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The main problem with health service is...

  • 10-01-2014 06:54PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 590 ✭✭✭stpaddy99


    They need to prioritise people getting scanned ahead of everything else

    how to do this?


    well firstly get all the bosses to sit down with the health minister and firstly acknowledge and under that scans are the most urgent priority

    once this is clearly thought out and understood they rebuilt the system accordingly

    the wasted burocracy the awkward unhelpful receptionists , the stupid double bookings taken that tie up ambulances, the stupid phone systems that do nothing to really save lives are all a distant priority behind getting more people scanned...not to forget the often wasteful management of staff where 3 or 4 staff seem to be doing the same thing at once. we also see the services reduced on weekends and holidays to a skeleton staff levels thus vastly more people die on weekends.

    I would look to the government to target scanning as a national emergency


    this means getting more money from the pot from other areas of the governmet budget, including overseas aid

    ok so we really target scanning and in time the tens of billions spent now will saves 100s of billions over the next few decades and save 1000s of lives

    let me clarify exactly why getting people scanned urgently and more quickly is a massive cost saving and life saving ad time saving emergency

    - people get scanned earlier, they find out whats wrong with them.
    that means we have more chance of reliving their main, getting them treated and saving their lives

    - this also means they do not then have to waste their time, months or years getting worse, taking tablets and anti biotics they may not need...taking up hospital beds they may not otherwise need, taking up nurses, doctors, porters, surgeons time , not to forget the food and drin and bed clothes etc it all adds up....expenses and services that they may not need IF they had been scanned in the first place

    - it also helps people avoid furrther infections if they know eaxtly what is wrong with them in the first place

    - Ill give you one horrific example, I beg you to understand the horror of this staistic....In the UK there were in 1 year an estimated 25,000 people who died from undiagnosed unseen unsuspected blood clots , that they did not have when they first entered the hospital.....25,000 silent deaths?

    -It is unbelievably hard to get an mri or scan for blood clots. we actually treat cars better than humans. we can get a diagnostic and full service and MOT for cars ....try getting a full service for a human being

    The system is really plain stupid in parts and we have brainless politicians claiming its getting better and repeating their prepared cliches when clearly they do not understand nor cna be bothered to really uproots these problems

    the heath service will always be a crazy task fought against all odds to protect and save lives. it will never be close to perfect. BUt it has massive room to be improved.

    prioritisng scanning over absolutely everything else is the key to saving the service and lives

    as an analogy i would compare it to the way new your police department finally cleaned up the city. One year they decided crime was so bad that they would seek to take money from other departments with a view to recouping this money and reducing their budget in future years. this they did , they targeted enormous energy, money and resources at the biggets crimes and in just a few years crime fell significantly. Then a few years later their budgets fell as they simply didnt need so much money as much of the major crime had been uprooted and would never return to such a level.

    In the case of the health service , the sheer amount getting earlier scans would save in terms of staff hours across the whole health service would be enormous as would the level of health and the number of lives saved, Its a case of clearer thinking imo


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭wazky


    Loads of sick people turning up at the same time?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭kjl


    I think the medical card system is flawed. I know a GP who has to deal with a full waiting room everyday and according to him 80% of them come at least a couple of times a month, not because they are sick, but because they want someone to chat too.

    People come in complaining about problems that you know they wouldn't have come in if they had to pay €60.

    I think they should charge €5 to medical card patients, that way it would filter out a lot of the illegitimate visits. Even if you were only on the dole, you would still manage to get €5 together is you were genuinely sick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    They need to prioritise people getting scanned ahead of everything else
    Need to get a scan done?

    -It is unbelievably hard to get an mri or scan for blood clots. we actually treat cars better than humans. we can get a diagnostic and full service and MOT for cars ....try getting a full service for a human being
    To be fair, the piece of equipment for scanning cars is cheap and available to anyone that wants to buy one. You could buy the piece of equipment and probably have it learned in a few weeks. MRI's are big, expensive and are operated by people that need a college education.

