How Bout Dem Bears?

Spongey1975 · 16-12-2013 04:43PM

kennyb3 wrote: »

Seriously? Why do quarterbacks go through progressions?

Quarterbacks go through progressions when their first option is not available. Maybe he saw what he needed to see to make that first option viable. The fact is he made the throw, yes he relied on Jeffery to make a good catch but that's what he is there for. I thought there was no need for that throw but my first shot will be aimed at Trestman, not Cutler for calling it in the first place

kennyb3 · 16-12-2013 05:04PM

padraig_f wrote: »

Yeah it's a valid criticism, I think he is still forcing downfield throws too much and should be checking down more. Obviously it's a balance, you don't want to be checking down too much, but I don't think he has it right yet. I'm assuming as he gets longer in the offense, with the help of Trestman's coaching, he'll learn to cut those out. But until he does, it's a legitimate question-mark.

I think we pretty much agree. And I've little doubt he'll get another year at least anyway and hopefully he'll cut it out (even a bit) because you look at a game like the Saints were he had none and how we weren't a million miles away, how we battered the Steelers and Giants with no interception and then you look at a game like the Vikes were he had 2 and we nearly managed to lose to them at home (although he pulled it out himself in the end). 3 interceptions away to Detroit and we get battered as a result. Ball security is huge in the NFL, look at the elite QB stats and you'll see this.

padraig_f wrote: »

The two interceptions were on him. First one was the bad one for me, 1st-and-10 on the Browns 14, and throws to Marshall in double-coverage, didn't need to throw it.

2nd one sailed, it happens, put it down to rust.

Yep the first was horrific. You've 3 attempts and then an easy field goal if that fails.

padraig_f wrote: »

The shot to Jeffery for the touchdown, I didn't have a problem with. 3rd-and-11 is a difficult completion anyway, and an interception 50 yards down the field is not such a bad interception, similar to a punt. Good time to take a shot there, even if it wasn't the ideal coverage. You wouldn't like it on 1st down with that coverage, but in the situation I didn't mind taking the shot.

You've a point I guess, but still it's much easier to return an interception the half or the full field with no blockers. Also interceptions are a sure fire way to get the crowd up and change momentum. But I guess we've the receivers to do it. Just think it was a bit early for that. It could easily have gone for 7 points the other way.

kennyb3 · 16-12-2013 05:06PM

Spongey1975 wrote: »

Quarterbacks go through progressions when their first option is not available. Maybe he saw what he needed to see to make that first option viable. The fact is he made the throw, yes he relied on Jeffery to make a good catch but that's what he is there for. I thought there was no need for that throw but my first shot will be aimed at Trestman, not Cutler for calling it in the first place

I'm sure the play call was for a long pass down the side to Jeffrey on the basis there wasn't safety cover over the top. I can't believe that the call was for Jeffrey to go up over the CB and safety. The DB's actually made a balls of it really, thankfully for us. Jeffrey beat the CB but the safety pulled a 'Conte'. Anyway we'll just agree to disagree, it got us the win so I'll be happy and we can move along.

SantryRed · 16-12-2013 06:07PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Not sure why Cutler's interception stat freaks the hell out of you. It's 3.4 percent. That is identical to McCown's.

Meantime Cutler's TD stat is 4.7 to McCown's 3.8. It seems a little unfair that Cutler is judged on his career stats and McCown is judged on his stats in a few games against mostly poor defenses. If we look at McCown's career interception rate, this year has really padded it. I like McCown, and everyone always likes a good backup, and Cutler is kind of a pr1ck. But McCown's play has game manager written all over it.

