The Game By Neil strauss

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 08:47AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Well I did say some women go on with that stuff, In my own case, since about the age of 14, it's for positive male attention. And I make no apologies for that! Dressing to impress other women is alien to me.

You've been criticising men who seem to have the ultimate aim of sex ( and to an extent so would I , your own fun should come first), but the ultimate aim of positive male attention is also fairly sad and suggests you aren't content and happy as you are. But i'd be fairly non judgemental about these things, it doesn't bother me why people do what they do.

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 09:18AM

April O Neill II wrote: »

So, is it learning them, or bringing them out in yourself? Which?

It's both, it's learning to express your natural personality and allowing it to flourish and it's learning the rhythm and patterns of flirting with women internally so its completely natural and fluid.

For example through experience it you learn either consciously or subconsciously not to ask too many questions in the first 5 minutes or so before she becomes attracted. Make statements instead, usually also you need to do 90% of the talking.before she is attracted. This conversation should be playful and fun with lots of teasing and verbal sparring. Often times she will test you by saying something to bring your confidence down, like " I bet you say this to all the girls" or some other cheeky comment. You pass this test by being completely unphased and not getting defensive.

In response to this " Do you say this to all the girls?" would be " yea, you are the 984th tonight".

She will become more attracted then. Once she is attracted she will contribute more to the conversation and the conversational ratio will shift to about 50:50. This is when you can really get to know each other and build a genuine comnection and find out what there is about her that you like.

Another thing you learn is that before she is attracted to you it is best not to do anything she says or even answer her questions directly.

So if she asks you your age make her guess, if she asks you to do something smallish for her you could tell her to give you a genuine compliment first or tell her to say pretty please, then when she says that tell her to say pretty please with a cherry on top. These are just examples, not the best examples I might add. But the key is do no jump through her hoops, take the hoop off her and make her jump through it, figuritively speaking.

It's incredible how consistent this principle works across all women. Say a woman fancies you early on, and she tells you to do something, like fetch her jacket, , you will actually see the sparkle of attraction in her eye die out. She doesn't know even know why, but the simple reason is she told you what to do and you complied.

Many people won't like or agree with this, but this is how it works whether you like it or not.

Heckler · 08-12-2013 09:41AM

The cringe in this thread is toe curling...

Czarcasm · 08-12-2013 09:49AM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

It's both, it's learning to express your natural personality and allowing it to flourish and it's learning the rhythm and patterns of flirting with women internally so its completely natural and fluid.

For example through experience it you learn either consciously or subconsciously not to ask too many questions in the first 5 minutes or so before she becomes attracted. Make statements instead, usually also you need to do 90% of the talking.before she is attracted. This conversation should be playful and fun with lots of teasing and verbal sparring. Often times she will test you by saying something to bring your confidence down, like " I bet you say this to all the girls" or some other cheeky comment. You pass this test by being completely unphased and not getting defensive.

In response to this " Do you say this to all the girls?" would be " yea, you are the 984th tonight".

She will become more attracted then. Once she is attracted she will contribute more to the conversation and the conversational ratio will shift to about 50:50. This is when you can really get to know each other and build a genuine comnection and find out what there is about her that you like.

Another thing you learn is that before she is attracted to you it is best not to do anything she says or even answer her questions directly.

So if she asks you your age make her guess, if she asks you to do something smallish for her you could tell her to give you a genuine compliment first or tell her to say pretty please, then when she says that tell her to say pretty please with a cherry on top. These are just examples, not the best examples I might add. But the key is do no jump through her hoops, take the hoop off her and make her jump through it, figuritively speaking.

It's incredible how consistent this principle works across all women. Say a woman fancies you early on, and she tells you to do something, like fetch her jacket, and you do it, you will actually see the sparkle of attraction in her eye die out. She doesn't know even know why, but the simple reason is she.told you what to do and you complied.

Many people won't like or agree with this, but this is how it works whether you like it or not.

You're right, most people don't spend time making up such silly and elaborate scenarios in their heads. Teenagers play immature mind games like the above, but there's no excuse for an adult still at it, and no, PUA and set scenario shìte doesn't work, unless the other person is as immature and weak minded, easily manipulated as the protagonist. I was actually going to highlight the parts I thought were pure nonsense, but I'm struggling not to highlight your whole post tbh.

