Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

dundalkfc10 · 16-12-2013 07:54PM

Dempsey wrote: »

I dont see how organising charity events changes what I said tbh

You said "I wouldnt trust the GB to run a bath"

They are capable of running charity events, 7 a side tournaments, food collections for the homeless, concerts etc... regularly but you dont think they are trusted to run a bath!

Dempsey · 16-12-2013 08:07PM

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

Free speech.
The ability to wear a GB t shirt without fear of being kicked out of CP.
No matter what you or I or anyone else for that matter thinks of them,and they are admittedly crazy at times,they will still have more support than Lawwell will ever have,that's a fact.

How is that a fact?

The GB think they're in America with their notions of free speech. The problem with restrictions on freedom of speech in the UK stem from government & to a lesser extent competition rules i.e. UEFA & SPFL. They are barking up the wrong tree on that one, always were.

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

You said "I wouldnt trust the GB to run a bath"

They are capable of running charity events, 7 a side tournaments, food collections for the homeless, concerts etc... regularly but you dont think they are trusted to run a bath!

I said I dont trust them to run a bath.

dundalkfc10 · 16-12-2013 08:15PM

Dempsey wrote: »

How is that a fact?

The GB think they're in America with their notions of free speech. The problem with restrictions on freedom of speech in the UK stem from government & to a lesser extent competition rules i.e. UEFA & SPFL. They are barking up the wrong tree on that one, always were.

I said I dont trust them to run a bath.

Yes and my point was that many Charity Organisations trust them to run many events so your comment of "dont trust them to run a bath" is nonsense!

Dont know any any restrictions of Freedom of Speech in the UK. As for Uefa competition rules, its ok for Barcelona to have political banners but its not ok for Celtic!

Dempsey · 16-12-2013 08:27PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Yes and my point was that many Charity Organisations trust them to run many events so your comment of "dont trust them to run a bath" is nonsense!

Dont know any any restrictions of Freedom of Speech in the UK. As for Uefa competition rules, its ok for Barcelona to have political banners but its not ok for Celtic!

So I have to trust them because some do? I dont think so. Celtic trust in them to not bring political displays into Celtic Park was misguided.

RE: Bolded

Really? There is plenty of discussion on forums and the media in general about how the freedom of speech in the UK is hamstrung by its laws.

Again, why dont the GB take their case to UEFA etc? These are the people forcing Celtic's hand.

dundalkfc10 · 16-12-2013 08:35PM

Dempsey wrote: »

So I have to trust them because some do? I dont think so. Celtic trust in them to not bring political displays into Celtic Park was misguided.

RE: Bolded

Really? There is plenty of discussion on forums and the media in general about how the freedom of speech in the UK is hamstrung by its laws.

Again, why dont the GB take their case to UEFA etc? These are the people forcing Celtic's hand.

Where Uefa etc... forcing Celtics hand on the shocking scenes that took place inside and outside Celtic Park at the weekend?

Hagar the Nice. · 16-12-2013 08:38PM

Dempsey wrote: »

How is that a fact?

The GB think they're in America with their notions of free speech. The problem with restrictions on freedom of speech in the UK stem from government & to a lesser extent competition rules i.e. UEFA & SPFL. They are barking up the wrong tree on that one, always were.

I said I dont trust them to run a bath.

I'm on CelticMinded.com and I can tell you they have the backing of around 75% of the fans,GB or PL,the GB win hands down.

RoryMac · 16-12-2013 08:40PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Where Uefa etc... forcing Celtics hand on the shocking scenes that took place inside and outside Celtic Park at the weekend?

Shocking scenes?!

I'd be fairly sure the GB don't try to turn their attendance at charity events into a political rally, nor do they wreck seats or set off pyrotechnics so why the need to do it at a football game?

Dempsey · 16-12-2013 08:44PM

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

I'm on CelticMinded.com and I can tell you they have the backing of around 75% of the fans,GB or PL,the GB win hands down.

Thats that settled then! :rolleyes:

dundalkfc10 · 16-12-2013 08:49PM

RoryMac wrote: »

Shocking scenes?!