That throw to Jeffery is a case in point. Some people seem to think it was blind luck, but I just cannot see where that comes from. It was a beautiful throw. If McCown threw it, I doubt anything would be said. I mean the other week he basically threw the ball away but Jeffery was in the corner of the endzone and decided he'd just take the TD anyway. McCown got the credit for what was not, looking at the video, intended as a pass to begin with. Not to mention that he got out of jail a couple of times throwing INTs that were flagged as penalties. If Cutler had gotten away with that in similar circumstances everyone would be on his back about it, but nobody, from what I can see, has even mentioned that McCown got away with murder a couple of times last week.

My point is not to knock McCown, it's just that I think, on balance, we will score more points with Cutler. I am on board with anyone who thinks that Cutler's expectations of 20 million guaranteed or whatever he's looking for is completely insane and that at that price we would do well to let him go. But Trestman was brought in to make use of Cutler's incredible arm, not to plod along with an ageing career back up.

Come on man, it was blind luck.

padraig_f · 16-12-2013 06:40PM

@PFF_Sam:
"#Bears ran this play a few times vs Cleveland. Worked a treat each time. jet-motion from Jeffery then pitch Forte"

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That was a good one alright. They'd been doing that end-around with Jeffery, and were increasingly getting stopped.

Realt Dearg Sec · 16-12-2013 06:46PM

padraig_f wrote: »

@PFF_Sam:
"#Bears ran this play a few times vs Cleveland. Worked a treat each time. jet-motion from Jeffery then pitch Forte"

That was a good one alright. They'd been doing that end-around with Jeffery, and were increasingly getting stopped.

Loved that play. It was only reading WCG today I realised that it was, pretty much, enabled by the end around to Jeffery in the first half, which resulted in a loss of 3 yards, and hasn't actually worked well in a couple of weeks. But by playing it Trestman was able to set up this piece of work.

The lesson being that we have an incredibly good offensive play caller if we are willing to trust him (that doesn't make a 2nd down FG right!!!).

aaronm13 · 16-12-2013 06:49PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Yeah, and we're not going to come to any agreement on it either, so probably not much point dragging the discussion on too long

Exactly. At the end of the we all what whoever plays to have a great game. The offence isn't our problem anyway, haven't had much trouble scoring.

Oat23 · 16-12-2013 07:12PM

People are ignoring the roughing the passer call on the Alshon TD. If it was INT'd it wouldn't have counted..

But like I've already said, it doesn't matter since it is Jay Cutler. He'll get slaughtered for making a bad throw that could/should have been INT'd and McCown won't be.

SameOleJay · 16-12-2013 08:06PM

Tillman gone for the season, official now. Whisper it quietly but Jennings is going better on the star receivers than Charlie was. Still a blow.

Anyway, probably the end for Peanut in Chicago. Huge loss to the franchise.

SantryRed · 16-12-2013 09:51PM

Oat23 wrote: »

People are ignoring the roughing the passer call on the Alshon TD. If it was INT'd it wouldn't have counted..

But like I've already said, it doesn't matter since it is Jay Cutler. He'll get slaughtered for making a bad throw that could/should have been INT'd and McCown won't be.

He hardly threw the ball knowing there was a roughing the passer call coming?

Realt Dearg Sec · 16-12-2013 09:56PM

SantryRed wrote: »

He hardly threw the ball knowing there was a roughing the passer call coming?

The point, presumably, is that McCown is getting no criticism for throwing several interceptions that were cancelled because of flags. Meanwhile Cutler is getting raked over the coals for throwing a TOUCHDOWN pass, that even if it HAD been intercepted (which it WASN'T) would have similarly been cancelled.

Oat23 · 16-12-2013 10:49PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The point, presumably, is that McCown is getting no criticism for throwing several interceptions that were cancelled because of flags. Meanwhile Cutler is getting raked over the coals for throwing a TOUCHDOWN pass, that even if it HAD been intercepted (which it WASN'T) would have similarly been cancelled.