Just HOW successful if you don't mind my asking Vitalorange have these "techniques" been for you? And what age are you now and what age were you when you first started using these techniques on women?

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 09:54AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

You're right, most people don't spend time making up such silly and elaborate scenarios in their heads. Teenagers play immature mind games like the above, but there's no excuse for an adult still at it, and no, PUA and set scenario shìte doesn't work, unless the other person is as immature and weak minded, easily manipulated as the protagonist. I was actually going to highlight the parts I thought were pure nonsense, but I'm struggling not to highlight your whole post tbh.

Just HOW successful if you don't mind my asking Vitalorange have these "techniques" been for you? And what age are you now and what age were you when you first started using these techniques on women?

I wouldn't say these are techniques really. Its just how flirting works, this stuff is happening all the time. If you think there aren't patterns to human behaviour you are mistaken. I can tell you from experience what I've written most definitely works. Its social skills essentially broken down.

For example its better to be playful and fun when first approaching than being serious and monotone. If thats a technique then we all use techniques.

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 09:56AM

Heckler wrote: »

The cringe in this thread is toe curling...

you'll like this then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIU1WAdEu-g

Wibbs · 08-12-2013 10:44AM

Heckler wrote: »

The cringe in this thread is toe curling...

Yep IMHO The main reason PUA is a scam aren't the "routines" as such. Guys who are attractive socially and to women can come out with similar type things naturally. Stuff that if you wrote it down would cause the cringe.

The emphasis is on naturally. The guys flocking to these PUA sites/seminars/books are there precisely because they can't do it naturally, where even an "oh hello" can come across as creepy. At the extreme of these you have near social autistics, the ones without an "indoor voice" whose mere presence can cause the cringe. Because systems and linear thinking are more likely to appeal to such guys they buy into it lock stock and barrel. Some who are just a bit behind the curve socially will get some confidence and that's what they take from it. Others get in real deep.

Wibbs · 08-12-2013 10:48AM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

you'll like this then.

What? Attractive enough, well built guy talks to women in a fun, friendly manner and gets a response? Try the exact same thing with a dumpy guy with bad hair and a face like a bag of hammers. Different result.

08-12-2013 10:52AM

eah, same here. It was a beautiful relationship. Too bad it had to end the way it did... Its like... at first... we are so much in love. We feel that the whole world is revolving around us... you know what it's like to FEEL TOTALLY IN LOVE, don't you? We're like that (gesture back and forth). It's like, when we look at each other's eyes (look into her eyes)... we can see... into each other's soul... and we can SEE... and... FEEL... that love... burning within the both of us... warm and close enough to touch (touch her forearm, or a non-touching gesture towards her chest)

What the fcuk

thegreatgonzo · 08-12-2013 10:57AM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

Many people won't like or agree with this, but this is how it works whether you like it or not.

You are entitled to your opinion as everyone is. But I can only assume your experience of women is very limited if that's the conclusion you've come to.

Wibbs · 08-12-2013 11:11AM

bluewolf wrote: »

What the fcuk

I know. Sounds like something from a Mexican soap opera. Hey maybe this would work in Mexico?

No way in hell would it work on Irish women, or any woman who had a command of english and a functioning brain.

beano345 · 08-12-2013 11:17AM

"she tells you to do something, like fetch her jacket, , you will actually see the sparkle of attraction in her eye die out. She doesn't know even know why, but the simple reason is she told you what to do and you complied."

I've had this happen a few times usually their jacket or handbag which is well within their reach or some other menial task like get them a glass of water...surely to fcuk their not that helpless! If you refuse you usually get a "oh fine then" but if you comply your a doormat my question is why would any man want to be with a girl that, you see the term doormat thrown around here a lot on boards usually their own fault according to most,to me that's like dealing with a five year old child that has to be "put in its place" the last thing I want in a relationship is to be a babysitter..not attractive

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 11:25AM

beano345 wrote: »

"she tells you to do something, like fetch her jacket, , you will actually see the sparkle of attraction in her eye die out. She doesn't know even know why, but the simple reason is she told you what to do and you complied."

