it would be a good idea to rob 20 quid from my mothers purse. When my dad found out he took off his belt and gave me such a leathering I've never been stolen anything since, the lesson was learned and it never happened again!

Grumpypants

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

No it isn't.

And I see you deliberately used an extreme scenario of people who are crap at parenting in general.

Giving the child a light slap on the clothed arse as a very last resort is obviously not comparable to the above.

If you are using fear, the threat of physical violence and humiliation to control your kids then you are failing as a parent.

How about being patient and talking to them for a minute instead.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Grumpypants wrote: »

If you are using fear, the threat of physical violence and humiliation to control your kids then you are failing as a parent.

How about being patient and talking to them for a minute instead.

You clearly don't have kids.

Vincent Vega

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Who knew the Match of the Day theme tune could evoke such horror in a small child.

A challenger appears!

Tasden

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

You clearly don't have kids.

Ok, I don't know if that poster has kids or not, but from someone who is a parent- If you are using fear, the threat of physical violence and humiliation to control your kids then you are failing as a parent.How about being patient and talking to them for a minute instead.

I've never hit my child and don't intend to, obviously I can't guarantee I never will but I'd be taking a look at my own behavior, not my child's, if I ever feel the need to resort to slapping as a form of discipline. And I was hit as a child and I don't think it did me any harm really, but I don't think its right to hit a child.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Tasden wrote: »

Ok, I don't know if that poster has kids or not, but from someone who is a parent- If you are using fear, the threat of physical violence and humiliation to control your kids then you are failing as a parent.How about being patient and talking to them for a minute instead.

I've never hit my child and don't intend to, obviously I can't guarantee I never will but I'd be taking a look at my own behavior, not my child's, if I ever feel the need to resort to slapping as a form of discipline. And I was hit as a child and I don't think it did me any harm really, but I don't think its right to hit a child.

Lucky indeed is the parent with the perfect child.:rolleyes:

Tasden

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Lucky indeed is the parent with the perfect child.:rolleyes:

Where did I say any child is perfect? Nor is any parent. And I don't see how you came to that conclusion based on the fact that I don't hit her. Maybe its the fact I discipline her without hitting her that makes her well behaved.

Vincent Vega

Those brattish children you see around can offer a good window into who their parents are in private, and how they have parented.

All of our behaviour both towards and around a child is absorbed. They observe, they process, they learn, and often they replicate.

Just as if I was agitated by the behaviour of someone on the street or in a pub, I'd struggle to see the benefit in grabbing someone and hitting them, or even threatening to when there are always alternative ways to resolve an issue. There are also ways to prevent the issue occuring in the first place if you think hard enough.

Likewise, conditioning your child to fear physical punishment can stick in their mind, and have a lasting effect.

Failure to see these things is a failure in parenting.

Hitting is a cop out.

Tin Foil Hat

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

I would say it has a place.

In a Dickensian orphanage.

Femme_Fatale

Grumpypants wrote: »

If you are using fear, the threat of physical violence and humiliation to control your kids then you are failing as a parent.

How about being patient and talking to them for a minute instead.

The situation in question is the child having a tantrum, being impossible to reason with; it is a very last resort to give them a light smack on the bum.

I wouldn't like doing it but I can understand it coming to that point. And people who compare it to a battering need to cop on.

Tasden

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

The situation in question is the child having a tantrum, being impossible to reason with; it is a very last resort to give them a light smack on the bum.

I wouldn't like doing it but I can understand it coming to that point. And people who compare it to a battering need to cop on.

But you can't reason with a child having a tantrum. And if your child is having tantrums then surely you should look at preventing them or making it clear they're not acceptable by disciplining other ways. If its only a light smack then what is the benefit of doing it?
I do agree that people comparing it to abuse or battering is nonsense.

Femme_Fatale

Heat of the moment, desperate last resort I guess. I'm not a parent but I thought all toddlers had tantrums.

In an ideal world, all parents would be calm at all times, but even fantastically patient and chilled parents find that impossible all the time.

Paddy Cow

If giving a child a smack does them no harm, then why do parents who use smacking as a means of discipline go bat sh!t crazy at even the thought of another adult smacking their child?

