Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

Dempsey · 14-12-2013 11:36AM

Lennonist wrote: »

Some pathetic crawthumping going on around here. Yes we are all Celtic fans lads, that doesn't mean those who run the club are beyond criticism or that they should be prepared to consider adapting to changing circumstances and apply some flexibility.

As for this hankering for Rangers, they'll be back the season after next, do you think we can survive until then? It's pathetic. We've done well in their absence, had first bite of the cherry when it came to Europe every time. I always enjoyed the Euro nights, even the ones this season when we often struggled much more than any "Old Firm Derby" as it used to be called. I want Celtic positioning themselves to be a regular competitive club at CL Group Stage level with getting beyond that being a bonus or getting into the EL latter stages. I don't think that's unrealisitic. It might happen slower than I would like, but I'm still hopeful they will realise they need to open the purse strings a bit over the next two transfer windows to get that bit of quality that is needed to ensure CL qualification and to do better when we get there.

Did anyone suggest the club is beyond criticism? Personally, I've stated their failings several times regarding player development & coaching. We all have our opinions about where the club can improve and I think we're going around in circles about it at this stage.

We dont need Rangers in the league to put a high expectation on the players and expect a certain attitude during every match. Lennon should drop players that are falling below the level expected/capable. Thats how you keep players on their toes. Also, there has been as many seasons where the league was wrapped up with several matches to spare as there was ones where it went down to the wire. Also, Rangers managed to set high standards for themselves, regardless of the money spent, whilst Celtic was imploding during the 90's.

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

If there is any major activity in the January transfer window it will be players leaving, the board aren't going to make a major signing in January and pay a decent player half a season's wages for a league as good as won and with no European football.

If they have plans to bring in a bit of quality the best we can hope for is for it to be done before next season's Champion's League qualification rounds, and knowing the board they will probably wait until after qualification has been decided.

Lennon has already stated that he wants to try and get his targets in January so they are bedded in for the UCL qualifiers. We all know that getting players in january is difficult but hopefully the club have identified players that could get january moves

EDIT

Celtic defender Adam Matthews believes the side's heavy defeat in the Nou Camp was on account of being too cocky. (Record)

They win two games and it went straight to their heads against one of the best attacking sides ever. Clowns!

Lennonist · 14-12-2013 01:00PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Did anyone suggest the club is beyond criticism? Personally, I've stated their failings several times regarding player development & coaching. We all have our opinions about where the club can improve and I think we're going around in circles about it at this stage.

We dont need Rangers in the league to put a high expectation on the players and expect a certain attitude during every match. Lennon should drop players that are falling below the level expected/capable. Thats how you keep players on their toes. Also, there has been as many seasons where the league was wrapped up with several matches to spare as there was ones where it went down to the wire. Also, Rangers managed to set high standards for themselves, regardless of the money spent, whilst Celtic was imploding during the 90's.

I agree with what you're saying there and it wasn't necessarily yourself that I was referring to when I was talking about some who appear to be reluctant to question the way the club operates at times, while acknowledging that it has been generally run well in financial terms in recent years. I think some changes and tweaking to the financial model is required in accordance with the fact that the club have been in the CL for the last couple of seasons and need to kick on somewhat to maintain a presence at that level and perform better in it.

rosskind · 14-12-2013 01:03PM

Of course Lennon and Lawwell aren't above criticism. They haven't brought in an attacking coach (I think Demspey brought it up before) for some reason. I don't know who's decision that is, but I think there are a lot of people who could help us so I think that's a big mistake. But (repeating my point) I don't think there's a proven striker out there that would join, so I can't blame them for that.

In 92-93, the first CL, Rangers beat Leeds in the first round and impressively only finished behind a point behind Marseille, who went on to win the final, in the group stages. Then lost to Levski Sofia and AEK in successive qualfying rounds. Went winless (three draws) in six group games. Then one win (five losses). Lost a qualifier to Gotenburg. And that's while spending big and attracting England internationals at their peak. They won league titles by 9, 3, 15, 4 and 5 points in that time by the way. Given the spending capacity of rivals both domestically and in Europe, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest they could have done more. I'd argue that's being dragged down to the level of other SPL teams.

Lennonist · 14-12-2013 01:06PM

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

If there is any major activity in the January transfer window it will be players leaving, the board aren't going to make a major signing in January and pay a decent player half a season's wages for a league as good as won and with no European football.