I've had this happen a few times usually their jacket or handbag which is well within their reach or some other menial task like get them a glass of water...surely to fcuk their not that helpless! If you refuse you usually get a "oh fine then" but if you comply your a doormat my question is why would any man want to be with a girl that, you see the term doormat thrown around here a lot on boards usually their own fault according to most,to me that's like dealing with a five year old child that has to be "put in its place" the last thing I want in a relationship is to be a babysitter..not attractive

I reckon it's a subconcious thing women do, I don't see the point in judging it. Its something I find that just happens early on when she is subconciously testing you imo.

It sends good signals when you pass, it tells her that you are used to being with women like her and that you can't easily be manipulated. You could argue that it could be an evolutionary strategy. But whether thats the case or not, it works. Pass the test and attraction grows, fail and it dissapears.

I find pretty much all women do this. Its kind of like when they see a guy who might be acting more confident than he actually is so they test him.

At first when you are awful with women they never test you because its so obvious you aren't a cool person. Then when you get better they test you more as they aren't so sure if you are actually a cool person or a clown trying to be a cool person. Then when you get really good you barely get tested at all because its so obvious you are a cool person.

beano345 · 08-12-2013 11:31AM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

I reckon it's a subconcious thing women do, I don't see the point in judging it. Its something I find that just happens early on when she is subconciously testing you imo.

It sends good signals when you pass, it tells her that you are used to being with women like her and that you can't easily be manipulated. You could argue that it could be an evolutionary strategy. But whether thats the case or not, it works. Pass the test and attraction grows, fail and it dissapears.

If they want to do tests then go back to school! The jacket scenario is a no win situation for a man! If a woman started that with me nowadays I'd be quickly picking up my own jacket and heading for the door...its childish

Czarcasm · 08-12-2013 11:34AM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

I wouldn't say these are techniques really. Its just how flirting works, this stuff is happening all the time. If you think there aren't patterns to human behaviour you are mistaken. I can tell you from experience what I've written most definitely works. Its social skills essentially broken down.

Vitallorange you're being taught how someone thinks you should interact with women. They're techniques, because they have an end goal, a strategy, and a method (albeit as most would say "method in the madness"). Of course there are patterns to human behaviour, but psychology isn't 100% correct all the time either, and placing your faith in bunkum pseudopsychology is an even worse idea.
I can tell you from experience, evidence presented in peer reviewed studies, and tireless hours of empirical research - that human beings were having sex long before PUA theory.

It's not just social skills broken down, it's social skills deconstructed and analysed in minute detail and packaged in such a way that they present people looking for answers, with the answers (or at least, what they think are the answers).

If you think there's anything natural about instructions on how to flirt, then it's easy to see why you're a prime candidate for this stuff, and while I have no doubt you think PUA works for you, that's not what I asked. I asked you how successful has it been for you personally? I know you've said in the thread that modern PUA methods are more focussed on improving ALL aspects of your life, but how successful have you personally been in using this method of self-improvement, and how successful are you with women in closing the deal?

And just as a show of how much I'm willing to entertain your theories, as Jeremy Kyle would say "That's anything from a kiss to sexual intercourse", so you've got a fair bit of leeway there.

For example its better to be playful and fun when first approaching than being serious and monotone. If thats a technique then we all use techniques.

Playful and fun sounds awfully immature and childlike and "look at me with the sun shining out my ass yet I don't believe a word of it!". I mean, really, how comatose do you think women are, or do you give them any credit all all for not being intelligent enough to see you coming a mile away?

Of course we all use techniques, I'll agree with you there, but PUA techniques are FAR more mechanical and dependent on every set scenario being "just so", not deviating from a pre-scripted encounter. Social skills though, are techniques that most people use in dealing with situations unfamiliar to them. Some people are good at this and adapt on the fly, some people are shìte at it, fcuk it up and get flustered and clam up. The only thing PUA does for them is make them more socially aware of themselves, it doesn't fix any underlying issues, it just plasters over them.