Exactly. Me and maybe one other person have mentioned the McCown passes that were either INT'd and ruled out because of a flag, or a throw that should have been INT'd. Cutler throws a TD and all anyone can talk about is that it was a horrible pass. I'm used to fans of other teams being biased against Cutler but it's weird seeing it from so many of our own fans now. People seem to have forgotten how bad things were at QB for so long before he arrived. He's in his 5th season here, and if he throws for 222 yards on Sunday night he will be the new franchise passing yards leader. Sid Luckman holds the record right now and he last threw a pass in Chicago back in 1950.

Trestman is good, but lets not think every QB he touches turns into a franchise guy. McCown just fits the system well but he's coming to the end of his career. The draft is a gamble, look at the QBs that have been picked in the first two rounds the past 5 years. I don't want to end up with a similar QB situation to Minnesota, the Bucs, Jets or Jags, who have all spend high to mid round picks on a QB that turned out to be a bust. Cutler can get the job done and can also improve in year two of the trest coast offense.

SameOleJay · 16-12-2013 10:55PM

Marshall's a great interview.

http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/videos/Marshall_First_interception_was_on_me/cd9fa7f9-7d2e-48a7-8c95-0274b42dae27

Just watching Cousins yesterday and I was impressed. A 2nd or 3rd rounder would probably get him so that's a viable option- he has the tools and would obviously come cheap.

I know I said I wouldn't be pulled into the debate but there you go, noone has any interest in discussing anything else. :cool:

Realt Dearg Sec · 16-12-2013 11:15PM

I wouldn't mind abandoning the QB debate, because it's odd to be arguing so much when we're atop the division. Much more interested in the Tillman situation. Very sad to think we might not see him as a bear again.

kennyb3 · 17-12-2013 08:49AM

Lions beat - beautiful! Faith in our own hands even though i'm not confident at all. I don't fancy us to win either game let alone both, but i'd love to be wrong. Oh how the Skins and Vikes games hurt now!

aaronm13 · 17-12-2013 10:33AM

Bitter sweet news this morning, totally gutted for Tillman, oh how we could do with the peanut punch for the last two games. But fabulous result overnight. Really does make those two bad loses hurt even more.

kennyb3 · 17-12-2013 10:46AM

Even if we lose on Sunday - we still have a chance if we beat GB and the lions don't win both games.

So the GB game is huge regardless. And it will certainly be huge for Cutler - he really has a Flacco opportunity, lead the team to beat Gb and into the playoffs and he'll be getting significantly more than we've discussed before.

Psyched for the last 2 games!

kennyb3 · 17-12-2013 02:05PM

Time to Give Up on McClellin?

The Bears just can’t seem to get production out of Shea McClellin at DE. Whether he is ill-suited to the scheme or not remains an open question, but for a pass-rusher if nothing else he should be able to generate pressure on the edge, and he isn’t. Against the run this season his grade now stands at an ugly -17.6 but his pass rush grade is also firmly in the red at -9.2, -3.0 of which came in this game against the Browns. He wasn’t blanked, but generated just two hurries from 49 snaps and never really looked like a factor in the game. Maybe all he needs is a new scheme, and the switch from 4-3 to 3-4 has transformed players countless times in the past, but if the Bears aren’t planning on a schematic switch that dramatic themselves it must surely be time to move on from him and start again. His low point in the game came when he was completely lost on an option play the Browns ran, blowing contain entirely and getting turned around inside as he looked for the football.

New Boy Jeremiah

This Jeremiah Ratliff guy looks pretty handy, I wonder if he has played somewhere before? Seriously folks, the artist formerly known as Jay Ratliff looked a lot like the guy who used to be so dominant for the Cowboys at times in this game. The thing he always brought to the table was quickness on the inside. Often interior linemen are too used to dealing with powerful but relatively sluggish interior players, but Ratliff always brought speed off the snap. That speed isn’t just with his initial step, but also with his first move, and he tossed aside multiple members of the Cleveland interior in this game, leaving them grasping at air as he made plays in the backfield. He notched a pair of hits as well as a hurry and also chimed in with two big stops in the run game. It has been a long road back for Ratliff after injuries derailed his career, but playing like this he could prove to be one of the bargain pickups of the season.