Paddy Cow

I'm really on the fence about this.

I was slapped as a child. When my mother did it, it was generally a light slap on the bum or wrist and it didn't do any lasting damage to me. However my dad very occasionally beat me and that has left lasting scars.

Of course it would great if you could resolve everything by reasoning with the child but I don't know if it's possible in all cases.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

If giving a child a smack does them no harm, then why do parents who use smacking as a means of discipline go bat sh!t crazy at even the thought of another adult smacking their child?

To be fair, parents go bat**** crazy at the thought of another adult doing anything to their precious little brat. I don't know how many times I've wanted to tell off a child but I know I'd get an earful from the parent and probably the whole "you'd understand if you had kids" lecture.

Paddy Cow

Karsini wrote: »

To be fair, parents go bat**** crazy at the thought of another adult doing anything to their precious little brat. I don't know how many times I've wanted to tell off a child but I know I'd get an earful from the parent and probably the whole "you'd understand if you had kids" lecture.

A parent who uses the "time out" technique is not likely to go bat sh!t crazy if another adult uses the same technique, provided it was called for. I just think that if your disciplinary method is not something you would be happy for other adults to implement, then maybe you need to look at yourself. Why is it ok for you (generic "you", not you personally) to smack the child but not anyone else?

strobe

Anyone that hits a kid is either lazy, ignorant or selfish. Or some combination of the three.

How do the "sometimes it's the only option as a last resort" people explain every competent creche and childminder never having to use this last resort?

Go sit in on a day in a good creche sometime. No kids being hit. Disobedient hyper kids becoming well behaved within a couple of days without violence or the threat of it ever rearing its ugly head. Tantrums rare and dealt with quickly and non violently at all times.

I presume we're going with the working assumption that some kind of gypsy magic or unicorn wishes is the explanation for this, rather than a lack of ignorance, selfishness and laziness when it comes to dealing with children?

dr.fuzzenstein

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Lucky indeed is the parent with the perfect child.:rolleyes:

Well, maybe it's not a case of bad child, but bad parent?

tritium

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Heat of the moment, desperate last resort I guess. I'm not a parent but I thought all toddlers had tantrums.

In an ideal world, all parents would be calm at all times, but even fantastically patient and chilled parents find that impossible all the time.

Thats the point. Slapping a child is more often about the parents inability to hold their emotions in control than anything the child has done.

Its all well and good saying it's only a light smack. By the same logic the man or woman who hits and abuses their partner is alright once there's no bruises - using violence or the threat of violence to control someone by fear is never acceptable.

Oranage2

I don't have children but I do work as a teacher and I swear my job would be so much easier if I could hit some of them a box!

tritium

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Lucky indeed is the parent with the perfect child.:rolleyes:

Lucky indeed the child with a parent who isn't too lazy and ignorant to see past violence as a solution

Bogan

I wouldn't go as far as using things but would use my hand on rare times when needed.

Grumpypants

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

The situation in question is the child having a tantrum, being impossible to reason with; it is a very last resort to give them a light smack on the bum.

I wouldn't like doing it but I can understand it coming to that point. And people who compare it to a battering need to cop on.

No one is comparing it to a battering even a light smack is a crapy thing to do. If you made a mistake in work and your boss grabbed you put you over his knee and gave you a light tap on ass do you think you would be impacted by that?

People always have these excuses like tantrums, putting their hand in a fire or running out on to a road.

Why are parents putting their kids near fires and dangerous roads?! And if your kid is so upset they can't control themselves then maybe that's a sign to take them out of the situation. That's easy to do you pick them up and move them. They are small children not elephants.

MonaPizza

kellaman123 wrote: »

Is there a place for corporal punishment of children in the home today? I would have got the wooden spoon from mum and leather belt from dad growing up as would most of my mates, these days it's relatively unheard off!

Tough call.

On one hand it sends the message to the victim that violence produces results. On the other hand it has the benefit of having the victim empathize and not wish to assault or cause pain to others since the victim knows what it feels like.