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 11:39AM

beano345 wrote: »

"she tells you to do something, like fetch her jacket, , you will actually see the sparkle of attraction in her eye die out. She doesn't know even know why, but the simple reason is she told you what to do and you complied."

I've had this happen a few times usually their jacket or handbag which is well within their reach or some other menial task like get them a glass of water...surely to fcuk their not that helpless! If you refuse you usually get a "oh fine then" but if you comply your a doormat my question is why would any man want to be with a girl that, you see the term doormat thrown around here a lot on boards usually their own fault according to most,to me that's like dealing with a five year old child that has to be "put in its place" the last thing I want in a relationship is to be a babysitter..not attractive

When she asks you to get her a glass of water just make fun of her, say "do you think im your servant, off you waddle" or "do you see those things hanging from your shoulders, use them" keep it light hearted.

beano345 · 08-12-2013 11:43AM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

When she asks you to get her a glass of water just make fun of her, say "do you think im your servant, off you waddle", keep it light hearted.

If I want a glass of water I get it myself,I dont know anyone who gets into a relationship to be a servant or put up with that nonsense

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 11:45AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Vitallorange you're being taught how someone thinks you should interact with women. They're techniques, because they have an end goal, a strategy, and a method (albeit as most would say "method in the madness"). Of course there are patterns to human behaviour, but psychology isn't 100% correct all the time either, and placing your faith in bunkum pseudopsychology is an even worse idea.
I can tell you from experience, evidence presented in peer reviewed studies, and tireless hours of empirical research - that human beings were having sex long before PUA theory.

It's not just social skills broken down, it's social skills deconstructed and analysed in minute detail and packaged in such a way that they present people looking for answers, with the answers (or at least, what they think are the answers).

If you think there's anything natural about instructions on how to flirt, then it's easy to see why you're a prime candidate for this stuff, and while I have no doubt you think PUA works for you, that's not what I asked. I asked you how successful has it been for you personally? I know you've said in the thread that modern PUA methods are more focussed on improving ALL aspects of your life, but how successful have you personally been in using this method of self-improvement, and how successful are you with women in closing the deal?

And just as a show of how much I'm willing to entertain your theories, as Jeremy Kyle would say "That's anything from a kiss to sexual intercourse", so you've got a fair bit of leeway there.

Playful and fun sounds awfully immature and childlike and "look at me with the sun shining out my ass yet I don't believe a word of it!". I mean, really, how comatose do you think women are, or do you give them any credit all all for not being intelligent enough to see you coming a mile away?

Of course we all use techniques, I'll agree with you there, but PUA techniques are FAR more mechanical and dependent on every set scenario being "just so", not deviating from a pre-scripted encounter. Social skills though, are techniques that most people use in dealing with situations unfamiliar to them. Some people are good at this and adapt on the fly, some people are shìte at it, fcuk it up and get flustered and clam up. The only thing PUA does for them is make them more socially aware of themselves, it doesn't fix any underlying issues, it just plasters over them.

Its been very successful for me. If being playful and having fun is childish then so be it, im childish so.

I don't use anything that is pre scripted. I am completely natural and deal with whatever happens on a moment to moment basis.

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 11:49AM

beano345 wrote: »

If I want a glass of water I get it myself,I dont know anyone who gets into a relationship to be a servant or put up with that nonsense

Neither do I.

beano345 · 08-12-2013 11:52AM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

Neither do I.

Then why would you entertain someone who tries to?

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 11:56AM

beano345 wrote: »

Then why would you entertain someone who tries to?

I don't do what she says, to me thats not entertaining her. But afterwards if she has something about her that I really like I'll give her a chance. This is so common.that it would be hard to find an attractive womam who doesn't do these things. It seems to be part of their nature.

Balaclava1991 · 08-12-2013 11:58AM

These back door pleasure routines never fail to work.:D

Most women are hesitant to do anal because they are scared it will hurt and think that it is immoral and dirty.

But when you use the right hypnotic language and commands and weasel phrases cloaked within innocent sentences you switch off her resistance unconsciously and switch on her desire for anal pleasure.