I'd be fairly sure the GB don't try to turn their attendance at charity events into a political rally, nor do they wreck seats or set off pyrotechnics so why the need to do it at a football game?

The Green Brigade "has insisted its members were not involved but admitted it should have policed its section of fans better" at Motherwell

Not one of the fans that were arrested were members of the GB

RoryMac · 16-12-2013 08:58PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

The Green Brigade "has insisted its members were not involved but admitted it should have policed its section of fans better" at Motherwell

Not one of the fans that were arrested were members of the GB

They also said the banner at the Milan game would be football related so I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in their statements.

I doubt they would be invited to help many charities if they behaved at them the way they do at times at football games but they seem to think they have free reign to do what they like inside the grounds despite the numerous warnings.

dundalkfc10 · 16-12-2013 09:19PM

RoryMac wrote: »

They also said the banner at the Milan game would be football related so I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in their statements.

I doubt they would be invited to help many charities if they behaved at them the way they do at times at football games but they seem to think they have free reign to do what they like inside the grounds despite the numerous warnings.

http://celticjournal.org/3669/green-brigade-statement-271113/

The Green Brigade are disappointed by the statement made by Celtic Football Club in regards to this incident. The Club’s statement claims that we assured them that our display would be purely football related but that in fact it had nothing to do with football. In reality however what was assured to them was that our plans were completely relative to Celtic and indeed football. Given that it is Celtic fans who are filling up prison cells and court rooms because of the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, and the manner in which it criminalises legitimate expression of political opinion, this display could not have been more relevant in the current context. The fans are the lifeblood of any football club and to deem fan issues as irrelevant is frankly disgraceful.

Dempsey · 16-12-2013 09:32PM

Why not just do a FAC banner then? Using Bobby Sands & William Wallace with a muddled statement made it more about their political views than anything else.

dundalkfc10 · 16-12-2013 09:32PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Why not just do a FAC banner then? Using Bobby Sands & William Wallace with a muddled statement made it more about their political views than anything else.

IMO it was a fantastic way to get their point across

RoisinD · 16-12-2013 09:39PM

PauloMN wrote: »

Well I'm not going to defend them over issues that cost our club £40k and further such issues could have actually cost us places in the competition.

How much have Celtic made out of the Green Brigade? A lot more than £40k I bet.

Dempsey · 16-12-2013 09:40PM

RoisinD wrote: »

How much have Celtic made out of the Green Brigade? A lot more than £40k I bet.

How much have the GB made out of Celtic?

RoisinD · 16-12-2013 09:44PM

Dempsey wrote: »

So I have to trust them because some do? I dont think so. Celtic trust in them to not bring political displays into Celtic Park was misguided.

RE: Bolded

Really? There is plenty of discussion on forums and the media in general about how the freedom of speech in the UK is hamstrung by its laws.

Again, why dont the GB take their case to UEFA etc? These are the people forcing Celtic's hand.

Maybe the GB will and I for one will be supporting them. They are not forcing Celtic's hand. Celtic are rolling over as it suits the agenda of Peter Lawell and Ronnie Hawthorne. No doubt about it. How can they commemorate Nelson Mandela and allow Barcelona fans to show political banners yet not a murmur from UEFA or questioning from Celtic.

RoisinD · 16-12-2013 09:46PM

Dempsey wrote: »

How much have the GB made out of Celtic?

I will indulge you ........... The GB do not make any money but rely on their own and their supporters to fund their displays etc. I ask again how much have Celtic made out of the GB?

RoryMac · 16-12-2013 09:46PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

http://celticjournal.org/3669/green-brigade-statement-271113/

The Green Brigade are disappointed by the statement made by Celtic Football Club in regards to this incident. The Club’s statement claims that we assured them that our display would be purely football related but that in fact it had nothing to do with football. In reality however what was assured to them was that our plans were completely relative to Celtic and indeed football. Given that it is Celtic fans who are filling up prison cells and court rooms because of the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, and the manner in which it criminalises legitimate expression of political opinion, this display could not have been more relevant in the current context. The fans are the lifeblood of any football club and to deem fan issues as irrelevant is frankly disgraceful.

