Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

Jelle1880 · 19-12-2013 12:32PM

Plenty of people know that this whole 'Mandela was a saint' which the media were bombarding us with is wrong anyway.

The difference is that Mandela had no option, there was no way in South Africa for black people to try and seek democratic change.

So trying to compare his fight to the Troubles in Northern Ireland is wrong as well.

Prop Joe · 19-12-2013 12:38PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The difference is that Mandela had no option, there was no way in South Africa for black people to try and seek democratic change.

So trying to compare his fight to the Troubles in Northern Ireland is wrong

Don't see how many other options the nationalist community had up North either?

Anyway's back on topic,Jan could be very important for Lenny getting in 1 or 2 players and bed them in ahead of CL Qualifiers early next season,Anyone in particular we should look at?

Just looking at who was available last year in our budget range players like

Carlton Cole , Chris Baird & Thomas Hitzlsperger were all available for free and at wages around 15k.

Those 3 players could of made a big difference in Europe this year

Lennonist · 19-12-2013 01:06PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Plenty of people know that this whole 'Mandela was a saint' which the media were bombarding us with is wrong anyway.

The difference is that Mandela had no option, there was no way in South Africa for black people to try and seek democratic change.

So trying to compare his fight to the Troubles in Northern Ireland is wrong as well.

There was a democratic deficit in Northern Ireland for many decades as well. What they have now is not perfect but at least there is a framework there where issues of conflict can be resolved through politics and dialogue. I think the comparisons between Sands and Mandela arise because Mandela was directly inspired by him when he lead a hunger strike in Robben Island.

bobmalooka · 19-12-2013 02:25PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Are you trying to tell me that Sands can't be held responsible through his actions of making things in the North much worse

Yes

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 19-12-2013 02:33PM

bobmalooka wrote: »

Yes

Aye OK no point in discussing it further if you are reduced to one word answers and we are never going to agree

Jelle1880 · 19-12-2013 02:38PM

Lennonist wrote: »

There was a democratic deficit in Northern Ireland for many decades as well. What they have now is not perfect but at least there is a framework there where issues of conflict can be resolved through politics and dialogue. I think the comparisons between Sands and Mandela arise because Mandela was directly inspired by him when he lead a hunger strike in Robben Island.

So he said, but there were numerous instances of hunger strike by the prisoners on Robben Island, several of them before the Troubles even started.

I can see why the comparisons were/are being made, but I don't think they're correct.

bobmalooka · 19-12-2013 02:40PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

wrong

Please elaborate, was the two tier state of Northern Ireland at the time acceptable in your eyes?

bobmalooka · 19-12-2013 02:41PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Aye OK no point in discussing it further if you are reduced to one word answers and we are never going to agree

The best edit ever

Hagar the Nice. · 19-12-2013 02:43PM

Eirebear wrote: »

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make Hagar.

South Africa's violence was completely internal, whereas that of the organisation which Sands was a member took to another country.
If the ANC attacked Zimbabwe (Hypothetically) do you think it would be acceptable for South Africans to celebrate this in Harare?

Again, I'm not adding any of my own political feelings into this, just simply trying to break down the arguments on all sides into something which is a little less filled with emotion.
I'm not even saying that Celtic fans shouldn't be allowed to do as they wish in this regard, simply trying to point to the fact that it seems odd that people are surprised that it might be a little controversial.
Dare I say that if the banner was raised by St Pats fans, in Dublin, it would be less so?
A little odd and out of context maybe, but not quite so controversial.

The point I'm trying to make is simple really,both Sands and Mandela got to the point of saying "Why are our countrymen being murdered,what did we do to bring this hatred from others to our own doorstep."
When you kick the living daylights out of a dog,it will bite back one day when you least expect it,people want to live in peace,let them do it.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 19-12-2013 02:43PM

bobmalooka wrote: »

Please elaborate, was the two tier state of Northern Ireland at the time acceptable in your eyes?

It seems I am the one who has to answer with more than one word.

Of course it was but I can not accept the killing of unarmed civilians in numerous cases actually helped the situation. For me the loss of one innocent life makes the price to high

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 19-12-2013 02:44PM

bobmalooka wrote: »

The best edit ever

Yes I edited it plain enough to see

Hagar the Nice. · 19-12-2013 02:46PM

Prop Joe wrote: »

Don't see how many other options the nationalist community had up North either?

Anyway's back on topic,Jan could be very important for Lenny getting in 1 or 2 players and bed them in ahead of CL Qualifiers early next season,Anyone in particular we should look at?