EXAMPLE 1

"Do you like surprises? I think it's great how the best things in life are unexpected. What was the best surprise you've ever gotten? And I'm not talking about a gift necesarrily, I mean just something that happened that was so good, but was totally unexpected."

(Let her talk, get her in state)

"Yeah, I can totally hear/feel/see what you mean. Isn't it just great how the things in life that just sneak up behind you unexpectedly? I mean, there are things you know are coming and you can see them, like, "Oh, it's Friday, I'm getting paid today." Now that's in front of you, in your future, but then the best things in life, the ones that can make you FEEL FULFILLED and FEEL SO GOOD FROM YOUR BOTTOM to your top have a tendency to sneak up behind you and COME FROM YOUR REAR. And INSIDE YOU ASS yourself, "This is so great! How can something this great (point to schlong) just take me from behind and surprise me like this?" I mean, that facinates me, take a second and think about how the greatest things (point to schlong) you have ever felt took you from the rear...think about that. It's sexually facinating if you really THINK ABOUT IT and TAKE IT ALL IN ANALlytically."

"You know what else in interesting? Is how simple words that I say can make you feel so good. (remember you have been speed seducing her for a while by now). It's like you feel these things (point to schlong) COMING IN YOUR REAR, ENTERING YOUR REAR, being whispered to you, and it can make you feel so good. Don't you find that when I talk like that, when I DO IT, you can't resist and you just OPEN YOUR REAR and LET IT SLIDE INSIDE YOU, hearing those words and feeling so wonderful?"

EXAMPLE 2

"You know, I have this other friend, Rod, isn't it funny how I can have so many friends named Rod?

At any rate, he owns this dingy little steakhouse on the other side of town, called "Rod's Meat." Anyways I was talking to his wife the other day over some drinks and she is kind of the manager of the place. But she was telling me how terrible her job was...so routine, so boring. Everyweek she counts the money, writes the paychecks to the employees and supervises the food shipments. Well, she was saying that her job was getting so boring, that she couldn't take it anymore.

Well, she got some relief one week when the meat shipment came in, and it was bigger than usual, and she couldn't get it the same way she had been. She had to totally change the process, and she told me, "Sometimes you have to BREAK ROUTINE, and DO IT DIFFERENTLY." She said that she had to get the meat in the backdoor, where she had never gotten it before, and you know it's funny, but that little break with routine, something as simple as when you GET THE MEAT (point to schlong) IN THE BACKDOOR, can make you FEEL SO GOOD.

Course, it was a little harder for her at first, since she had never done it that way before, but once she got started, and past the first part of it, as the process went on, she felt so good to have done it differently."

Try these routines and you will not be disappointed.

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 11:59AM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

This back door pleasure routines never fail to work.:D

Most women are hesitant to do anal because it hurts.

But when you use the right hypnotic language and commands and weasel phrases cloaked within innocent sentences you switch off her resistance unconsciously and switch on her desire for anal pleasure.

EXAMPLE 1

"Do you like surprises? I think it's great how the best things in life are unexpected. What was the best surprise you've ever gotten? And I'm not talking about a gift necesarrily, I mean just something that happened that was so good, but was totally unexpected."

(Let her talk, get her in state)

"Yeah, I can totally hear/feel/see what you mean. Isn't it just great how the things in life that just sneak up behind you unexpectedly? I mean, there are things you know are coming and you can see them, like, "Oh, it's Friday, I'm getting paid today." Now that's in front of you, in your future, but then the best things in life, the ones that can make you FEEL FULFILLED and FEEL SO GOOD FROM YOUR BOTTOM to your top have a tendency to sneak up behind you and COME FROM YOUR REAR. And INSIDE YOU ASS yourself, "This is so great! How can something this great (point to schlong) just take me from behind and surprise me like this?" I mean, that facinates me, take a second and think about how the greatest things (point to schlong) you have ever felt took you from the rear...think about that. It's sexually facinating if you really THINK ABOUT IT and TAKE IT ALL IN ANALlytically."

"You know what else in interesting? Is how simple words that I say can make you feel so good. (remember you have been speed seducing her for a while by now). It's like you feel these things (point to schlong) COMING IN YOUR REAR, ENTERING YOUR REAR, being whispered to you, and it can make you feel so good. Don't you find that when I talk like that, when I DO IT, you can't resist and you just OPEN YOUR REAR and LET IT SLIDE INSIDE YOU, hearing those words and feeling so wonderful?"

