Dairy Breed Bull calves

Farmer Pudsey · 07-01-2014 01:29PM #1

With the calving season about to get into full swing what is the outlook for these. At present yearling/weanlings are trading for around 1.3/kg (and that is the good ones). If farmers look at the sums as calves these must be worth less thyan 100/head.

However the real issue is the Jersey/JE-FR/HO crosses/extreme Holstein bull calves. As they will only grade P=/P+ in the main (as bullocks)and factory's penalising P= with a 50c penelty is it time to consider putting them down at birth. It was possible to make a small margin on some if finished as bulls. However from now on that will not be possible and they are unsuitable for export in general I think.

There conversion rate and growth rate is so poor that it it is unenomical to carry to maturity. With dairying expansion the order of the day and some dairy farmers will exit beef and some will want heifers reared is there an point in rearing these calves
There will be a place for the better quality Fr bull that will grade O- or better especially any that can be finished before 30 months and make QA payment. Some of those that are inefficent converters are Ok as well because they have good growth rate which on a grass based system can still be profitable.

The other big fear is will factory's pull the plug on over 30 month cattle 1-2 years down the line. The taking of these out of the market may in the longterm create a more profitable beef sector and remove some of the excess that factory's thrive on.

I know to farmers myself as well this would be a really tough decision but is a reality check needed and for calf buyers is there a necessity the next time you see a calf for 20 or 30 yoyo's to ask even at that price will he return a profit.

visatorro · 07-01-2014 01:44PM

as a dairy farmer i sell all my bull calves. always have. as far as im concerned the bull calf is gone and the cow is milking. any few euro is a bonus. maybe not the right way to be thinking but i dont really budget for getting money for bull calves. just milk and culls.

jersey101 · 07-01-2014 01:48PM

If a lad came into my yard and offered me 30,40 quid at a few days old id happily take it. Its less work and there gone straight away

jaymla627 · 07-01-2014 02:01PM

Reckon in the 2-3 years it will be a bobby calf job for alot of calves I.e collected at 7-10 days old by the knacker and made into dog food.

07-01-2014 02:01PM

Hopefully increased usage of sexed straws to fullfill replacements will lead to increased usage of the dairy beef type straws and the number of JEX bulls produced will be minimal.

manjou · 07-01-2014 03:34PM

49801 wrote: »

Hopefully increased usage of sexed straws to fullfill replacements will lead to increased usage of the dairy beef type straws and the number of JEX bulls produced will be minimal.

As a matter of interest what will dairy farmers use on rest of their cows when they have ai,d all their best cows with female straws.I would prefer to buy aax or hex heifers as these would be easier finished and it seems what factories want anyone think different?

F.D · 07-01-2014 03:38PM

is there not a saying the older the animal gets it looks more like its mother!! even if the sexed semen is used for 20% of the herd for replacments it wont matter if you cross a Angus or hereford with the remainder its still going to have a jersey trait
which is still going to end up as a P or in the lower regions of O no matter what you do
My opinion is the smaller dairy man with his british friesans will make a good price for his bull calves in the future as good stock will be scarce

PatQfarmer · 07-01-2014 03:53PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

With the calving season about to get into full swing what is the outlook for these. At present yearling/weanlings are trading for around 1.3/kg (and that is the good ones). If farmers look at the sums as calves these must be worth less thyan 100/head.

I bought no Autumn calves in 2013, because I am thinking the exact same.
Even at €4/kg dead, the money is not in it if paying €200+ for calves.
Hopeless altogether if rearing to sell as stores.
Seems the beef price trend will remain downwards for a while!
If calf price is below €100 this spring, I may buy a few. Otherwise, I'll wait until the superlevy lads have reared them for us and want rid in May.

Timmaay · 07-01-2014 04:43PM

manjou wrote: »

As a matter of interest what will dairy farmers use on rest of their cows when they have ai,d all their best cows with female straws.I would prefer to buy aax or hex heifers as these would be easier finished and it seems what factories want anyone think different?

He'll use the same selection criteria as the frs, as easy calving as possible, with a short gestation. You look at a cow knocking out 6kL of milk, worth say 40c/l in a yr like this, 2400euro in milk production, we most certainly are not going to chase an extra 100/200quid or so for a good beef calf, and put that income from the milk in jeopardy. Any non breeding calf is a byproduct, simply as is.

mahoney_j · 07-01-2014 04:51PM

For me anything not getting a fr will be getting a DBZ Belgian blue straw or an angus depending on the cow.lads get some horn around the ring for good quality breeding blue heifers from the dairy herd!!