Just looking at who was available last year in our budget range players like

Carlton Cole , Chris Baird & Thomas Hitzlsperger were all available for free and at wages around 15k.

Those 3 players could of made a big difference in Europe this year

Joe,Cole is on £32 k a week at WHU.

Hagar the Nice. · 19-12-2013 02:47PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

It seems I am the one who has to answer with more than one word.

Of course it was but I can not accept the killing of unarmed civilians in numerous cases actually helped the situation. For me the loss of one innocent life makes the price to high

On both sides.

bobmalooka · 19-12-2013 02:51PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Yes I edited it plain enough to see

Stop speaking with two tongues would you, you posted a one word answer to me then edited it to lambast me for doing the same and another one for good measure commenting on how I was 'reduced' to one word answers.

Just to clarify I decided to leave it at one word because it was a completely loaded question aimed at distracting from your hypocritical earlier comments.

I guess I shouldn't have commented on your hypocrisy earlier I must be on your naughty list now.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 19-12-2013 02:54PM

bobmalooka wrote: »

Stop speaking with two tongues would you, you posted a one word answer to me then edited it to lambast me for doing the same and another one for good measure commenting on how I was 'reduced' to one word answers.

Just to clarify I decided to leave it at one word because it was a completely loaded question aimed at distracting from your hypocritical earlier comments.

I guess I shouldn't have commented on your hypocrisy earlier I must be on your naughty list now.

What hypocrisy please not sure what you are refferring to

bobmalooka · 19-12-2013 03:00PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

What hypocrisy please not sure what you are refferring to

You were repeatedly pulled up for stating sands was part responsible for atrocities like omagh yet dodged ducked and dived when asked does that mean the British army carry the same guilt with regards atrocities carried out then.

Your like patches o houlihan from dodgeball

RoryMac · 19-12-2013 03:03PM

TBH the past few pages of this thread is exactly the reason all politics should be removed from football.

Jesus wept, it's ridiculous the amount of crap you have to wade through when checking if something football related has happened at Celtic

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 19-12-2013 03:09PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

They weren't particularly welcomed by my but that is only my viewpoint. I will defend the clubs right to hold a minutes silence for fallen troops.
Don't think I have ever defended Bloodt Sunday or even tried to.

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Right obviously I wasn't clear enough for you.
I don't agree with armed forces day at Ibrox. But I won't condemn the minutes silence on rememberence day
Hope that's clear enough for you

Let's try answering without the petty sarcasm

bobmalooka wrote: »

You were repeatedly pulled up for stating sands was part responsible for atrocities like omagh yet dodged ducked and dived when asked does that mean the British army carry the same guilt with regards atrocities carried out then.

Your like patches o houlihan from dodgeball

Repeatedly pulled up your seeing things. I made it clear I have never defended the BA over Bloody Sunday and I also stated I disagreed with Armed forced day.
So I suggest you take your anger somewhere else as I really can't be bothered when someone trys to change what I said

Dempsey · 19-12-2013 03:21PM

Eirebear wrote: »

Your not really responding to my question here, songs aren't really the subject here as the waters become a lot more muddied when the various interpretations come into play.
(I do agree though, petty squabbling and one upmanship along with rushed laws)

The banner is a pointed statement in support of a man who carried out acts of violence against the country the banner appeared in.
Surely we can see that there was always going to be a reaction to that?
Again, all I'm trying to do is talk through this logically, I'm not interested in apportioning blame for wars and conflicts.

A negative reaction is expected because UK laws protect those who take the most offence to something rather than protect freedom of speech. The bottom line is that people cannot say what they like in the UK. The government can silence small groups very easily through criminalizing people using acts like the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act. They do this so they can attack a person's credibility & integrity in the future.

For all the posturing about politics the GB displayed a huge amount of nativity when it came to playing politics with Celtic and the authorities and when it came to playing politics with the laws that they wanted to demonstrate against. Breaking rules/laws (and hoping nobody notices) to protest other rules/laws is like building a house on quicksand.