    If they fixed the real problem in our hospitals (management) sanning would fall into place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,521 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    That it's full of Scots.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    A friend of mine is in st James' at the moment undergoing tests...the hospital is like a fcuckin b&b for junkies....complications due to certain people's chosen lifestyle plus free access to health services for them is a contributory factor in clogging up our health system.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    The main problem with health service is... everyone who is unqualified thinks they have the solution.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    chopper6 wrote: »
    A friend of mine is in st James' at the moment undergoing tests...the hospital is like a fcuckin b&b for junkies....complications due to certain people's chosen lifestyle plus free access to health services for them is a contributory factor in clogging up our health system.
    when I was in hospital it felt like I'd accidentally been thrown into a retirement home. It was full of old people demanding tests and refusing to go home.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    Greedy Consultants for one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    The only problem with the health service is sick people. If it wasn't for all the feckin' sick people the health service would be tickety boo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 590 ✭✭✭stpaddy99


    Muise... wrote: »
    The main problem with health service is... everyone who is unqualified thinks they have the solution.

    I disagree
    you dont need a doctorate to see people need scans....its common sense.
    sometimes when youre in the quagmire of the health service its hard to see the woods for the trees.....a maze is much easier to navigate from the outside looking in


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    I disagree
    you dont need a doctorate to see people need scans....its common sense.
    sometimes when youre in the quagmire of the health service its hard to see the woods for the trees.....a maze is much easier to navigate from the outside looking in

    Draw up a detailed plan & budget so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    I disagree
    you dont need a doctorate to see people need scans....its common sense.
    People don't necessarily need scans. I don't know how you plan to free up the scanners by getting more people to use them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 590 ✭✭✭stpaddy99


    Muise... wrote: »
    Draw up a detailed plan & budget so.

    so?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 590 ✭✭✭stpaddy99


    ScumLord wrote: »
    People don't necessarily need scans. I don't know how you plan to free up the scanners by getting more people to use them.

    obviously by spending more money on keeping the scanners on more hours of every day? in time this would ramatically reduce the amount of money the health service would need to spend elsewhere in the system...some scanners are barely used...in some hospitals multi million pound scanners are used for 5 hours a week? ps almost everyone who cant be treated by a doctor needs some scan or other


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    obviously by spending more money on keeping the scanners on more hours of every day? in time this would ramatically reduce the amount of money the health service would need to spend elsewhere in the system...some scanners are barely used...in some hospitals multi million pound scanners are used for 5 hours a week? ps almost everyone who cant be treated by a doctor needs some scan or other
    I don't think it's that simple. An MRI machine requires an experienced operator. Keeping that machine running costs a fortune, everything about the machine is expensive, there are going to be massive costs there that you just can't see from a layman's position. There's nothing to say doing more scans is going to reduce costs across the board the very fact you're running one of the most expensive machines in the building longer, which is going to require much more staff (it would go beyond simply giving the operator more hours) would mean your spending considerably more.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭FairytaleGirl


    The main problem with the health service is ...
    People putting a price on healthcare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭Aoifums


    What's the point in a scan if you can't get an appointment? Who is going to send you go get the scan if you can't see a consultant for 3 months. Sure, your GP can send you but if the results have to go to someone more qualified then getting an initial appointment is more important, right?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,723 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,487 ✭✭✭banquo


    stpaddy99 wrote: »
    so?

    Amazing!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    kjl wrote: »
    I think the medical card system is flawed. I know a GP who has to deal with a full waiting room everyday and according to him 80% of them come at least a couple of times a month, not because they are sick, but because they want someone to chat too.

    People come in complaining about problems that you know they wouldn't have come in if they had to pay €60.

    I think they should charge €5 to medical card patients, that way it would filter out a lot of the illegitimate visits. Even if you were only on the dole, you would still manage to get €5 together is you were genuinely sick.

    About a third of the country has a medical card. The rest either have private health insurance or they pay full whack themselves. If you have a medical card you can go to a GP with a sniffle and get seen. If you dont have a medical card it is 50 euro minimum to see a Dr.