Gillespy · 07-01-2014 04:57PM

I know it's hip at the moment to play down the importance of calf sales but AA and HE are easy calving and short gestation. You don't even need to go to the mart, there's always a buyer for them. On top of that, as stock bulls they're nice and docile.

farmerjj · 07-01-2014 05:02PM

Timmaay wrote: »

He'll use the same selection criteria as the frs, as easy calving as possible, with a short gestation. You look at a cow knocking out 6kL of milk, worth say 40c/l in a yr like this, 2400euro in milk production, we most certainly are not going to chase an extra 100/200quid or so for a good beef calf, and put that income from the milk in jeopardy. Any non breeding calf is a byproduct, simply as is.

I agree if u get a year like this but next year might not be as good say 27c/l then u might need that extra bit of cash!

Farmer Pudsey · 07-01-2014 07:44PM

visatorro wrote: »

as a dairy farmer i sell all my bull calves. always have. as far as im concerned the bull calf is gone and the cow is milking. any few euro is a bonus. maybe not the right way to be thinking but i dont really budget for getting money for bull calves. just milk and culls.

jersey101 wrote: »

If a lad came into my yard and offered me 30,40 quid at a few days old id happily take it. Its less work and there gone straight away

The question is if your calves become worth less than the cost of rearing what will you do with them. What is the cost of rearing 10-14 day old calves in a non milk quota situation along with capital cost of housing etc. 30L of milk @ 35c/L, another tenner for straw and ration. What is your time worth and what is the value of the calf houses to you.

What if you are getting a tenner for these calves. Maybe you will decide to rear them because ''sur they will come into money down the road''

If we look across other agri industry's/systems male goats, cock chickens from layers etc are all discarded by there industry. Will this become the norm with some dairy breed bull calves from the dairy industry.

The question is if it is uneconomical will you rear them to 10 dayolds.

Brown Podzol · 07-01-2014 07:49PM

Timmaay wrote: »

He'll use the same selection criteria as the frs, as easy calving as possible, with a short gestation. You look at a cow knocking out 6kL of milk, worth say 40c/l in a yr like this, 2400euro in milk production, we most certainly are not going to chase an extra 100/200quid or so for a good beef calf, and put that income from the milk in jeopardy. Any non breeding calf is a byproduct, simply as is.

If someone could come up with a cocktail of hormones hat you could inject into a cow that would persuade her that she had a calf then I would only put 30% of my cows in calf with sexed Holstein semen.:rolleyes:

mf240 · 07-01-2014 07:52PM

I would rear them for a few weeks and sell them or give them away. I wouldn't kill a baby calf.

limo_100 · 07-01-2014 08:01PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

For me anything not getting a fr will be getting a DBZ Belgian blue straw or an angus depending on the cow.lads get some horn around the ring for good quality breeding blue heifers from the dairy herd!!

DBZ is breeding great stock of the freisian a neighbor used him last and he breed great consistent stock and got top prices for them. I bought a heifer off him in the ring €450 on the day it was a deer price for a 2week old calf but shes cheap now 11 months on shes a big long heifer coming up on 350KG think i'll a few more off him this year.

07-01-2014 09:06PM

Brown Podzol wrote: »

If someone could come up with a cocktail of hormones hat you could inject into a cow that would persuade her that she had a calf then I would only put 30% of my cows in calf with sexed Holstein semen.:rolleyes:

That's my idea:D

Farrell · 07-01-2014 09:32PM

limo_100 wrote: »

DBZ is breeding great stock of the freisian a neighbor used him last and he breed great consistent stock and got top prices for them. I bought a heifer off him in the ring €450 on the day it was a deer price for a 2week old calf but shes cheap now 11 months on shes a big long heifer coming up on 350KG think i'll a few more off him this year.

BB off BF is a good cow, the HO crosses can be hit & miss.
Reading posts, seams Convey's sexed semen proposal is the future in farming

stop thelights · 07-01-2014 09:33PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

For me anything not getting a fr will be getting a DBZ Belgian blue straw or an angus depending on the cow.lads get some horn around the ring for good quality breeding blue heifers from the dairy herd!!