EXAMPLE 2

"You know, I have this other friend, Rod, isn't it funny how I can have so many friends named Rod?

At any rate, he owns this dingy little steakhouse on the other side of town, called "Rod's Meat." Anyways I was talking to his wife the other day over some drinks and she is kind of the manager of the place. But she was telling me how terrible her job was...so routine, so boring. Everyweek she counts the money, writes the paychecks to the employees and supervises the food shipments. Well, she was saying that her job was getting so boring, that she couldn't take it anymore.

Well, she got some relief one week when the meat shipment came in, and it was bigger than usual, and she couldn't get it the same way she had been. She had to totally change the process, and she told me, "Sometimes you have to BREAK ROUTINE, and DO IT DIFFERENTLY." She said that she had to get the meat in the backdoor, where she had never gotten it before, and you know it's funny, but that little break with routine, something as simple as when you GET THE MEAT (point to schlong) IN THE BACKDOOR, can make you FEEL SO GOOD.

Course, it was a little harder for her at first, since she had never done it that way before, but once she got started, and past the first part of it, as the process went on, she felt so good to have done it differently."

Try these routines and you will not be disappointed.

I find it hard to believe you actually use this stuff.

its funny if nothing else.

beano345 · 08-12-2013 12:00PM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

I don't do what she says, to me thats not entertaining her. But afterwards if she has something about her that I really like I'll give her a chance. This is so common.that it would be hard to find an attractive womam who doesn't do these things. It seems to be part of their nature.

So much for strong independent women so

thegreatgonzo · 08-12-2013 12:01PM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

I don't do what she says, to me thats not entertaining her. But afterwards if she has something about her that I really like I'll give her a chance. This is so common.that it would be hard to find an attractive womam who doesn't do these things. It seems to be part of their nature.

I don't know what kind of women you are meeting but I don't know any girl who asks a feckin stranger to get her jacket. It sounds like teenage disco stuff to be honest.

Balaclava1991 · 08-12-2013 12:03PM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

I find it hard to believe you actually use this stuff.

its funny if nothing else.

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 12:04PM

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

I don't know what kind of women you are meeting but I don't know any girl who asks a feckin stranger to get her jacket. It sounds like teenage disco stuff to be honest.

This is besides the point. Forget the specific example. They often try to get you to something for them initially. Like get her a glass of water, or get her something that is closer to her like her jacket or something.

Czarcasm · 08-12-2013 12:07PM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

Its been very successful for me. If being playful and having fun is childish then so be it, im childish so.

Vitallorange I can assure you I'm not trying to flirt with you or test you by challenging your assertions about the success of PUA methodology for you. I'm merely asking that you should be able to quantify the results of the method you use.

The whole language of PUA, and this is nothing against you personally Vitallorange, but it's very "American", very cheesy, pseudoscientific. Americans do love their positivity and brotherhood and all the rest of it, so it's quite easy for ideologies and sub-cultures like PUA to gather momentum and have an audience, and a big enough target (Jerry Springer and Judge Judy participants come to mind tbh), but over here in Ireland - we really don't buy into that sort of "in touch with ourselves" philosophy so much, which is why PUA is completely alien to us, because it's more of a cultural concept than it is a psychologically provable and quantifiable method.

Saying "it works" is no proof that it actually does work. You need to prove it works, or at least present some evidence that the theory has merit, because from what I can see, all PUA does is cover over the cracks and give dull people what they think is a jedi cloak of invincibility.

thegreatgonzo · 08-12-2013 12:08PM

Vitaliorange wrote: »

This is besides the point. Forget the specific example. They often try to get you to something for them initially. Like get her a glass of water, or get her something that is closer to her like her jacket or something.

I still don't know anyone who does that.

Vitaliorange · 08-12-2013 12:11PM

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

I still don't know anyone who does that.

You're saying you don't know any women who have asked men to things for them that they could and should do themselves?

The Game By Neil strauss

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