If the GB were so concerned with looking out for fans perhaps they would stop using the club as a vehicle to promote their political views

Dempsey · 16-12-2013 09:56PM

RoisinD wrote: »

I will indulge you ........... The GB do not make any money but rely on their own and their supporters to fund their displays etc. I ask again how much have Celtic made out of the GB?

They make money and they spend it on displays or whatever interests them.

I dunno, is it £150,000? More? Does it really matter? Celtic are expected to monetize everything that happens within Celtic Park, they'd be criticized if they didnt.

You think Celtic should continue to take punishments for the GB? GB just want their ego stroked imo

If Lawwell really wanted them gone, why give them a reprieve from a ban?

dundalkfc10 · 16-12-2013 10:01PM

Dempsey wrote: »

They make money and they spend it on displays or whatever interests them.

I dunno, is it £150,000? More? Does it really matter? Celtic are expected to monetize everything that happens within Celtic Park, they'd be criticized if they didnt.

You think Celtic should continue to take punishments for the GB? GB just want their ego stroked imo

If Lawwell really wanted them gone, why give them a reprieve from a ban?

For the exact reasons that started to show at the weekend and is just going to get worse and worse, ATTENDANCES!

Dempsey · 16-12-2013 10:03PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

For the exact reasons that started to show at the weekend and is just going to get worse and worse, ATTENDANCES!

The weather had no affect on attendances in Scottish Football at the weekend. Its all down the banning of the GB!

RoisinD · 16-12-2013 10:15PM

Dempsey wrote: »

They make money and they spend it on displays or whatever interests them.

I dunno, is it £150,000? More? Does it really matter? Celtic are expected to monetize everything that happens within Celtic Park, they'd be criticized if they didnt.

You think Celtic should continue to take punishments for the GB? GB just want their ego stroked imo

If Lawwell really wanted them gone, why give them a reprieve from a ban?

Celtic have made a tidy sum from the Green Brigade. www.justcantgetenough.co.uk/ Tshirts and other merchandise, Glasgow's green and white etc have been exploited by Celtic with the sole aim of making money. I really am not too bothered but given that the sum of £40k was quoted as the sum being paid in fines, my point is that Celtic are well ahead in what they have made by using the Green Brigade.

Of course Lawell wants the GB gone as does Ronnie Hawthorne. They don't want fans at CP they want customers who will do as they are told and conform. It is very easy to blame the GB especially when some believe everything that comes out of CP. Banning people who were not even at the game and treating them like criminals both at the Nou Camp and at Celtic Park on Saturday leaves a nasty taste for some of us. In all the years that I and my family travelled to Glasgow every two weeks or more often for midweek games I have never seen things as bad. Not one of us are travelling anymore and I know of many others who are the same.

Dempsey · 16-12-2013 10:49PM

RoisinD wrote: »

Celtic have made a tidy sum from the Green Brigade. www.justcantgetenough.co.uk/ Tshirts and other merchandise, Glasgow's green and white etc have been exploited by Celtic with the sole aim of making money. I really am not too bothered but given that the sum of £40k was quoted as the sum being paid in fines, my point is that Celtic are well ahead in what they have made by using the Green Brigade.

Of course Lawell wants the GB gone as does Ronnie Hawthorne. They don't want fans at CP they want customers who will do as they are told and conform. It is very easy to blame the GB especially when some believe everything that comes out of CP. Banning people who were not even at the game and treating them like criminals both at the Nou Camp and at Celtic Park on Saturday leaves a nasty taste for some of us. In all the years that I and my family travelled to Glasgow every two weeks or more often for midweek games I have never seen things as bad. Not one of us are travelling anymore and I know of many others who are the same.

So Celtic are suppose to pay fines & take punishments to stroke the GB's ego?

Of course the stewards want them dealt with because they dont listen. The GB want to be a law unto themselves. That was evident with the "our watch" claptrap in their statement.

I'd wager a guess that the scaling back of people travelling to Glasgow from Ireland is more down to simple economics than the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, or treatment of the GB.