I had a teacher once who was sparing with the slap but doled it out when he thought it was really justified. When called out one time by a parent whose kid got a clatter and who [the parent] recommended an alternative form of punishment such as detention, standing outside the door, cleaning the jacks, whatever, the teacher replied "Slap a kid and he'll forget it in a few hours. Humiliate him in front of his peers and he'll remember it for life."

I don't agree that violence is productive when trying to teach (we used to get a leather for spelling errors) but sometimes it has the desired effect. My mother's friend was in Mass one time with her young son. The son was acting up and making noise and misbehaving. Before any of you start bleating about him not wanting to be there or some crap, the mother was no softie and he didn't act up at home. ... plus Mass is crap but that's besides the point. She picked him up, calmly walked with the squealing wretch out the back of the church and around the side, pulled his pants down and gave him two sharp slaps on his bare bum, pulled pants back up and marched back inside with him. Nothing was said during this episode. The little lad never cried, he was just parked back on the pew and stared in silence and never acted up again.

Now this is anecdotal evidence, I know, but whenever I was slapped by my mum which wasn't often I always had my granny's lap to run to when I was sobbing.
She made things better and when my mum cooled down I was given a kiss and maybe a biscuit.

MonaPizza

Grumpypants wrote: »

If you are using fear, the threat of physical violence and humiliation to control your kids then you are failing as a parent.

How about being patient and talking to them for a minute instead.

Ever see a kid who could manipulate a parent?
Ever see a kid who got a kick out of pushing the boundaries to a parent's tolerance?
Ever see a kid who laughed at a parent's impotence in laying down the law and commanding respect?

Some parents can break the will of a stubborn and insolent child without resorting to corporal punishment. My brother in law is one...but he's exceptional. Most parents don't have that skill, patience or fortitude. And certainly most parents who are overworked or knackered don't have the time or patience to come up with some kind of crafty ploy to neutralise some little bollocks of a kid who's getting a kick out of pushing their buttons.

MonaPizza

Paddy Cow wrote: »

A parent who uses the "time out" technique is not likely to go bat sh!t crazy if another adult uses the same technique, provided it was called for. I just think that if your disciplinary method is not something you would be happy for other adults to implement, then maybe you need to look at yourself. Why is it ok for you (generic "you", not you personally) to smack the child but not anyone else?

"time out" technique !!!

pass the vomit bag.

Paddy Cow

MonaPizza wrote: »

"time out" technique !!!

pass the vomit bag.

Time out works. It doesn't leave a kid sobbing and in need of comfort from nanny and then biscuits from the mother when she calms down. Any form of discipline which requires comfort and treats afterwards is a joke.

osarusan

I was thinking about this recently.

I was in a shop with a small play area, looking after our children while my wife bought something. There was another father there, and he decided to leave after a few minutes, so he called his children to get ready. They didn't want to go, and the older one in particular took their time getting ready, so eventually he told them he'd call the police on them.

He even took out his phone and pretended to dial, and the reaction from his older child (maybe 7) was incredible. Simply terrified. I mean terrified.

We often see a link being made between physical punishment and the use of fear, humiliation, betrayal, and so on, and we look at other ways of disciplining as being better than that, but in this case, I'm not so sure.

The threat of being abandoned to the police was one the child obviously took seriously.

foggy_lad

strobe wrote: »

Anyone that hits a kid is either lazy, ignorant or selfish. Or some combination of the three.

How do the "sometimes it's the only option as a last resort" people explain every competent creche and childminder never having to use this last resort?

Go sit in on a day in a good creche sometime. No kids being hit. Disobedient hyper kids becoming well behaved within a couple of days without violence or the threat of it ever rearing its ugly head. Tantrums rare and dealt with quickly and non violently at all times.

I presume we're going with the working assumption that some kind of gypsy magic or unicorn wishes is the explanation for this, rather than a lack of ignorance, selfishness and laziness when it comes to dealing with children?

Children of all ages conform when put into school/creche settings as they want to be doing the same as their peers and are afraid of missing out on the good stuff if they misbehave, It is a wildly different situation when the same little angels are at home or in tesco with mum or waiting at the bank machine with dad.