Well said Roger Waters.

Wibbs wrote: »

No? Look at a map of Israel showing the Israeli areas and the Arab areas. Look at one from 1950. Look at a map of Israel from today. This simple graphic will show even the most blinkered that the Israelis have been utter pricks to the locals.

Yes, forgetting lands lost to Israel when their Arab neighbours invaded (and lost) in 1967.. You're forgetting the majority of Israeli wars and the spoils of their victories were in wars initiated by their neighbours.

Wibbs wrote: »

Someone mentioned Aparthied South Africa. Funny, one of the few nations that kept in major contact with the SA regime when everyone else saw them as pariahs were the? Yep the Israelis. Involved in their military too.

This might be a better comparison to apartheid South Africa..

"Israel is an apartheid state" is a tired old sound bite we regularly hear regurgitated by anti-Israel activists. Their aim is to delegitimise the existence of Israel by equating it with apartheid-era South Africa. While the simple slogan appears attractive to those not used to exercising their critical thinking abilities, the analogy falls apart under closer scrutiny. Maybe they’re hoping that if a lie is repeated often enough it will become truth. The only way to combat ignorance is with education so allow me to present several reasons why it’s factually incorrect to label Israel an apartheid state.

Politics
One of the defining characteristics of apartheid in South Africa was the denial of the vote for blacks. Arab Israelis, meanwhile, enjoy full voting rights and representation in government. Some of the Arab political parties present in the Knesset include Balad, Hadash (a mixed Jewish and Arab socialist party) and the United Arab List. Arabs have even reached cabinet level of government, with Raleb Majadele becoming the first in 2007. Arabs currently constitute approximately 10% of ministers in the national parliament.

Education
In apartheid South Africa, blacks and whites had to be educated separately by law. This is not the case in Israel, where Jews and Arabs have the option to attend mixed schools. Yes, separate Jewish schools do exist that specialise in a religious education (the same way Ireland has “Catholic” schools), but as Israel is a signatory of the Convention against Discrimination in Education, Arabs are free to enrol in such institutions if they wish. In practice however, the language barrier means that Arabs opt to attend classes in Arabic while their Jewish counterparts are educated separately in Hebrew. Meanwhile under Hamas controlled Gaza, gender segregation is mandatory. Such is the norm in many Islamic countries. In Iraq, for example, boys and girls are required by law to study separately after age 12.

Gay and women’s rights
Israeli Arabs enjoy political freedoms that are unknown in the Arab world. While homosexuals can still legally be executed in Saudi Arabia, Yemen and the UAE, gay men and women in Israel don’t have to hide in the closet for fear of being hanged. Tel Aviv has a thriving LGBT scene and even markets itself as a gay tourist destination.

It is feared that the recent upsurge of the Muslim Brotherhood post-Arab Spring has been a step back for women’s rights across the wider Arab world. No such worries in Israel where the law prohibits discrimination based on gender and women enjoy equal status with men, including simple things that we take for granted in the West such as the right to vote and the right to drive (both currently denied in Saudi Arabia). And don’t get me started on the Saudis’ bizarre gender segregation laws. Now there’s real apartheid.

Pop culture
People from all creeds and colours enjoy success in Israel, as evident by the pop culture scene. The national football team includes Arab Muslims like Maharan Radi. Miss Israel 2013 is a black Ethiopian. An Arab Christian, Lina Makhoul, was the 2013 winner of The Voice Israel.

I have spent a significant amount of time in Israel and I have never seen any separate toilets for Arabs and Jews as was the case with blacks and whites in apartheid South Africa. Nor are there separate restaurants. The apartheid mantra falls at every hurdle. Even the most ardent opponents of Israel cannot deny the facts. Israel is a bastion of multiculturalism. Jews, Arabs, Bedouin, and Druze – all call Israel home. Would Jews be as welcome in a neighbouring Arab country? Recent historical events like the Naqba suggest no. It’s okay to have an open debate critical of Israeli domestic and foreign policy, but let’s at least keep it honest and grounded in facts. Twisted truths and apartheid myths only serve to muddy the waters.

Agree with every single word he says. The modern Jewish state has a lot to answer for as their crimes are wide and varied. Shame on them you would have imagined they would know better given the atrocities carried out against them.

Xzavier Quaint Comic wrote: »

Oh if you want to talk about controlling powers and comparisons with apartheid S.A. we can look at the treatment of Palestinians BY Palestinians in both Gaza and the Palestinian authorities in the W.B. ~ or look further afield in the Arab world were they're treated with absolute distain in places like Lebanon etc.

By Jesus as tough as it is to neighbour and be at war with Israel is, the daily hardships imposed by their (Pals) own elected governments pales in comparison and well you and every educated person here knows it.

So can you debate the other comparsions I've made, ie education, racial segregation, gay rights etc?.

I answered that in
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88016889&postcount=16

They aren't just sitting there manning checkpoints for the craic. They're colonising the place. That's a red line. I don't give a rat's ass if they were only going to have a state for a few decades before having a housing bubble and owing the whole lot to ze Germans - they're entitled to a state of their own, without the neighbours lunatics onboard.

Wibbs wrote: »

Are you seriously claiming that Israel hasn't taken Palestinian land since 1950 and continues to do so today? If you are I'd suggest you ask the UN cos there are few open cases against Israel in their law files.

Don't try twist my words, I've more respect for you than that Wibbs... You know well thats not what I mean.

And you're an educated man, I'm sure you know the history of the 1967 war and how Jordan and Egypt lost lands (which Israel now occupy) to Israel in wars they themselves initiated.

And how Jordan was foolishly drawn into that war beliving Egyptian lies that Egyptian forces were marching on a defeated Tel Aviv.

Same goes for The Golan ~ Syrian forces attacked Israel twice over The Golan and lost, tough titty ~ Israel's neighbours really should pick their battles wisely.

I've wrote here often enough of my opposition to the continued expansion into Arabs lands in the W.B. so you can't be ignorant of my views there.

DeadHand wrote: »

@Compu Global Hyper Meganet

Whatever else it is, Israel is a state recognised by 83% of UN members. That's every European member, every country in the Americas bar Cuba, every country in Oceania, the majority of African countries and the majority of Asian countries.

Those that do not recognise it include such stable, progressive bastions of human rights as: North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Pakistan and Iran.

I'd rather live in Tel Aviv any day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Recognition_of_Israel.svg

32 countries not recognising your legitimacy is a significant number. It also has to be borne in mind that many of the sovereign states who do recognise Israel do so only based on technicalities. Many treaties and peace agreements that were entered into were only done so on the basis of the recognition of Israel, so that skews the figures somewhat.

mad muffin wrote: »

There are many Israeli Arabs in government.

...in the Knesset? If theres Arabs in Likuds government, the world must be about to end.