We're doing the extra same to some of our older autumn ladies! We're not cross bred

C0N0R · 07-01-2014 09:36PM

mf240 wrote: »

I would rear them for a few weeks and sell them or give them away. I wouldn't kill a baby calf.

But what is the difference between being killed HUMANELY at day old than living a rough life and being killed slightly later? We bobby our calves over here and to be honest im not a massive fan if it, the calf is reared to circa three days old, then given its last feed, thrown into a truck, driven round the roads, stood waiting then finally killed and processed up to 24 hours later. Is it better to humanely kill that calf at birth? I would be inclined to say so. Tough subject though

Brown Podzol · 07-01-2014 10:03PM

C0N0R wrote: »

But what is the difference between being killed HUMANELY at day old than living a rough life and being killed slightly later? We bobby our calves over here and to be honest im not a massive fan if it, the calf is reared to circa three days old, then given its last feed, thrown into a truck, driven round the roads, stood waiting then finally killed and processed up to 24 hours later. Is it better to humanely kill that calf at birth? I would be inclined to say so. Tough subject though

I suppose it's a lifetime spent calving cows 24/7 during the springtime and doing your best to keep the life in sick calves, it goes against the grain to shoot them at birth.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 07-01-2014 10:36PM

What a horrible thread with horrible replies

you'd sell a baby calf knowing it was going to be made into dogfood?? Jesus

epfff · 07-01-2014 10:38PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

What a horrible thread with horrible replies you'd sell a baby calf knowing it was going to be made into dogfood?? Jesus

Sad reality of it is its what is going to happen if supermarkets/consumer keep putting downward pressure on prices
There is only so much money you can lose before you go bust
Maybe there maybe we could have sanctuaries for dairy breed bulls like donkeys

jersey101 · 07-01-2014 10:43PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

What a horrible thread with horrible replies you'd sell a baby calf knowing it was going to be made into dogfood?? Jesus

Farming isn't the same as the old'in days I'm afraid. Nowadays its a business that has to make a profit to survive and if it doesn't ye have to cut out what isn't.

epfff · 07-01-2014 10:50PM

jersey101 wrote: »

Farming isn't the same as the old'in days I'm afraid. Nowadays its a business that has to make a profit to survive and if it doesn't ye have to cut out what isn't.

It always had to make a profit to support families just the market was softer
I feed a lot of fr ho bulls last few years but with factory specs I'm getting now I'll be raring no calves this year and looking for a victim to buy the yearnings I have On hand
have majority of forward ones gone now lost shirt on last bunch

Timmaay · 07-01-2014 10:56PM

farmerjj wrote: »

I agree if u get a year like this but next year might not be as good say 27c/l then u might need that extra bit of cash!

I'm going to annoy mahoney here ha, but ya get a herd of JExs, at least then your solids bump that price up to like 33cent

bogman_bass · 07-01-2014 11:04PM

Lads what do you think our customer (the Dublin housewife) would say if bobby calves became the norm? You are right when you say its a business but PR is a big part of any industry but ours especally. Look at the bigger picture!

Mac Taylor · 07-01-2014 11:22PM

bogman_bass wrote: »

Lads what do you think our customer (the Dublin housewife) would say if bobby calves became the norm? You are right when you say its a business but PR is a big part of any industry but ours especally. Look at the bigger picture!

I agree with you, is there any opportunity for veal production. I know allot is people have an issue with this but is it a better option than following the Nz bobby model.
I saw a few jersey x weanlings in Kenmare last October, there was hardly anyone to put a bid on them.

Timmaay · 07-01-2014 11:27PM

bogman_bass wrote: »

Lads what do you think our customer (the Dublin housewife) would say if bobby calves became the norm? You are right when you say its a business but PR is a big part of any industry but ours especally. Look at the bigger picture!

Our customers sure as sh&te ain't the dub housewife anymore, its the Chinese buying milk powder!

Bellview · 07-01-2014 11:35PM

Timmaay wrote: »

Our customers sure as sh&te ain't the dub housewife anymore, its the Chinese buying milk powder!

Don't forget the home market as Chinese are buying up nz farms too!

Timmaay · 07-01-2014 11:38PM

Bellview wrote: »

Don't forget the home market as Chinese are buying up nz farms too!

I'm sorry, I'll trust the Chinese over ourown supermarkets anyday who happyly sell milk below cost. If the milk market changes so as that I'm a liquid milk supplier only for Irish costumers there will be a for sale sign up on our farm!

Dairy Breed Bull calves

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