    There is something wrong somewhere.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 590 ✭✭✭stpaddy99


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I don't think it's that simple. An MRI machine requires an experienced operator. Keeping that machine running costs a fortune, everything about the machine is expensive, there are going to be massive costs there that you just can't see from a layman's position. There's nothing to say doing more scans is going to reduce costs across the board the very fact you're running one of the most expensive machines in the building longer, which is going to require much more staff (it would go beyond simply giving the operator more hours) would mean your spending considerably more.
    I disagree....we invest billions in the machines, billions in training these experts...then we only use them 5 hours a week in some hospitals...its insane.....we need to chissel off the endless waste and burocracdy and target tens of billions into getting these scanners working far more regularly and pump in the extra 100s of millions into paying the specialists to use the machines....we also need a staggered system where these experts are spread out across the 7 days and most of the 24 hours

    same with weekends where in most hospitals you cant get certain scans at all

    its a disgrace...the layman is the best man to point out what a disgrace it is, the so called experts appear incapable of recognising the most basic facts.....scan more people quicker, more people survives, less people block beds, less people tae up nurses doctors time and less people take billions of euros worth of wasted unnecessary medicines....

    we must prioritise scanning above everything


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,096 ✭✭✭✭McDermotX


    Scanners are a good thing.

    I liked the way your man's head exploded near the start.

    Second one was tripe, and I heard the third was garbage.

    So maybe more scanners are not a good thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Sadly, 'scans' are not the panacea theOP believes them to be. Medicine and diagnosis remains about 80% dependant on good old fashioned history and examination in the hands of an experienced doctor.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭BanzaiBk


    OP do you have any idea of the work involved organising, prioritising, performing and reporting on these "scans"? When do you propose all these extra scans take place? Some can take up to 90 minutes. A unit that runs from 8am to 7pm every day can only physically scan so many people. Who would deliver the results when there is suddenly a whole new influx of reports? The whole system needs to be reorganised, not one tiny cog in the machine.

    I rang 6 different people yesterday afternoon to see if they would take a cancelled slot for a CT scan. All of them refused, "Saturdays aren't convenient" or "I'm off at the weekend love". In the end a man who would have a 3 hour drive in the early hours of the morning jumped at the appointment. No one speaks of the patients who purposely clog up the system by failing to attend appointments or attend the ED when they are dissatisfied.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    The 'real' problem is that advancing technologies in the medical area have outpaced wages by an obscene margin. Nobody wants to say it or talk about it, but the truth is we can't provide everyone 'the best healthcare'.

    It's like the ancient Egyptians...they could build amazing pyramids, right? Right. We can see them today. Cool stuff. But just because, as a society, they could build one, doesn't mean EVERY CITIZEN could have one of their own.

    But healthcare is a life and death issue. And nobody wants to face the reality of it, so we have things like 'free healthcare' you can't use because you are on a waiting list and, when you do use it, such poor service you decided to go private from then on because of it (if you have means that is).

    Nobody is ever going to commit political suicide and say, 'Yeah - look, we can treat X but it's really expensive and takes years, and only helps in 30% of the cases....and it costs millions. We're just going to let those patients die'....nobody wants to talk about it. We just stick our fingers in our ears and say, 'EVERYONE deserves medical treatment' and then we gloss over the hows and whys.

    They've done studies on the lifetime medical costs an average person will incur....and the numbers are skyrocketing. We're at a point now where a healthy person is going to rack up an average of like 500,000 euro in medical bills.

    The average annual salary in Ireland is 40k. It won't be long before a normal, healthy person racks up as much in medical treatment as they earn in a lifetime. It doesn't take a mathematician to work this stuff out.

    Technological advances will keep happening. They'll have a new drug for X and a new machine for Y. And they'll be expensive. And we'll continue to bankrupt ourselves paying for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    a few years ago I asked my doctor to refer me for a scan for a certain issue.
    So on the Monday he faxed Euro-medics, on the Wednesday I had the scan, and on the Friday the doctor rang to tell me the results were all clear.

    I paid €175 for it but it was well worth it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    I'm no doctor, but I'm skeptical of the healing power of scanners.

    The HSE is a disaster, a black hole of waste and mismanagement. I do a fair bit of contract work for it, and if I told you half of what I know they'd hunt me down and kill me. And possibly review my contract.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Government haven't a clue, they took away the tax relief for private health insurance and as a result people didn't renew their health insurance and are now clogging up the public system.

    Bring back tax relief for private health insurance, scrap the BIK and ease the pressure on public healthcare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Why does scanning need priority?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    early detection? For example isn't it better for the patient to have cancer detected at stage 2 rather than stage 4?


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