If they have plans to bring in a bit of quality the best we can hope for is for it to be done before next season's Champion's League qualification rounds, and knowing the board they will probably wait until after qualification has been decided.

This is where changes are necessary, the board should not wait until the last minute to secure signings for the CL Group Stages and should not be taking chances with the qualifying process. If they are selling players, they should have reasonable replacements lined up and bedded in in time for next seasons CL campaign, and they should be prepared to pay a bit more when necessary for the right players, given that the club are in a healthy financial position due to recent CL campaigns.

Lennon has said recently they are hoping to sign players in January so that they will be bedded in for next summer's qualifiers, hopefully we'll see movement on that.

Dempsey · 14-12-2013 01:14PM

Lennonist wrote: »

This is where changes are necessary, the board should not wait until the last minute to secure signings for the CL Group Stages and should not be taking chances with the qualifying process. If they are selling players, they should have reasonable replacements lined up and bedded in in time for next seasons CL campaign, and they should be prepared to pay a bit more when necessary for the right players, given that the club are in a healthy financial position due to recent CL campaigns.

Lennon has said recently they are hoping to sign players in January so that they will be bedded in for next summer's qualifiers, hopefully we'll see movement on that.

Lennon has stated that only having 2 weeks from UCL qualification to close of transfer window is a major factor as most of his targets get hoovered up by other clubs in bigger leagues. It will take several more windows before we reach the levels of Ajax & Porto with scouting, squad building & player development.

rosskind · 14-12-2013 01:51PM

I do question the way the club is run. I agree with your criticisms/suggestions, for the most part.

We should have prepared better for the loses of Hooper and Wanyama, 100%. If we didn't have loads of players lined up and make loads of enquiries, then yes, the board have let us down. But the quality of player we need doesn't want to join us. We looked at Finnbogason and maybe if we'd got him we'd be in the last 16 draw on Monday. So now, instead a failure, suddenly the board are all masterminds just down to the fact that Heerenveen decided to accept our bid rather than reject it.

Signings were left too late, 100%. But there were rumours of players waiting til after the second Karagandy match to sign up. I can only imagine that's true, because why would anyone want to join us without European games. And that's only taking into account the players still on the market. No one is going to wait on offers from other clubs just to see if we qualify. Hopefully, as you say, we can sort the late signings thing out this year but there's not a lot we can do because the quality of player we need doesn't want to join us. We didn't help ourselves with that first leg result. Straight-up entry to the groups would be great but that seems a long way off. Hopefully a few other clubs can help us out with the coefficient.

A bit more money could be spent, 100%. I'm sure if they'd be willing to sign Long but I don't think he'd come. Same with Fletcher. They're probably not quite good enough to play for a top EPL clubs, but Europa challenger quality. The next class of striker who haven't been quite so succesful, like Jelavic or Frazier Campbell, aren't much of an improvement on what we have. I'd take them, they are very good players but last 16 wouldn't be much closer/easier.

I can't say this enough because I don't think it's getting through; the quality of the player we need doesn't want to join us!!!

Lennonist · 14-12-2013 02:26PM

rosskind wrote: »

I do question the way the club is run. I agree with your criticisms/suggestions, for the most part.

We should have prepared better for the loses of Hooper and Wanyama, 100%. If we didn't have loads of players lined up and make loads of enquiries, then yes, the board have let us down. But the quality of player we need doesn't want to join us. We looked at Finnbogason and maybe if we'd got him we'd be in the last 16 draw on Monday. So now, instead a failure, suddenly the board are all masterminds just down to the fact that Heerenveen decided to accept our bid rather than reject it.

Signings were left too late, 100%. But there were rumours of players waiting til after the second Karagandy match to sign up. I can only imagine that's true, because why would anyone want to join us without European games. And that's only taking into account the players still on the market. No one is going to wait on offers from other clubs just to see if we qualify. Hopefully, as you say, we can sort the late signings thing out this year but there's not a lot we can do because the quality of player we need doesn't want to join us. We didn't help ourselves with that first leg result. Straight-up entry to the groups would be great but that seems a long way off. Hopefully a few other clubs can help us out with the coefficient.

A bit more money could be spent, 100%. I'm sure if they'd be willing to sign Long but I don't think he'd come. Same with Fletcher. They're probably not quite good enough to play for a top EPL clubs, but Europa challenger quality. The next class of striker who haven't been quite so succesful, like Jelavic or Frazier Campbell, aren't much of an improvement on what we have. I'd take them, they are very good players but last 16 wouldn't be much closer/easier.