RoisinD · 16-12-2013 10:56PM

RoryMac wrote: »

If the GB were so concerned with looking out for fans perhaps they would stop using the club as a vehicle to promote their political views

What political views would they be? The ones where an MSP and others in the SNP introduced a piece of legislation solely with the intent of getting more Celtic fans arrested? The best summary I can find on it is the following from Michael McMahon MSP.
'Mr MacMahon continued : “Questions already exist about Ms Grahame's neutrality while considering the so called Bigot Bill as she appears to believe that more Catholics need to be arrested to even things up in society. She clearly cannot be viewed as an impartial participant in the process of scrutinising this controversial legislation and while these allegations remain under investigation she should not be steering the Committee's interrogation of the Government's unpopular proposal" '

Or would it be the hypocrisyof Scottish establishment given their rousing renditions of Flower of Scotland, the adoration of William Wallace and other Scottish heroes and their condemnation of anything to do with Ireland.

The phrase people in glass houses etc springs to mind. Good on the GB for highlighting these issues particularly when most of the other side is being promoted by Lawell and his supporters in the media. At least they are raising the issues and promoting debate. If the majority are willing to conform and be told what to do and when then so be it. At least they will be in no position to complain if CP is like a morgue with customers clapping politely and singing 'come on the hoops' via a conductor.

Jelle1880 · 16-12-2013 11:10PM

RoisinD wrote: »

What political views would they be? The ones where an MSP and others in the SNP introduced a piece of legislation solely with the intent of getting more Celtic fans arrested? The best summary I can find on it is the following from Michael McMahon MSP.
'Mr MacMahon continued : “Questions already exist about Ms Grahame's neutrality while considering the so called Bigot Bill as she appears to believe that more Catholics need to be arrested to even things up in society. She clearly cannot be viewed as an impartial participant in the process of scrutinising this controversial legislation and while these allegations remain under investigation she should not be steering the Committee's interrogation of the Government's unpopular proposal" '

Or would it be the hypocrisyof Scottish establishment given their rousing renditions of Flower of Scotland, the adoration of William Wallace and other Scottish heroes and their condemnation of anything to do with Ireland.

The phrase people in glass houses etc springs to mind. Good on the GB for highlighting these issues particularly when most of the other side is being promoted by Lawell and his supporters in the media. At least they are raising the issues and promoting debate. If the majority are willing to conform and be told what to do and when then so be it. At least they will be in no position to complain if CP is like a morgue with customers clapping politely and singing 'come on the hoops' via a conductor.

Bloody hell, are you really that brainwashed that you believe the Bill is anti-Celtic or even worse, anti-Catholic or anti-Irish ?

It's anti-football fans in general, not only Celtic fans are being arrested or charged with stupid crimes, Motherwell, Hearts, Rangers, Aberdeen,... fans have all been subjected to it.

And your comparison with Flower of Scotland is just silly, do you even know the lyrics ?

Here's a little hint:

Those days are past now
And in the past
They must remain

It is not anti-English, it is merely about historic events while clearly emphasizing that they are in the past.

What it has to do with 'condemning anything to do with Ireland' is beyond me, unless you think that banners about Bobby Sands are a celebration of Irish culture and should therefore be treasured ?

RoisinD · 16-12-2013 11:20PM

Dempsey wrote: »

So Celtic are suppose to pay fines & take punishments to stroke the GB's ego?

Of course the stewards want them dealt with because they dont listen. The GB want to be a law unto themselves. That was evident with the "our watch" claptrap in their statement.

I'd wager a guess that the scaling back of people travelling to Glasgow from Ireland is more down to simple economics than the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, or treatment of the GB.

Not at all. I didn't raise the money issue. Someone else did. I was just pointing out that Celtic are well ahead in the money stakes. Nothing to do with egos or any kind of stroking.