padraig_f · 18-12-2013 12:04AM

Cool. Great to be at the business end of the season with something to play for. When I saw the Ravens win, pretty much my first thought was playing the Packers in week 17 for all the marbles. The players can't think like that though, tough game this week. The Eagles offense is one of the best performing in the league and the defense will need to not suck.

kennyb3 wrote: »

New Boy Jeremiah

This Jeremiah Ratliff guy looks pretty handy, I wonder if he has played somewhere before? Seriously folks, the artist formerly known as Jay Ratliff looked a lot like the guy who used to be so dominant for the Cowboys at times in this game. The thing he always brought to the table was quickness on the inside. Often interior linemen are too used to dealing with powerful but relatively sluggish interior players, but Ratliff always brought speed off the snap. That speed isn’t just with his initial step, but also with his first move, and he tossed aside multiple members of the Cleveland interior in this game, leaving them grasping at air as he made plays in the backfield. He notched a pair of hits as well as a hurry and also chimed in with two big stops in the run game. It has been a long road back for Ratliff after injuries derailed his career, but playing like this he could prove to be one of the bargain pickups of the season.

I check those PFF ratings most weeks to see the linemen, because I find it hard to evaluate them on the TV broadcast. That's the 2nd week in a row Ratliff has been the highest rated (or only positively-rated) d-lineman on the team.

SameOleJay · 18-12-2013 12:16PM

Incredible game and a remarkable season will have a climax- so happy it hasn’t petered out with only draft position to play for.

I have to sympathise with Lions’ fans. Their franchise is a flat out shambles. Schwartz is incompetent and Stafford has just fallen apart the last few weeks. The much vaunted D line is ridiculously inconsistent. They should have walked the North this year.

Part of me wants Rodgers back for Soldier Field I have to say. Beating them for the division would be a great springboard and, really, if we can’t win a home decider you don’t belong in the post-season.

Oat23 · 23-12-2013 01:19AM

Oat23 wrote: »

Yeah, the season is over for sure. I wasn't ready to call it after the Lions loss because the D played well that day, and Detroit aren't very good either (as they have shown the last two weeks).

I should have had more faith in the Lions f*cking up.

Huge game tonight..Win and we're in boys!

Miller1 · 23-12-2013 01:46AM

Shooting ourselves in the head so early..long night ahead i think

recylingbin · 23-12-2013 01:54AM

They've been ****
again

More galling this time because the eagles are a poor team.

Miller1 · 23-12-2013 02:02AM

recylingbin wrote: »

They've been ****
again

More galling this time because the eagles are a poor team.

Our defence would make a tag football team look great...could not stop a nose bleed.:mad:

Miller1 · 23-12-2013 02:03AM

Too easy for Phili

Itssoeasy · 23-12-2013 02:06AM

recylingbin wrote: »

They've been ****
again

More galling this time because the eagles are a poor team.

Ah here.

Miller1 · 23-12-2013 02:11AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Ah here.

Tbf their defence is ****....we have 20 or so yards first quarter against them...

Oat23 · 23-12-2013 02:32AM

Sh*t the bed bigtime. Next week will be...nervy.

Realt Dearg Sec · 23-12-2013 02:53AM

Terrible performance from the defense, I don't care how good their running back is. They picked up first downs for fun, particularly in the first quarter.

padraig_f · 23-12-2013 03:01AM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Terrible performance from the defense, I don't care how good their running back is. They picked up first downs for fun, particularly in the first quarter.

More than the defense though. Mistake to take the ball at the start of the game imo, then they go 3-and-out, too conservative on the early play-calling, running it too much. Then a ****ed up punt. Then a fumble from Hester. So you're down 14-0 with the defense only having given up about 70 yards.

How Bout Dem Bears?

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