I can't say this enough because I don't think it's getting through; the quality of the player we need doesn't want to join us!!!

You were doing fine until the last bit when you appear to contradict what you're saying. We don't need to sign top drawer strikers to ensure we qualify and do better in the CL Group Stages when we get there. However we can get better quality strikers than we got last summer, we can get better quality to replace Hooper than we ended up with and we had plenty of time and more money to do so. That is the point I'm making, the board need to do better in relation to signing policy and other aspects of development and coaching etc.

Stop going on about the last 16 by the way, last 16 would still be bonus territory, what I'm talking about is making necessary changes to ensure we keep qualifying and that when we get there we do better than this season, finishing bottom with one win and 3 goals.

Dempsey · 14-12-2013 02:36PM

Forster; Lustig, Ambrose, van Dijk, Izaguirre; Brown, Biton, Ledley, Commons; Stokes, Pukki (MH)

Subs: Zaluska, Matthews, Samaras, Fisher, Atajic, Henderson, Balde. (MH)

I think Balde will have to pay property tax for that spot he has on the bench soon enough

Antifa161 · 14-12-2013 02:48PM

Lennon literally said the other day he would be making changes for this game :rolleyes:

Dempsey · 14-12-2013 02:53PM

Matthews -> Izzy
Samaras -> Stokes
Boerrigter -> Commons

Changes made but nothing drastic. Wasnt expecting much else tbh

Dempsey · 14-12-2013 03:31PM

Pukki, Ledley Assist

Brown & Ledley combining well to give Pukki a tap in. Least Pukki's getting into the right areas now, hope to see more of that

dundalkfc10 · 14-12-2013 03:52PM

A Celtic fan has just said on twitter he was ejected from Celtic Park today for wearing a Green Brigade Scarf

Pompey Magnus · 14-12-2013 03:59PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Lennon has already stated that he wants to try and get his targets in January so they are bedded in for the UCL qualifiers. We all know that getting players in january is difficult but hopefully the club have identified players that could get january moves

This time last year he was also talking about signings that he had lined up for January, in the end he bought one player - Rogic, and loaned in Gershon, together they had just a handful of appearances and no real impact on the team. That was with a Champions League game with Juventus on the horizon and the millions that qualification from the group brought so I am going to expect nothing more next month but I will hope to be wrong.

The team desperately needs a good quality goal scorer but Lennon will have half a dozen forwards in his squad once Bangura returns and it would ridiculous adding another without getting rid of a few first.

Carroller · 14-12-2013 04:01PM

In CP now! From where I'm sitting looks like two people have been ejected, one from the half empty 111 and another from the opposite corner(122) I think

Edit: another 2 just as the second half starts

Coillte_Bhoy · 14-12-2013 04:03PM

Carroller wrote: »

In CP now! From where I'm sitting looks like two people have been ejected, one from the half empty 111 and another from the opposite corner(122) I think

Reading that stewards and police are being heavy handed today?

The_Kew_Tour · 14-12-2013 04:22PM

Should have scored just few minutes ago.

Celtic better side no question though.

PauloMN · 14-12-2013 04:32PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Should have scored just few minutes ago.

Celtic better side no question though.

Ambrose's mistake I read elsewhere. Becoming all too usual now. Believe Izzy is having a good game.

Carroller · 14-12-2013 05:43PM

Izzy best player by far made the hibs right back look like a school boy!

All in all a DULL game that lacked athmosphere and any real urgency from Celtic.

Regarding the police all seemed normal outside of the ground but inside stewards were constantly patrolling 111 and 122 who were trying to get a few songs going and boos went around as they took people from the ground.

Hagar the Nice. · 14-12-2013 06:05PM

From what I know of,some fans were refused entry for wearing GB merchandise.

The_Kew_Tour · 14-12-2013 06:13PM

I know very little about 99.99% of the GB backgrounds, but are they really all that bad. Are they mostly Scots or have they big Norn Ireland element also?

The last thing Celtic want is to lose fans at this stage.

rosskind · 14-12-2013 06:16PM

I do apologies cause this is getting repetitive so I'll try to finish up. I just mean that the acquisition of a top striker won't stop us having a bad day like in Karagandy. You say we have to spend to continue to qualify for the group stage but I disagree, I think we're doing fine as it is. Our budget is bigger than all teams we'll meet in the champions route. That's been a blessing, one thing we can thank Platini for.