As I said earlier, if they wanted to highlight the problems with freedom of speech in the UK, Celtic Park was the wrong forum for that. Doing so whilst vandalising stadiums, looking the other way when others vandalizing their seats, letting of pyrotechnics, looking the other way when others let off pyrotechnics in their section, and in general breaking alot of stadium health & safety regulations directly or indirectly along the way was foolish in the extreme and counter productive in this Fans Against Criminalization campaign. I dont see why any Celtic fan would expect Celtic FC to back such an outfit in any shape or form no matter what atmosphere they bring to stadiums.

bobmalooka · 19-12-2013 03:23PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Repeatedly pulled up your seeing things. I made it clear I have never defended the BA over Bloody Sunday and I also stated I disagreed with Armed forced day.
So I suggest you take your anger somewhere else as I really can't be bothered when someone trys to change what I said

I honestly don't know if your genuinely missing the point or not so I'll say it once more.

I am not saying you condone Bloody Sunday, I am saying you are tarring all republican activists with the atrocities carried out "in the name of republicanism" e.g omagh. If this is true then is the same not true of all BA personell who are routinely praised officially and unofficially at ibrox.

It can't be both ways.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 19-12-2013 03:28PM

bobmalooka wrote: »

I honestly don't know if your genuinely missing the point or not so I'll say it once more.

I am not saying you condone Bloody Sunday, I am saying you are tarring all republican activists with the atrocities carried out "in the name of republicanism" e.g omagh. If this is true then is the same not true of all BA personell who are routinely praised officially and unofficially at ibrox.

It can't be both ways.

Wait a minute I am not responsible for members of the armed forces that go to Ibrox officially or unofficially I have already stated my viewpoint on the official day but I am sorry my word doesn't carry any wait with the board.
I am not a particular lover of the BA believe it or not many Rangers supporters don't see the need for the visits

bobmalooka · 19-12-2013 03:36PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Wait a minute I am not responsible for members of the armed forces that go to Ibrox officially or unofficially I have already stated my viewpoint on the official day but I am sorry my word doesn't carry any wait with the board.
I am not a particular lover of the BA believe it or not many Rangers supporters don't see the need for the visits

How would you be responsible?

Let's give you one more chance to be straight.

Do the Members of the BA carry the same guilt by association for the atrocities carried out by the BA as sands does for the omagh bombing?

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 19-12-2013 03:40PM

bobmalooka wrote: »

How would you be responsible?

Let's give you one more chance to be straight.

Do the Members of the BA carry the same guilt by association for the atrocities carried out by the BA as sands does for the omagh bombing?

Of course they do when I said I had never defended for example Bloody Sunday it should have been as obvious as a pimple on your nose or are you being deliberately obtuse.
Or is it for the simple reason Rangers fan = Unionist and everything contained within

Jelle1880 · 19-12-2013 03:45PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Of course they do when I said I had never defended for example Bloody Sunday it should have been as obvious as a pimple on your nose or are you being deliberately obtuse.
Or is it for the simple reason Rangers fan = Unionist and everything contained within

So wrong...

And no bob, Sands is not guilty by association for things like Omagh.
Mainly because it was carried out by another group and the fact he was dead for nearly 2 decades.

So your argument doesn't really hold up.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 19-12-2013 04:03PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So wrong...

And no bob, Sands is not guilty by association for things like Omagh.
Mainly because it was carried out by another group and the fact he was dead for nearly 2 decades.

So your argument doesn't really hold up.

No it does hold up Sands was part of a group and he was seen as a martyr among many republicans jeez even today you hear people talk about honouring him. Therefore it is passed down the generation and so forth so Sand contributed to the ongoing conflict by his martyrdom. You know it doesn't stop and start afresh it has been going on for a long long time the same old story repeated over and over and getting more violent each time.

And sorry of course the BA must be condemned for acts like Bloody Sunday they also through generations have carried out vile acts. This is a football forum time to get back to it I can't add anymore to this debate it is all so sad

Jelle1880 · 19-12-2013 04:08PM

What bob said was 'are the BA guilty by association ?'.

Of course they're not.

Hagar the Nice. · 19-12-2013 04:21PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

What bob said was 'are the BA guilty by association ?'.

Of course they're not.

Of course not....

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/collusion/chron.htm

Hagar the Nice. · 19-12-2013 04:46PM

If anyone is on twitter,check out @AlfieConn606
Incredible.

bobmalooka · 19-12-2013 05:48PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Of course they do when I said I had never defended for example Bloody Sunday it should have been as obvious as a pimple on your nose or are you being deliberately obtuse.
Or is it for the simple reason Rangers fan = Unionist and everything contained within

I'm glad you cleared that up, it wasn't obvious that you meant that.

While I disagree with your view I respect that you apply it equally, that's what I was trying to find out.

Now back to the football...

Dempsey · 19-12-2013 06:02PM

Samaras....Lazio

Who wants to drive the taxi?

Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

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