I assume you attend games regularly and spend a lot of time in Glasgow as you seem to be so clued in to what is happening. You have indicated in your reply that I indicated that people were not travelling from Ireland due to Bill or the treatment of the GB. I didn't state that. Let me reiterate what I said 'In all the years that I and my family travelled to Glasgow every two weeks or more often for midweek games I have never seen things as bad. Not one of us are travelling anymore and I know of many others who are the same.' That statement is quite different from your interpretation. I am going on my own and others experience not speaking on behalf of the travelling support from Ireland. I would not be so arrogant as to assume why those I don't know are not going to matches anymore. Of course for those that I do know the treatment by stewards and police does play a part in it and although the number of trips may have been reduced due to finances they certainly would not have stopped travelling which is the case for some.

RoisinD · 16-12-2013 11:34PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Bloody hell, are you really that brainwashed that you believe the Bill is anti-Celtic or even worse, anti-Catholic or anti-Irish ?

It's anti-football fans in general, not only Celtic fans are being arrested or charged with stupid crimes, Motherwell, Hearts, Rangers, Aberdeen,... fans have all been subjected to it.

And your comparison with Flower of Scotland is just silly, do you even know the lyrics ?

Here's a little hint:

It is not anti-English, it is merely about historic events while clearly emphasizing that they are in the past.

What it has to do with 'condemning anything to do with Ireland' is beyond me, unless you think that banners about Bobby Sands are a celebration of Irish culture and should therefore be treasured ?

Just a quick response as we are going round in circles and getting into other areas of debate. I was quoting Michael McMahon who was asking questions about Christine Graham and some of her comments. I thought that was clear enough but obviously not.

Incidentally I never mentioned Bobby Sands but I assume you are referring to the banner with the other one of William Wallace. Again, I think the message was clear but then again maybe not for some.

As I said this is in danger of being side tracked so I will leave it there.

dundalkfc10 · 16-12-2013 11:37PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Bloody hell, are you really that brainwashed that you believe the Bill is anti-Celtic or even worse, anti-Catholic or anti-Irish ?

It's anti-football fans in general, not only Celtic fans are being arrested or charged with stupid crimes, Motherwell, Hearts, Rangers, Aberdeen,... fans have all been subjected to it.

And your comparison with Flower of Scotland is just silly, do you even know the lyrics ?

Here's a little hint:

It is not anti-English, it is merely about historic events while clearly emphasizing that they are in the past.

What it has to do with 'condemning anything to do with Ireland' is beyond me, unless you think that banners about Bobby Sands are a celebration of Irish culture and should therefore be treasured ?

"That fought and died for
Your wee bit hill and glen
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again"

Jelle1880 · 17-12-2013 12:33AM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

"That fought and died for
Your wee bit hill and glen
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again"

I'm well aware the banners were about that song, but comparing Wallace to Sands is just ridiculous, trying to equate Flower of Scotland to songs like Roll of Honour (which is apparently the biggest issue among some banned songs among the GB) is even more ridiculous.

RoisinD wrote: »

Just a quick response as we are going round in circles and getting into other areas of debate. I was quoting Michael McMahon who was asking questions about Christine Graham and some of her comments. I thought that was clear enough but obviously not.

Incidentally I never mentioned Bobby Sands but I assume you are referring to the banner with the other one of William Wallace. Again, I think the message was clear but then again maybe not for some.

As I said this is in danger of being side tracked so I will leave it there.

McMahon has some neck to talk about impartiality, given his club allegiance which is pretty well known.
There is nothing to indicate that Christine Grahame wants the Bill in place so 'more Catholics' could be arrested, that's a pure victim mentality which has no place in a serious debate like the one about the Bill.

Apologies for going on about this

Hagar the Nice. · 17-12-2013 11:05AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I'm well aware the banners were about that song, but comparing Wallace to Sands is just ridiculous, trying to equate Flower of Scotland to songs like Roll of Honour (which is apparently the biggest issue among some banned songs among the GB) is even more ridiculous.

McMahon has some neck to talk about impartiality, given his club allegiance which is pretty well known.
There is nothing to indicate that Christine Grahame wants the Bill in place so 'more Catholics' could be arrested, that's a pure victim mentality which has no place in a serious debate like the one about the Bill.

Apologies for going on about this

Although I'm SNP to the core,Michael McMahon is a top notch politician,works incredibly hard for his constituents too and a top bloke.

Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

Comments