Anyway, decent game. Dominant first half, tired second. Izzy was great. Biton looks very good. Lustig was good too, but still gets subbed after 70 minutes. And this goes way back, even before this hip injury. I wonder what it is and if it will every get better.

Dempsey · 14-12-2013 06:27PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I know very little about 99.99% of the GB backgrounds, but are they really all that bad. Are they mostly Scots or have they big Norn Ireland element also?

The last thing Celtic want is to lose fans at this stage.

Trouble just seems to follow them everywhere they go and they dont listen to the club about their behaviour. They lack the most basic common sense tbh. How many fines and punishments does have to take from fan behaviour before knocking it on the head? 7 fines for Celtic in 7 years from UEFA totalling ~£150,000 i read. Punishment from the SPFL to come over Fir Park. Action has to be taken before the club gets worse punishments than the fines they are getting.

Antifa161 · 14-12-2013 06:38PM

We must have a hefty fine coming in for the Mandela banner/display too. When will these people learn to just support the club the way we want them to?

Hagar the Nice. · 14-12-2013 06:41PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I know very little about 99.99% of the GB backgrounds, but are they really all that bad. Are they mostly Scots or have they big Norn Ireland element also?

The last thing Celtic want is to lose fans at this stage.

There was around 25/30 k there today and taking into consideration the awful weather,it wasn't too bad a turn out,however,there was an element of animosity towards the stewards as folk were being told to sit down or be thrown out,it will be Celtic's loss if they antagonise the support too much.
BTW,Izzy never won motm today.

LiamoSail · 14-12-2013 06:42PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Trouble just seems to follow them everywhere they go and they dont listen to the club about their behaviour. They lack the most basic common sense tbh. How many fines and punishments does have to take from fan behaviour before knocking it on the head? 7 fines for Celtic in 7 years from UEFA totalling ~£150,000 i read. Punishment from the SPFL to come over Fir Park. Action has to be taken before the club gets worse punishments than the fines they are getting.

Those seven fines though, that includes the dida incident a few years back, hardly the GB's fault

I'd disagree also about the common sense. While I don't always agree with their actions, to dismiss them as lacking common sense is lazy IMO. They're a well organised group, who's controversial actions are a result of their strong political views, which they are too stubborn to compromise on, as oppose to a lack of common sense

Antifa161 · 14-12-2013 06:43PM

What compromise was offered to the GB re. their politics? All I've heard is that they aren't allowed to express them whatsoever.

Dempsey · 14-12-2013 06:48PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

We must have a hefty fine coming in for the Mandela banner/display too. When will these people learn to just support the club the way we want them to?

The GB & their zealots need to learn when & how to pick their battles. They fell overselves to stick it to Celtic over the no political banner rule after the reprieve. What did they expect to happen after that? Common sense failed them completely then and in Fir Park.

They could have poignantly highlighted the hypocrisy of a no political banners in stadiums rule whilst UEFA celebrated the life of Mandela. You dont need Bobby Sands & William Wallace posters to do that.

LiamoSail wrote: »

Those seven fines though, that includes the dida incident a few years back, hardly the GB's fault

I'd disagree also about the common sense. While I don't always agree with their actions, to dismiss them as lacking common sense is lazy IMO. They're a well organised group, who's controversial actions are a result of their strong political views, which they are too stubborn to compromise on, as oppose to a lack of common sense

I didnt say it was nor did I imply it. The fact of the matter is that Celtic are unable to properly control their fans in the eyes of UEFA.

Carroller · 14-12-2013 07:00PM

Going from today alone, relationship between the fans and the board are diminishing!

LiamoSail · 14-12-2013 07:11PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

What compromise was offered to the GB re. their politics? All I've heard is that they aren't allowed to express them whatsoever.

I wasn't referring to them being offered a compromise. My point referred to their stubborness in going ahead with the display at home to Milan, despite the hassle a few days previous to that over the similar display

eire4 · 14-12-2013 07:36PM

PauloMN wrote: »

Ambrose's mistake I read elsewhere. Becoming all too usual now. Believe Izzy is having a good game.

Agree with you on Izzy. he was very good today. He really looks like he is back to his best now. Man of the match for me today. Disagree on Ambrose though. In general I feel he has been very good this season although his mistake today was terrible and almost cost us a goal.

Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

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